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Unread 3 Aug 2007, 16:11   #1
Zoro
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Make Terran Better!!!!!

I play terran everytime I play - I just like the idea of big ships with lots of armour blah blah
I think terran should be made better. Only 5 planets in the top 100 says it all really.
Next round I am even considering ditching my favoured race for - well any of the other races (no preference) cos they all better than terran.

Terrans have been made even worse from last round because even though last round zik stole before harpies shot (which was crazy btw Monroe) at least the thiefs died when stealing leaving the Zik with a little extra value and a load of useless harpies. Most importantly the thiefs died which meant they had to be built again which made there less thiefs in the universe etc etc.
This round Ziks shoot before harpies (wouldn't u think the terran ships creators would have managed to produce a fi that fires quicker)
Zik been main problem again this round BUT terran vunerable against every race (apart from ETD) in some way or another.
In attack Terran is slow but easily counterable (especially ingal) with no lose defence ships.

The point is Terran for a long time has been a tough race to play - Without a sinificant improvement I can't see any serious PA players trying them ever again.

Give Terran a shot at winning for once
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Unread 4 Aug 2007, 11:41   #2
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

I think Terran might benefit more from having a low eta (ie, FI or CO) attack fleet, rather than their current DE. Or BA. Sure, it might be harder to fake with them (ie, 2 DE fleets and 1 BA fleet with roughly the same numbers), but there is less need to scream down to Siege weapons; rather persuing ETA and roid researches to get a better start might be better.

Should spice them up a little bit, anyway.
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Unread 4 Aug 2007, 12:40   #3
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
The point is Terran for a long time has been a tough race to play - Without a sinificant improvement I can't see any serious PA players trying them ever again.

Give Terran a shot at winning for once
A terran won round 19.

What comes to terrans defensively, JBG had a good point somewhere how it'd work. Something along the frames of allowing terran to remain as characteristics "slow, heavy armor" but compensating it with ease of piling flak, in practise, reducing the amount of ship classes terrans have to build. If you have two defence ships of the same class, it's already harder to hit through even if you get to shoot before them.
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Unread 4 Aug 2007, 14:45   #4
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

I'd be quite careful about doing something like that though; i can imagine it quickly becoming quite powerful in short order - especially if it was in a class or classes that could be used to escort or otherwise assist an attacking fleet. Eg, with current stats, having two (eg) fighters that targeted useful things in the usual terran way would be vastly superior than having two cruisers (for example).

On another note, wouldnt such a development (ie, flak defending ships) have more of an impact on good initiative races - namely Cath and Xan who rely on stunning/killing their enemies before they fire - rather than other races like Terran and to a lesser extent Zik which are more inclined to take the hits and press on anyway?
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Unread 4 Aug 2007, 15:14   #5
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

Regarding the first note, it depends on what ships target them, and what attack fleets they're ment to stop.

Second, yes. Flak defence ships for terrans would have impact against good initiative races, practically any race that shoots before these terran defenders. At the moment, this races include f.ex zikonian, eitrades, xandathrii, terran, cathaar.

Edit. Oh god I'm a dimwit, I just listed all races.
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Unread 4 Aug 2007, 15:55   #6
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Edit. Oh god I'm a dimwit, I just listed all races.
You said it! .

Terran ships need not always fire last. Indeed, atm the Wyvern fires before quite a few ships. Also, Zik (and some ETD) ships tend to have quite alot more armour generally than Cathaar or Xan - and with this combat engine that's extremely significant. Things like that definately need to be considered more carefully than they have been in the past if you were going to persue such a move - which is my major point.
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Unread 6 Aug 2007, 12:54   #7
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

Was unaware that Terran managed to win round 19 - my post is though more in relation to the past 2 nightmare rounds in which terran has had it's worst performances.
People mention faking - sending out two de fleets as BS and a BS fleet might sound good but - what race do u fake
Cath just sit there with their spiders (cos there's no reason why they'd move them)
Terran have drakes and no lose wyvern (yes they may be on attack - but they may not)
Zik have Rogues who might as well say and fight as they win both ways unless tremdously over powered - they collect BS and De
Xan can't be faked as Banshees (if home) would wipe out a fake BS fleet)
Etd can't be faked (they tend to have brokers out) - but are usually clever enough to know this so get defence to cover de and collect the BS with their rangers otherwise

The only way Terran can roid is really overpowering opposition ie. cath (spiders) Xan (spectres) Zik (pirates)
But as I said these attacks are predicable and easily ruined (especially ingal) AND where's the fun and tactics that used to make Terran an interesting race to play?
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Unread 6 Aug 2007, 18:24   #8
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

One can almost fake everything!
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Unread 6 Aug 2007, 19:06   #9
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Cath just sit there with their spiders (cos there's no reason why they'd move them)
there are a lot cath without many scorpions and spiders are easily overpowered by ter. So it's easy to fake there
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Terran have drakes and no lose wyvern (yes they may be on attack - but they may not)
there are some terrans with few drakes
just check that their wyverns are away and have fun faking
they usually run their de due to your faked wyverns
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Zik have Rogues who might as well say and fight as they win both ways unless tremdously over powered - they collect BS and De
I'm sure a zik will leave his rogues at home when he awaits your dragons
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Xan can't be faked as Banshees (if home) would wipe out a fake BS fleet)
well attacking xan with de isn't realy clever, here you're right
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Etd can't be faked (they tend to have brokers out) - but are usually clever enough to know this so get defence to cover de and collect the BS with their rangers otherwise
if they don't have many rangers it might look like a BS fleet and why are Etd cleverer than other races when it comes down to organizing def?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
The only way Terran can roid is really overpowering opposition ie. cath (spiders)
which is very easy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Xan (spectres)
which is very easy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
Zik (pirates)
as i said before, fake the BS and send DE so that the Zik runs his Rogue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoro
But as I said these attacks are predicable and easily ruined (especially ingal)
oh yeah there 100 times easier to cover than .. cath

