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Unread 29 Mar 2008, 22:23   #1
Zaejii
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Change to Protection Period

I suggest that protection be changed so you tick your planet by pressing a 'tick' button, similar to PA offline.

Each signup gets 24 hours of protection. During this, you have 72 ticks to 'spend'. You set your orders, press the tick button, and your planet ticks as normal. After the 24hrs, protection & unspent ticks are gone.

Possible implementations:
a) First 35 ticks on this system, followed by the normal tick 36 shuffle & 36 normal ticks of protection.

b) First 72 ticks on this system. On tickstart, everyone's shuffled into galaxies and out of protection. A 12 hour break could be introduced for galaxy mingling & attack preparation.

Unpaid planets could be predetermined or have other restrictions (eg less ticks to spend or manually have to play the first ticks)

This method reduces boredom and allows extra days of 'proper' gameplay.

Acknowledgments: Benneh, dec, Gate
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Unread 29 Mar 2008, 22:31   #2
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Re: Change to Protection Period

I love the idea; it makes PA more dynamic & is more likely to grab new players' attention. It also means you can get 2 more days of war & politics in a 7 week round.

Additionally; these ticks could be spent during signup week and shuffle could occur at PT1 (for 3 extra days of fighting).


The downside I see is that the shuffle system could be undermined further. Currently it shuffles based on 36 ticks of actual activity, which is more representative than 36 or 72 button clicks. The current system isn't perfect, but this is even less so.

But I think the pros outweigh the cons by a lot and if this can be done, it should be.
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Unread 29 Mar 2008, 22:36   #3
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Yes.
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Unread 29 Mar 2008, 23:32   #4
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Re: Change to Protection Period

I am against it. Activity should be rewarded imo.
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Unread 29 Mar 2008, 23:54   #5
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
I love the idea; it makes PA more dynamic & is more likely to grab new players' attention. It also means you can get 2 more days of war & politics in a 7 week round.
Ok, I agree potentially there could be more game time, but look at it this way if this were to be implemented. I would ask that it be based on the players control, I.e. the game would be as normal, however the player could choose weather or not to implement protection ticks, this would allow for people to start earlier allowing warfare covert ops and so forth.

Earlier, I say this because it would allow some players to function with out protection thus allowing more time for game play(This might only be done by some of us continuously returning members), however it would allow a person to do or implement protection ticks if he is only going to be away for [X] hours without waiting for 3 days for vacation mode to over.

Now by no means am i saying that there wont need to be some restrictions applied here but, me myself, i see no point in have in protection for the first 48 hours or so because the limited number of people who can effectively get a fleet together enough to roid someone, However i have always enjoyed that ability to be untuchable for 72 ticks.

But at the same time say like me if at tick 82 i need to be away from the comp for a birthday in (Insert name here) **** which i have to drive to and i don't need to worry about my planet i spend [X] protection ticks which i will assume will mean i cant have any incoming my fleets home extra, however i still would receive resources and Research, construction would continue, since it would anyway, the down side to this is yes i believe if u thought about it somebody would abuse it or maybe turn it into a tactical advantage of some kind,

the point to reiterate is this is great idea just needs fine tuning before we present the idea to the larger community, other examples that need the same Care in thought are pds ect. but all in all i like this idea and will hope i will see it in rounds to come
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Unread 30 Mar 2008, 00:27   #6
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
I am against it. Activity should be rewarded imo.
You're right. In a multi-player game such as Planetarion, high activity should yield better results than low activity (generally speaking). Where the ceiling for this reward for activity should be put is a matter that can be debated endlessly, but in principle I find myself in agreement with you.

However, protection is not a multi-player stage of the game. All actions performed during protection are performed on one's own planet, without possibility of interference from and with other planets (indeed, this is the entire point behind protection). So if we're not talking about a multi-player aspect of the game, why should we reward activity?

