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Unread 14 Apr 2008, 23:39   #51
Monroe
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
stats can be judged by top10 planets eor imo.

since you can end top100 with all races no matter how shit the stats are for that race, while u cant end top10 ( easily ) with a shit race...
I would have to agree with JBG stats have to be judged looking at a wide range of variables. t10 can only tell you which race was most likely to win it all, not if they were necessarily balanced. For example the stats I did in r23 had every race in the t10 yet I don't feel they were well balanced, it just showed that it was possible to contend for a win under the right conditions with any race. You have to look at a composite of the t10, t100, t300, and even the t500 to get a real balance. My preferred stat for looking at total race balance is the variance of each race from it's overall universe percentage. This gives a much better indicator of how any race is doing. If you look at this statistic for the t10, t100 and t300 it gives a pretty good indication of the overall balance of the stats.

Clearly at least so far this round cath seems to be the race to win with, but that does not in and of itself mean the stats are out of balance, we have to give it the full 7 weeks before we will know.
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Unread 15 Apr 2008, 13:51   #52
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
The percieved strength of the respective races is the determining factor in what the top 5% of the players chooses. It's these players that make up the bulk of the top 10 and top 50, and thus these players that decide, before the round has even begun, what race will be overrepresented in the top 10 and top 50.
Self-fulfilling prophecy? Is there a reason to assume that these top players systematically make errors in their choice, hence causing bias on the top side? If one race was actually stronger than the perceived strongest race, the odds are someone would notice it, and appear on the top - this sort of a reaction might be escalated by the fact that the majority would have chosen "wrong".

A lot of the perceived strength is based on strict calculations and analysis, which is based upon rounds of experience. What I'm trying to say, that, if the top5% find a single race to be, by a long shot, stronger than the other races, the statistics should probably have seen some revamping.
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Unread 15 Apr 2008, 14:06   #53
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Re: Final stats of round 26

You mean just like everyone failed to notice the strength of XP for 5 rounds?
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Unread 16 Apr 2008, 15:19   #54
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Self-fulfilling prophecy? Is there a reason to assume that these top players systematically make errors in their choice, hence causing bias on the top side? If one race was actually stronger than the perceived strongest race, the odds are someone would notice it, and appear on the top - this sort of a reaction might be escalated by the fact that the majority would have chosen "wrong".

A lot of the perceived strength is based on strict calculations and analysis, which is based upon rounds of experience. What I'm trying to say, that, if the top5% find a single race to be, by a long shot, stronger than the other races, the statistics should probably have seen some revamping.
Let's test this argument of yours. Let's say Xanda is in actuality the best race. Now let's say most top players go cath, which is xandas weak point. Will the top players who went xanda end up having a good round or not? What are their chances of getting a top10 finish under these circumstances?

So maybe a lot of good people went cath. Now let's say a few good players went terran, who would be good against cath yet a bit weaker overall. Now will those terrans end up in the top10? Or will the amount of good caths "swamp" them?

Furthermore how good a race is for a top player might not necessarily reflect how good it is in general. Top players have better access to defence and often play a lot more selfishly. They tend to pick quite aggressive races which enable them to get plenty of roids while relying on defleeching to keep their roids safe. This obviously is not an option that is available to most players, and will also skew the results.
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Unread 16 Apr 2008, 23:32   #55
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
Let's test this argument of yours. Let's say Xanda is in actuality the best race. Now let's say most top players go cath, which is xandas weak point. Will the top players who went xanda end up having a good round or not? What are their chances of getting a top10 finish under these circumstances?
Okay. You tested my argument.

Let me test yours.

You assumed that xandathrii was the best race. And that cathaar was it's weak spot. The few tops that did not go cathaar but xandathrii instead will thrive, because in fact cathaar is an utterly hopeless race, and the people who went cathaar did a massive error. Now, when you're a "top" player (hereby defining a top player as one that goes for high spots realistically) thinking of your race choice, you tend to accomodate the possible disaster scenario. I do.

Here's the question I had.