to sum it up:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DunkelGraf
One can almost fake everything!
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Unread 7 Aug 2007, 06:11   #10
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Things like that definately need to be considered more carefully than they have been in the past if you were going to persue such a move - which is my major point.
Why break off the good habit of testing things just for the sake of testing without further consideration?
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Unread 7 Aug 2007, 17:40   #11
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

im the exact same, every round ive played, ive been terran, but this round ive found it incredibly hard to land any attacks, and i find myself getting roided by everyone. Personally id love to see the Pegasus and the Banshee have equal inits as well as potentially the harpy and the thief, this would make it so that a terran would still want to mass these ships, but not overpower them to the extent where only a few would be needed to keep away incs. it would turn into a match of chicken where only a banshee heavy fleet would risk hitting a terran with a decent amount of pegs.
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Unread 7 Aug 2007, 22:00   #12
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

I went ter this round for the first time but i dont think they are all that bad. Defensively i thought they wernt that bad. Thieves, banshee & (to a lesser extent) dragons have caused a few problems but phoenix's rule, harpies love xan fr and wvys/drake can own DE.

Offensively however they have been severely lacking which is pretty much down to rangers imho. Not only are rangers one of two, zero loss and eta -1 anti BS, but they steal wyvs which make the majority of etds unprofitable to attack with de. When you add this to the lack of bountiful cats it has pretty much made my de fleet obsolete for the last couple of weeks. Infact i would probably have stopped building any except that pegs are our only anti fi, which has been a shame imho as both brokers and spiders arnt much of a match against my DE.

Also pirates haven't particularly helped, while imho they've been far from good anti bs, but the fact that they steal scorps has severely limited another possible target for me to attack. Again when you add this to the lack for bountiful ters, were pretty much limited to only attacking xans with bs. While i realise that the zik problem is always an issue, the fact that they are in an attack fleet means that they will haved picked up scorps over time.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 09:44   #13
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

Yes I agree they're not all that bad - but they're not very good (and that's the problem)
In someways terran would be the perfect support planet covering co and de incomming with ease and Xan frigs and etd BS. Infact I have found myself this round doing this rather than attacking. I've found more fun in covering my rl friend giving him a shot at top 50 than actually playing properly myself.

yes you can fake anything - In the past I have been a master faker - just all the detective work needed to check if this fleets out or what could he have built? or are they fake def etc etc makes each attack quite a challenge.
I mean look at cath
You build lots and lots of cruisers and u attack someone with lots of roids and very little anti cruiser - if they get defence u do a simple calc - do u freeze all the def? Yes = roids No = maybe roid (depends what u lose)
Cruisers target all the ships that attack them.
It's cut and dry.
Terran BS and de have multiple ships that no lose target them making each landing painful.
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 10:13   #14
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Llandogertrow
Not only are rangers one of two, zero loss and eta -1 anti BS
The ranger is definately a puzzle to me in the round's statistics (well, granted it was the same last round too). It's definately, by far, the best steal ship there is, and against terran battleships, it's unarguably the best ship too. Combined with eitrades salvage bonus, it's simply (ridiculously?) awesome, not for terran battleship planets though!
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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 10:45   #15
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

TER is a really hard place to be right now. Its reflected in the charts as well.

1. Most expensive ships.
2. Ship stats that leave it wide open to wreckage, ie - Harpy and Zik FR.
3. TER can't even get off the mark until late in the research stakes. DE before it can even go roiding..
4. ETD has damaged the long term TER ops. The once fabled superiority (perhaps the only saving grace of being TER crushed to pulp).
5. ETA and research that kills TER
BS / CR ETA over 90 days = @98 Missions (x3 possible fleets =194).
FI/ CO ETA over 90 days = @154 Mission (x3 possible fleets =462)
FR/ DE ETA over 90 days = @120 missions (x3 possible fleets =360)

Lowest number of viable strikes, and long research means that even that theoretical 194 missions is cut to a lower number. All in, TER is in trouble, and needs some changes to turn it round, IMHO..

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Unread 8 Aug 2007, 14:43   #16
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Re: Make Terran Better!!!!!

A Terran's attack might be easier to cover defensively than other races - its armor means it is still not easy to do.
My main problem offensively was that I could not often pick 2 targets, while others could. I used De fleets. To get full cap (even without defence) I often could not use 2 fleets. I haven't noticed any Terran Bs fleets where they used only part of their fleet either.
The main weakness however is Terran defence rather than its offence i.m.o. Terran defence is awsome for defending (others) against certain specific classes. But anyone who attacks you will have a fleet that cannot be defended by those awsome Terran ships. You'll need defence from races that have sucky defensive ships. Only Thiefs are usefull against Xan Fi (but they are slower), only Tycoons and Roaches against Zik Fr (slower), anything against Cr gets stunned (although a Xan could provide nice flak for your own Chimera's). Only Terran Bs incomming can be easily defended (it's Terran).
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