Do you really enjoy the mindnumbing boredom of protection so much? Do you see any reason why people should wake up at night to perform actions which are essentially single player based? Would you set an alarm at night to play a game of Starcraft against a computer opponent? Of course you wouldn't, and neither should people playing Planetarion during protection.



P.S. Alucard, paragraphs man, paragraphs. Your post is unreadable. As for the contents, from the bits I did read it appears to be unrelated to (and worse, incompatible with) this suggestion.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.

Last edited by Mzyxptlk; 30 Mar 2008 at 01:16.
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Unread 30 Mar 2008, 00:48   #7
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Mzyxptlk, I see it dint save, I did fix that post into paragraphs again, parts it seems were not correctly displayed, and I thank you for saying something.

However I think you are Gravely mistaken if you feel my post was not on topic, although I agree that activity is rewarded most people playing planetarion it comes at the cost of some RL activities.

Implementing something like this would draw in a larger base of players due to the fact it makes the game a tidy bit more flexible with there schedules and really wouldn't effect the game to much, I think a trial run should be run on the beta server but at real time to see overal effect.

Besides these are only my options and as such, Anyone can say what the feel
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Unread 30 Mar 2008, 01:16   #8
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Oh, yeah, you're right, they are compatible. My bad.
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The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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Unread 30 Mar 2008, 02:37   #9
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Fish
I am against it. Activity should be rewarded imo.
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Unread 30 Mar 2008, 08:06   #10
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Re: Change to Protection Period

I tried many similar games. I seldomly got through the protection period to truely experience the game.
Protection period is the most boring time for people who don’t know the game and just click randomly, follow the manual/quests or some plan made by others.
Protection should be as short as possible.
Just give people resources, a few constructions, some tech (mining 300 roids, fighter class ships) and just get on with it after say 24 hrs.

I like protection myself. I know what to do and try to optimize my detailed plans. It’s the only time I can make it to the top10.

edit: spelling

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Unread 30 Mar 2008, 08:21   #11
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerbie2
Itís the only time I can make it to the top10.
Podbuilders



More seriously, I would like Protection to be faster and more enjoyable, but I do think efforts to keep it more tactical is important: protection is one of the few times when everyone has the opportunity to follow different paths and can clearly see the results, and this is good.

This suggestion seems to fit then bill then; it makes decisions on how best to optimise your planet remains critical, whilst at the same time speeding it up so that you dont sit around waiting for 8 hours for that research that *everyone* does to finish, just so you can start the next one which *everyone* does as well. That isnt fun, i dont reckon.

Problems wrt the shuffle are important though, especially guaging activity. These will need to be addressed first before it can proceed.



Perhaps you have two options: a "hardcore" start whereby you have xyz research and construction points to allocate before the first tick (represeting 72 ticks worth of research and construction), thus you can start essentially immediately, or a more "guided" approach which is essentially what its like now, as it gives newer players the chance to get to know what's going on before they start getting attacked?
Or some middle ground?
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Unread 30 Mar 2008, 13:07   #12
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Ultimate Newbie im defiantly glad you and i both are on the same train of thought on this as i have always respected your thoughts, I state again it would be really something to add more excitement to the game tick 1 fleet launches alas i would love to see the galaxy filled with red. Maybe you would also share your thoughts on PDS and a way to possably bring it back
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Unread 30 Mar 2008, 16:04   #13
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Remember that the 72 hour protection was designed for longer rounds (12 weeks or so?). We've now been chopped down to 7 week rounds and we're still having to deal with a very boring 3 days to get ready.

I think it's about time it was cut down in some way. Even if some of the suggestions in this thread aren't used, it could still be dropped down to 48 hours and remove a research or two to compensate. The shuffle could quite easily take place on Saturday morning instead of Sunday morning.
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Unread 30 Mar 2008, 18:27   #14
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by GReaper
Remember that the 72 hour protection was designed for longer rounds (12 weeks or so?). We've now been chopped down to 7 week rounds and we're still having to deal with a very boring 3 days to get ready.