Quote:
Is there a reason to assume that these top players systematically make errors in their choice
Here's the answer you gave

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun
Let's test this argument of yours. Let's say Xanda is in actuality the best race. Now let's say most top players go cath, which is xandas weak point
Most top players have made a systematic error. Reverting to my previous argument about cathaar being the ultimate walkover race for every other race except xandathrii. What are the chances of the top players who went cathaar finishing top10 under these circumstances?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
You mean just like everyone failed to notice the strength of XP for 5 rounds?
haven't played the last 5 rounds very active. If people have consistently failed to evaluate it still after what happened around rounds 16 to 20, it's rather strange.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun
Furthermore how good a race is for a top player might not necessarily reflect how good it is in general
Yeah. But generally, you can say, that if a given race has a very marginal foothold in top 250, it's a likely failure race no matter what you do. The universe isn't big enough to reside a defense soak amount high enough to twist around the 250.
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Unread 16 Apr 2008, 23:33   #56
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Essentially, what you are saying, sounds like "Yes, no matter what kind of a set of statistics you sort out, the outcome is mainly determined by what the top perceives". Even if so, there must be some common factor that explains the perception of the mentioned group. It can't be exogenic from the statistics themself.
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Unread 16 Apr 2008, 23:35   #57
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
haven't played the last 5 rounds very active. If people have consistently failed to evaluate it still after what happened around rounds 16 to 20, it's rather strange.
People have consistenly failed to evaluate it until someone pointed it out. But since stats tend to change every round, there's no one to point it out, so errors in judgement like the one made of XP can be made for stats as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
Essentially, what you are saying, sounds like "Yes, no matter what kind of a set of statistics you sort out, the outcome is mainly determined by what the top perceives". Even if so, there must be some common factor that explains the perception of the mentioned group. It can't be exogenic from the statistics themself.
The common factor is human observational bias. Events in the past (such as for example XP) have shown that people are incapable of objectively determining what the best strategy is.
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Unread 17 Apr 2008, 02:03   #58
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Somebody needs to learn how an allegory works...
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Unread 17 Apr 2008, 05:33   #59
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Let's just wait until round end is closer.. when all alliance have been under real planet hits instead of this peaceful roiding period what some alliances are still experiencing.
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Unread 17 Apr 2008, 09:25   #60
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
The common factor is human observational bias. Events in the past (such as for example XP) have shown that people are incapable of objectively determining what the best strategy is.
I'm still pretty much bound to believe that the observation bias isn't totally unrelated to how the stats are.
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Unread 17 Apr 2008, 12:33   #61
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
People have consistenly failed to evaluate it until someone pointed it out. But since stats tend to change every round, there's no one to point it out, so errors in judgement like the one made of XP can be made for stats as well.
I think the primary reason why a lot more mistakes are made over XP is the fact that it's fairly overlooked. You rarely see people posting threads on strategy forums on the subject of "How does this round's XP formulae affect score accumulation" but there are one or more for each round's stats. Similar issues may arise when there's a dramatic change in the combat engine making the "environment" new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
Somebody needs to learn how an allegory works...
It might be that I'm just slow, but I'm totally failing to see an allegory there - if you're trying to point out to a previous round, it's possible I've missed it.

What I am saying, is, that while alliance enforcement and such will have an impact on the racial scenario, it's still pretty bluntly obvious that if a race has dramatically little representatives in the top 500, or that the top10 is swamped full of the race, the stats are very likely to be inherently unbalanced, rather than it all being simply a follow-up from the top players' choices. It's not very likely that anyone would have won round 13 as a non-zikonian player, even if the amount of zikonians chosen by the "top" would have been smaller (although, zikonian was the strongest counter for itself that round, so it might have even escalated, if possible).

Quote:
Let's test this argument of yours. Let's say Xanda is in actuality the best race. Now let's say most top players go cath, which is xandas weak point. Will the top players who went xanda end up having a good round or not? What are their chances of getting a top10 finish under these circumstances?
Xandathrii is the strongest race. But cathaar is perceived as the strongest race? Is xandathrii actually the strongest race, if cathaar is such a very strong counter to it? Assuming so, cathaar would have to be very weak towards the other races. This might imply, that cathaars will struggle to grow large enough to actually pose a threat to xandathrii (round 13 had very little cathaars in the high end of the table, even though it could have been theoretically viable against zikonian. it was just everyone's favourite gankspot). I don't really remember a round when a xandathrii would have won though, this might well have to do with the EMP mechanics and the cathaar being, inherently, in the current race setup, the sort of race which is picked a lot to "score". (Now, this should be worked on, shouldn't it, because I don't think anyone wants the race choice to be characterized by "ideal race for defence soaking and three-fleeting", "ideal race for the rest of the people", and so on).
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Unread 19 Apr 2008, 06:57   #62
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Winner rnd25, elviz, xandathrii...

And allegory is (according to Meriam-Webster):
1: the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence; also : an instance (as in a story or painting) of such expression
2: a symbolic representation
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Unread 19 Apr 2008, 12:23   #63
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
Winner rnd25, elviz, xandathrii...

And allegory is (according to Meriam-Webster):
1: the expression by means of symbolic fictional figures and actions of truths or generalizations about human existence; also : an instance (as in a story or painting) of such expression
2: a symbolic representation
Yeah, that's what I said I've missed a few rounds.

I know what an allegory is. I'm just missing the one in your texts. I mean, it's pretty easy to see what George Orwell refers to, but I'm totally lost trying to figure what you're trying to express through planetarion ship statistics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tietäjä
It might be that I'm just slow, but I'm totally failing to see an allegory there

Last edited by Ultimate Newbie; 19 Apr 2008 at 17:27.
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Unread 19 Apr 2008, 17:28   #64
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Keep it Civil ffs... this is Strategy - a happy and friendly place.

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Unread 19 Apr 2008, 20:26   #65
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Re: Final stats of round 26

have to agree with ultimate newbie. Anyways round isn't over yet.. and tbh there's plenty of us rising in ranks atm to challenge caths dominance in the end.. it just takes longer when yer in war... but hidden prod is here now in increasing effects as roid amounts grow.. and emp has to freeze almost all or prepare to take massive dmg... team up's are cool but their slow way to grow after u get roided down to almost nothing in one day as you need to ally def aswell... Personally I think it will balance out in the end race wise.. maybe i'm gullible but that's my firm belief atm it's all about player not their race.
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Unread 19 Apr 2008, 20:44   #66
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Re: Final stats of round 26

If you want to see the direction the rankings are tending you should look at this.
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Unread 22 Apr 2008, 09:32   #67
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
If you want to see the direction the rankings are tending you should look at this.
yes, and as u can all see, ziks are climbing like crazy..and with them being close to impossible to roid...they will dominate top10 / 50 / 100 badly eor.

sigh
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Unread 22 Apr 2008, 10:36   #68
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
yes, and as u can all see, ziks are climbing like crazy..and with them being close to impossible to roid...they will dominate top10 / 50 / 100 badly eor.

sigh
What, in particular, is making Ziks hard to roid?
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Unread 22 Apr 2008, 10:37   #69
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Re: Final stats of round 26

47 caths, 52 ziks, 66 xans, 21 etds, 13 terrans compose the t200 size planets at this point. Considering the low number of etds, the number of scanners who went either cath or terran and the fact scarcely any top players went terran I don't think they're too far off at the minute. I do think you're always going to have a few caths out ahead on the top ranks in any round cath is even vaguely playable for the average guy though.
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Unread 22 Apr 2008, 10:47   #70
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
What, in particular, is making Ziks hard to roid?
Presumably the fact that any decent Zik player by now has a sizeable stolen fleet, closing the gaps, making them hard to roid.
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Unread 22 Apr 2008, 11:08   #71
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Re: Final stats of round 26

the stats are boring and are the main reson i didnt sign up so thx sun_tzu for motivating me to quit this stupid game
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Unread 22 Apr 2008, 12:27   #72
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by robban1
the stats are boring and are the main reson i didnt sign up so thx sun_tzu for motivating me to quit this stupid game
This isn't really a meaningful criticism (especially seeing as you seem to say it every round) but I do know what you mean. Personally I really dislike multi-targetting as it makes faking extremely difficult at best and increases the difficulty of roiding top planets without increasing viable defensive options for alliances.
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Unread 22 Apr 2008, 12:53   #73
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
What, in particular, is making Ziks hard to roid?
The fact that they were V hard to roid from start off without any stolen ships, that being because they got way too high a/c and way too good d/c.
Added the fact that with awesome steal ships they got nice kill ships with kickass innit.