I think it's about time it was cut down in some way. Even if some of the suggestions in this thread aren't used, it could still be dropped down to 48 hours and remove a research or two to compensate. The shuffle could quite easily take place on Saturday morning instead of Sunday morning.
Anything to cut down the protection period would be a good thing. I prefer the method suggested in this thread. But a compromise would be your suggested method, which is a sytem that could be adopted if recoding is an issue.


EDIT: After a chat with Appoco, he suggests that we'd need a lot of coding. In that case, 24 or 36 hours of protection are possible alternatives, with a res/min sped up so that attacks can be launched PT25 or PT37.
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 01:45   #15
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
EDIT: After a chat with Appoco, he suggests that we'd need a lot of coding. In that case, 24 or 36 hours of protection are possible alternatives, with a res/min sped up so that attacks can be launched PT25 or PT37.
mmm, i imagine it would need alot of coding .

So, what about making it 36 ticks long, with a shuffle at 24 ticks (which leaves 12 ticks for you to get to know your galaxy before the incoming arrives - or not, given that production takes time), and then you either;

1) remove the bottom tier of the most common researches (eg, HCT1, Infrastructure 1 and what... Ship 1?), or preferably;
2) Give people the option of xyz ticks worth of research and/or abc ticks of construction to distribute at their leisure in accordance with their own start-up stategies.

I prefer 2) because it means that if you want to be a scanner, then you dont have to do silly ship research so early. However, the downside is that it might lead to some unusual results as people scurry to get exactly 1 more research or construction done rather than the 'best' combination. But ultimately, that's up to them imo.
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 01:50   #16
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alucard
Ultimate Newbie im defiantly glad you and i both are on the same train of thought on this as i have always respected your thoughts, I state again it would be really something to add more excitement to the game tick 1 fleet launches
Awww, thanks mate . But i'm not sure about the 1 tick fleet launches; sure it might be exiting... right up untill the point of total despair as your planet gets waved to hell as you cant be at your computer all the time. :\

Quote:
Maybe you would also share your thoughts on PDS and a way to possably bring it back
I've long been a fan of the removal of PDS, given that they either made top planets really strong (The Roman Fortress, R3 for example) and they made bottom planets far too weak as they couldnt run the PDS if they got attacked, and as such they either lost more than they should have (by just running their fleet) or they were induced in to battle that they would just loose anyway in order to 'protect' their PDS.

Either way, PDS only resulted in the bottom players getting smashed, after PDS no longer had the best initiative from R5.

As such, i dont favour its re-introduction.
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 02:31   #17
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Re: Change to Protection Period

wouldn't it be easier then to have this 36 tick protection at start + one 24 tick period of 'special vacation' you could take anytime (before last week of the game) and which wouldn't stop your mining ?
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 15:17   #18
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
wouldn't it be easier then to have this 36 tick protection at start + one 24 tick period of 'special vacation' you could take anytime (before last week of the game) and which wouldn't stop your mining ?
I don't like the 24h break thing. Alliances would be able to use it to maintain a massive roidlead for an extra day and in such a short round, that can be very important...
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 15:36   #19
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Re: Change to Protection Period

But since every alliance can use it to maintain a massive roidlead, it is irrelevant, and can't be used as an argument against Makhil's idea.

However, I dont see any argument for implementing it either. Vacation mode as it is right now suffices in providing a way for people to be away for an extended period of time without losing their ships, and the disadvantages make sure few people use it to escape incomings.
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 18:12   #20
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
But since every alliance can use it to maintain a massive roidlead, it is irrelevant, and can't be used as an argument against Makhil's idea.
I think it's still a relevant point.