Now, after stealing ships ( no, not close the gaps, but to fortify the fortress ), they are - impossible - to roid, unless u do crazy teamups on them.

lets end the round now plz
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 22 Apr 2008, 12:57   #74
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
no, not close the gaps, but to fortify the fortress
Same thing innit.
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Unread 22 Apr 2008, 13:22   #75
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Re: Final stats of round 26

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Same thing innit.
no, thing is...in other rounds zik were pretty easy to attack untill they managed to steal nice defence... now they started out as impossible to roid for most combos.

I m fine with ziks being hard to roid late round if they have stolen nice fleets, but now its just too easy... 100% zik gals ftw
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Unread 22 Apr 2008, 14:02   #76
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Ziks dont seem to be very over-represented in the top 200ish though. Yet, at least.

Trending upwards?
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Unread 22 Apr 2008, 14:18   #77
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Ziks dont seem to be very over-represented in the top 200ish though. Yet, at least.

Trending upwards?
yes *understatement*
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 22 Apr 2008, 16:12   #78
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Clearly ziks are doing good cause of the calibre of players playing them
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Unread 22 Apr 2008, 23:57   #79
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Re: Final stats of round 26

I quite like Etd this round, so well done one that at least.

JBG is right though, multi-targetting sucks. It was removed for a reason kids!
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Unread 23 Apr 2008, 00:03   #80
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Re: Final stats of round 26

I like the er... Terrans... this round.

Their buildings are.. quick, n stuff.
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Unread 23 Apr 2008, 09:42   #81
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochese
I quite like Etd this round, so well done one that at least.

JBG is right though, multi-targetting sucks. It was removed for a reason kids!
etd is the most boring race I have ever played. I curse myself every day for ending in the situation that I have to be etd ( damn u pa team )
I honestly cant see how you are enjoying them. plz explain, and show me...as I might learn to have some fun rest of the round

multi targetting is good, prevents smal shit nubs from roiding good players.
makes it possible to build value.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 23 Apr 2008, 10:56   #82
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
multi targetting is good, prevents smal shit nubs from roiding good players.
makes it possible to build value.
Also makes you keep 90% of your fleet home for flak when getting hit, makes roiding impossible without huge teamups at a lot of cases, and most of all makes faking totally ****ing suck. I think shit nubs roiding big planets is the fault of being able to build overpowered single class roiding fleets and getting too much xp for it rather than single targetting.
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Unread 23 Apr 2008, 11:00   #83
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
multi targetting is good, prevents smal shit nubs from roiding good players.
makes it possible to build value.
No Wishmaster, it stops shit players with no idea of fleet compositions getting roided by decent fakes.

Value has always been possible to build, and would be too with single targetting if the stats were made more defensive.
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Unread 23 Apr 2008, 11:06   #84
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^
No Wishmaster, it stops shit players with no idea of fleet compositions getting roided by decent fakes.

Value has always been possible to build, and would be too with single targetting if the stats were made more defensive.
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Unread 23 Apr 2008, 11:47   #85
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^
No Wishmaster, it stops shit players with no idea of fleet compositions getting roided by decent fakes.

Value has always been possible to build, and would be too with single targetting if the stats were made more defensive.
True, to a certain extent. main problem with stats have been that each race had a class they couldnt defend agaisnt no matter what they did, so they just got shitloads of waves on them by smal planets and basicly had no means of selfcovering.

So far I ve by far enjoyed the return of t1,t2,t3 over single class targetting.
Might be because as u said, the stats have been V attackfriendly, and I m no fan of roidswapping games.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 23 Apr 2008, 11:51   #86
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hude
Also makes you keep 90% of your fleet home for flak when getting hit, makes roiding impossible without huge teamups at a lot of cases, and most of all makes faking totally ****ing suck. I think shit nubs roiding big planets is the fault of being able to build overpowered single class roiding fleets and getting too much xp for it rather than single targetting.
That is annoying idd. as ETD I get co/fr/de incs every time I get incs.
I have to stay home with most of my fleet for selfcover, unable to attack or really offer much else than anti cr/bs for defence. Most annoying part os ofc when u get shit incs u selfcover against, but get no bloody salvage for freezing
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Quote:
Originally posted by Newt
I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
<JC`> i sent him a msg saying Wishmaster 0wns, so he recalled
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Unread 23 Apr 2008, 13:00   #87
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
True, to a certain extent. main problem with stats have been that each race had a class they couldnt defend agaisnt no matter what they did, so they just got shitloads of waves on them by smal planets and basicly had no means of selfcovering.

So far I ve by far enjoyed the return of t1,t2,t3 over single class targetting.
Might be because as u said, the stats have been V attackfriendly, and I m no fan of roidswapping games.
Races didn't have a class they couldn't defend against, they had ships they had to put a considerable amount of resources into in order to make them viable as defence. It gave the player the option of being solid defensively and having a rubbish attack fleet, or being wide open to certain classes and rely on cross defending, but having a good attack fleet.

I just don't see how with a playerbase ever decreasing you could afford to make planets harder to attack. I don't know how others feel but personnally I don't like the idea of making a planet run to get roids and having to risk a good proportion of my fleet if they are either not online or too stupid to run. As this is the situation as it would stand if holes in Races ship stats were covered up with multi targetting as well.
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Unread 23 Apr 2008, 13:44   #88
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Game^
Races didn't have a class they couldn't defend against, they had ships they had to put a considerable amount of resources into in order to make them viable as defence. It gave the player the option of being solid defensively and having a rubbish attack fleet, or being wide open to certain classes and rely on cross defending, but having a good attack fleet.
I dont agree. I feel this is more the case with multitargetting than with singeltargetting.
Doubt I will be playing a round with single targetting again. stats would have to be awesome then...and I would have to be forced into playing
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 23 Apr 2008, 14:32   #89
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Re: Final stats of round 26

dunno.. every time I get incoming.. I have to stay home with everything aswell.. and I'm zik.. as I flak my defenders, not going attacking unless my defenders are safe behind the mass flak what a zik can provide. One week was home 5/7 nights because of constant incoming... because every damn time it's emp + something(2-5 other dudes) trying me out in most of the waves.
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Unread 23 Apr 2008, 14:55   #90
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Re: Final stats of round 26

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Originally Posted by Wishmaster
I dont agree. I feel this is more the case with multitargetting than with singeltargetting.
Doubt I will be playing a round with single targetting again. stats would have to be awesome then...and I would have to be forced into playing
Don't agree with what?

It stands to reason that with multi targetting you have to build less variations of ships in order to cover the classes of incoming.
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Unread 23 Apr 2008, 17:17   #91
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Re: Final stats of round 26

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Originally Posted by Game^
Don't agree with what?

It stands to reason that with multi targetting you have to build less variations of ships in order to cover the classes of incoming.
Well, there's cover and then there's cover. There's also counter-targeting to consider, and initiative where applicable.

So, even though you might target everything, it might still be far from optimal coverage.

If that makes sense.
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Unread 23 Apr 2008, 17:58   #92
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Re: Final stats of round 26

well it actually makes sense to build only fr/de as a xan for example, gives you way better flak and coverage
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Unread 23 Apr 2008, 21:40   #93
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
etd is the most boring race I have ever played. I curse myself every day for ending in the situation that I have to be etd ( damn u pa team )
I honestly cant see how you are enjoying them. plz explain, and show me...as I might learn to have some fun rest of the round
You can essentially cover every class with three ships, and the FR fleet is pretty cool offensively.

I didn't mess too much with the CR fleet (just lost what little I had, but capped roids) but it still looked decent enough.

I'd be well over 1k roids if could get defense from time to time from OOG :P
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Unread 24 Apr 2008, 00:15   #94
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Re: Final stats of round 26

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Originally Posted by Ultimate Newbie
Well, there's cover and then there's cover. There's also counter-targeting to consider, and initiative where applicable.

So, even though you might target everything, it might still be far from optimal coverage.

If that makes sense.
But that doesnt change anything that I said. I said you needed less different ships to cover yourself, with single targetting you needed at least 6. If you see my point now?
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Unread 24 Apr 2008, 02:59   #95
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Re: Final stats of round 26

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Originally Posted by Game^
But that doesnt change anything that I said. I said you needed less different ships to cover yourself, with single targetting you needed at least 6. If you see my point now?
Oh, i fully understood your point initially - indeed, that's why i was always in favour of single class targeting as it required people to build more types of ship.