An alliance with a roidlead can use it to escape massive incomings for a day and maintain this roidlead for a day, gaining more value over their opposition. It's something I think's open to abuse because we have such short rounds nowadays.
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 18:59   #21
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Every alliance with a roidlead can do this. Today alliance X, tomorrow alliance Y, the day after alliance Z. They all get their turn.
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 19:16   #22
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Re: Change to Protection Period

I'm not convinced every alliance will get a chance to have that roidlead. NewDawn weren't ahead in roids once last round, according to sandmans f'r'instance.

It may balance out, but it's something I think could disrupt the balance of the game without adding to it.
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Unread 31 Mar 2008, 19:23   #23
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gate
I'm not convinced every alliance will get a chance to have that roidlead. NewDawn weren't ahead in roids once last round, according to sandmans f'r'instance.
Good thing all ND members were intag the whole round otherwise that would be in danger of being a completely worthless statistic!
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Unread 9 Apr 2008, 00:08   #24
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Somehow I missed this thread; I have to say this is one of the better ideas I've seen in a while.

Being a working man, and unable to get online during the protection period race as much as I'd typically like, this is even better for people like me.

I can sit here for an hour, and 'force-tick' my way through all the bullshit...while also not losing ticks and falling behind due to the previously mentioned work schedule and limited internet access during workdays.

Do it!
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Unread 9 Apr 2008, 01:42   #25
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Re: Change to Protection Period

One other option, maybe just change the duration of protection according to how far we're into the round. At the start 72 hours isn't too bad as it takes that long to get the constructions ready, research a few lines, build ships and so on.

Given that planets now get certain levels of research added if they start later on, the duration of protection could be reduced. Tick 300 could be 48 hours, tick 600 with 24 hours, etc.
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Unread 9 Apr 2008, 03:00   #26
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Re: Change to Protection Period

That makes sense.
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Unread 9 Apr 2008, 15:18   #27
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Ehh??

Why not remove the first 72 ticks all together??

The game starts at 20.00 GMT, but you can log on for one day in advance.. In that period you can press 72 (or more depending on the agreement) "END TURN" who basically is the same as a tick now.

In that period, you can play normally, but you can't launch ships / covert, because you are protected.

IF you start later, you still get those 72 END TURNS, so you can boost your mining output. Actually, you can do your first 72 or whatever turns even in C200.. At the moment you are ready with it, you are teleported to your new home and the game starts. No more protection period needed.
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Unread 9 Apr 2008, 15:57   #28
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Read the thread, what you just tried to make sound as your idea has been discussed in this thread already.
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Unread 9 Apr 2008, 20:30   #29
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by Osidiradadumpf
Why not remove the first 72 ticks all together??

The game starts at 20.00 GMT, but you can log on for one day in advance.. In that period you can press 72 (or more depending on the agreement) "END TURN" who basically is the same as a tick now.
This is what was originally proposed.

A few people dislike the reduction in rewards for active players, but the salient point is that it would take significant coding resources if I understood correctly.

Given the limited time PAteam has to implement changes, a shortened protection period and altered tech tree may be the better choice.
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Unread 9 Apr 2008, 23:18   #30
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Re: Change to Protection Period

I don't mind being active for PA, in fact I quite enjoy it, but being active for protection is about as entertaining as driving nails into your own eyes.
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Unread 10 Apr 2008, 14:57   #31
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk
Read the thread, what you just tried to make sound as your idea has been discussed in this thread already.
Ehh, ooops. you are right. :-( Its closely match the first post.. Oh well, even if the idea is not mine, i do think it got a lot of advantages.. And those complaining that it favours those who are less active.. well.. its ONLY three days of ticks... and it will mean that everyone is fresh at the start of the real game.
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Unread 10 Apr 2008, 15:02   #32
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Re: Change to Protection Period

The main issue here is not unfairness, it's that it's likely to cost more time to implement than PA Team has available.
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Unread 10 Apr 2008, 15:21   #33
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Which is why quite a few other ideas have been proposed in this thread as well.