I was just saying that the number might not actually be 3, as there are other considerations in play. But generally, yes, it should require less types to "self-cover" in a multi class targeting environment.
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Unread 24 Apr 2008, 08:11   #96
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Re: Final stats of round 26

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Originally Posted by Game^
Races didn't have a class they couldn't defend against, they had ships they had to put a considerable amount of resources into in order to make them viable as defence. It gave the player the option of being solid defensively and having a rubbish attack fleet, or being wide open to certain classes and rely on cross defending, but having a good attack fleet.
quoting same again.

ok, what I dont agree with is: - races didnt have a class they couldnt defend against-

There were always some classes of incomings which you just HAD to rely on def to cover. no matter how smal the attacker was. Basicly because an attackfleet would always in one or more cases target your defence ships shooting b4 you could, making it rather pointless to even try to selfcover with it being worth it for u.

As to xans having too good fr/de fleet...well thats easy to balance out with giving more options to their fi/co fleet.

Dont see any good coming out of going back to singletargetting, unless u like to be able to roid easy solo and swap roids back and forth for xp as your main goal.
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 24 Apr 2008, 08:21   #97
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Re: Final stats of round 26

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Originally Posted by Cochese
You can essentially cover every class with three ships, and the FR fleet is pretty cool offensively.

I didn't mess too much with the CR fleet (just lost what little I had, but capped roids) but it still looked decent enough.

I'd be well over 1k roids if could get defense from time to time from OOG :P
what 3 ships?

FR: Defender: anti fi co
Recluse: anti fr de
Lancer: anti bs

- leaves u wide open to CR incs -

FORCES you to invest heavily in CR to prevent being mass waved by CR yourself.

Lancers got same innit as terran bs for some reason, both being t1 on eachother. But u need em to stop zik bs, seing how the rogue is waaaay overpowered for some reason, and also got cr as t1 aswell as innit advantage over etd cr. rogue should be innit 8, or BS as t1 and cr as t2.


sigh. forces me to spend on too many ships, compared to what others have to

if u want to, I can go more into detail why etd sucks, but we can do that in pm
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I would give me right testicle to be in a gal with you wishmaster!!! wonder if thatd be enough to bribe spinner with hmmmm
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Unread 24 Apr 2008, 16:27   #98
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Re: Final stats of round 26

So you have to build 4 ships?

Ziks build cors/(thiefs)/brigs/buccs/rogues/pirates...assuming no stolen ships.

Also, overly offensive stats means that a weak player suffers far more than a strong alliance player. He's basicly incapable of holding on to any roids at all. No wonder we're down to 1k players, incidentally the only ones who actually seem to like the current way. Personally I'd rather play old PA over pax any day, and not just because there were more players.
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Unread 24 Apr 2008, 16:44   #99
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
So you have to build 4 ships?

Ziks build cors/(thiefs)/brigs/buccs/rogues/pirates...assuming no stolen ships.

Also, overly offensive stats means that a weak player suffers far more than a strong alliance player. He's basicly incapable of holding on to any roids at all. No wonder we're down to 1k players, incidentally the only ones who actually seem to like the current way. Personally I'd rather play old PA over pax any day, and not just because there were more players.
People have rose tinted glasses on when it comes to the 'old' PA. It was shit at the end of the day, and if you weren't on 16 hours a day you could forget about a decent ranking.
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Unread 25 Apr 2008, 00:09   #100
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Re: Final stats of round 26

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaster
what 3 ships?

FR: Defender: anti fi co
Recluse: anti fr de
Lancer: anti bs

- leaves u wide open to CR incs -
I stopped building lancers really, though they have some use in certain situations.

Quote:
FORCES you to invest heavily in CR to prevent being mass waved by CR yourself.
I was actually thinking of guardians as the 3rd ship, not lancers I've really not seen much BS flying around, and certainly very little (if any) attacking my planet. CR fleet occasionally.

It's typically CO FR or DE rushes trying to outflak my emp...but that's to be expected with emp.


Quote:
if u want to, I can go more into detail why etd sucks, but we can do that in pm
Nah, you've made perfectly valid points on the issue, I just happen to disagree slightly.

Besides, we'd probably both be playing Xan if they had a Fi fleet again

I know I would
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