It would be nice to see some change to protection.
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Unread 10 Apr 2008, 16:38   #34
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
I don't mind being active for PA, in fact I quite enjoy it, but being active for protection is about as entertaining as driving nails into your own eyes.
I agree.

One or two people I spoke to think that there should be a reward for activity in protection. But I'd argue there's sufficient reward to be gained in the extra hours of actual PA time you get.
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Unread 10 Apr 2008, 16:51   #35
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Activity in protection is activity for activity's sake.
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Unread 24 Mar 2009, 00:09   #36
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Yes, bad to necro, but this is still a good idea that should be brought back up for consideration.
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Unread 24 Mar 2009, 01:27   #37
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Re: Change to Protection Period

I thought it was a great idea.

Protection is retarded for anyone who's played this game before. I see no reason not to be able to fast track it.
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Unread 24 Mar 2009, 02:41   #38
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Re: Change to Protection Period

The last thing any new player wants to be told is that you have to wait 3 days before you can even play the game you signed up for.

Seriously, Planetarion needs a rethink for how new players start the game. Whilst I'm sure some regular players don't mind the initial 72+ hours at the start of a round, as it allows us to go specific ways with our research and constructions - to a new player it's going to make them wonder how anyone could be interested in such a game.

Even regular players don't need such a long protection period anymore, especially once the game has started.
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Unread 24 Mar 2009, 02:53   #39
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Re: Change to Protection Period

What GReaper said.

I think the "speedgame" (which lets face it, is for people who suck at normal PA, since I'm pretty good at it) has potential to be quite a "tutorial" for new players.

Let them have quick action, make mistakes, and learn the best way--the hard way--without losing out, or feeling they lost out, on the $10 they just paid for a credit.
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Unread 24 Mar 2009, 03:40   #40
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Protection is by far the worst part of the game, newbie or veteran alike.

I like the idea, the only think I'd change is make it a 24 hour protection, either have it tick like normal 24 times and give you these 48 "extra" ticks that have to be spent in that 24 hours, or just give you 72 ticks to spend in 24 hours, then the game starts ticking normally. Either way you're in protection for 24 hours. That way you get some time to get IRC set up and get to know your gal a little bit before the crap starts flying.
I would also make an addition to this that the New Player guide needs to be updated and made very detailed as well if you implement this. I say this because if you can just spend 48-72 ticks in a matter of minutes, a brand new player can mess up those ticks very quickly and easily. As it is now a new player can start out poorly, but then get in contact with more veteran galmates and get advice, and correct previous mistakes before too many ticks get lost.

I came back from a many year break this round, and I definitely found the manual and new player guide to be a bit lacking in areas.
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Unread 24 Mar 2009, 10:35   #41
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Highlight recommended constructions/researches(/ships?).
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Unread 24 Mar 2009, 11:52   #42
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Re: Change to Protection Period

No protection, every planet starts with the basic research / some constructions done is my favourite solution.
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Unread 24 Mar 2009, 12:28   #43
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Now that the upgrade bonus is coded to give you a load of research/con/resources etc, why not just give everyone a bulk load of points to build their planet with and do away with protection?
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Unread 24 Mar 2009, 13:44   #44
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Re: Change to Protection Period

Why not jus change ticks to 30mins for protection? lessons the time, which everyone wants, yet doenst really require much work to do?
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Unread 24 Mar 2009, 13:54   #45
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Re: Change to Protection Period

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Why not jus change ticks to 30mins for protection? lessons the time, which everyone wants, yet doenst really require much work to do?
And would double the amount of ticks you miss while sleeping.
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Unread 24 Mar 2009, 13:55   #46
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Re: Change to Protection Period

True it would then stop the issue that u can't sleep due to initiating, didn't think of that! Maybe if every1 started on 300 roids?
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Unread 24 Mar 2009, 14:04   #47
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Re: Change to Protection Period

use something similar to the upgrade bonus for res/con then people can pick where they want to use them and we dont have the tedious protection to deal with
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