User Name
Password

Go Back   Planetarion Forums > Planetarion Related Forums > Planetarion Discussions

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 15 Sep 2012, 11:43   #251
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Membrivio View Post
Mz: the key message is - Jagex never checked inside the black box. They only know it is a black box. And that is the way they will sell it again. Without checking the content of the black box.

Or another analogy: a garage auction. Buyers come over and only see the content from the outside. They decide to buy it, but forget about it the next day. A few years later they open the garage box and close it directly. They sell it without having checked the contents.

I think this is what Appoco meant to say :P
Maybe my analogy sucked more than I thought.

I was trying to say that Stylez1877 was talking about something he knew very little about.
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Sep 2012, 13:41   #252
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

The analogy was fine, Appoco - the trolls were just playing dumb.
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Sep 2012, 20:05   #253
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

No, not really.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Sep 2012, 20:49   #254
ArcChas
General (Adjective Army)
 
ArcChas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Yorkshire, England.
Posts: 825
ArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud ofArcChas has much to be proud of
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

The trolls really *are* dumb?
__________________
Amnion (aka The Arcane Chas of Arcania) - Playing PA under those and other pseudonyms every genuine round since Round 2. Most recently (and insignificantly):
Onset of Apathy R94 | Stacks of Resources R95 | The Necromancer of Dol Guldur R96
70 Years of Queen Elizabeth R97 | Worst of The Worst R98
Knights of the Green Shield R99 | Look Out of The Window R100 | Most of All R102
Hard of Hearing (2:7:1) R103 | The Lateness of Your Application (1:6:6) R104 | Kinnison of Tellus (5:1:2) R105
ArcChas is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Sep 2012, 08:24   #255
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Getting back to the Point on hand, Are we expecting new from Jagex anytime soon, or at least can we expect to see a Link on there website so that it may draw some new attention.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Sep 2012, 17:43   #256
Stylez1877
Honour above pr0n
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Home of 1337- Pittsburgh
Posts: 54
Stylez1877 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
Maybe my analogy sucked more than I thought.

I was trying to say that Stylez1877 was talking about something he knew very little about.
Of course I know little about it. Jagex hasn't even acknowledged our existence. There is absolutely no information for any of us to know about, other than a lack thereof.

However all that does is support my analogy. Which was indeed better than yours
__________________
Round 4: Dawg_14k Of Tashbaan 96:8:8 (D6 | NRK)
Round 5:The End of Tim3 9:23:9 (NRK)
Round 6: Sekigahari of Malakhi 13:15:6 (Guild)
Round 7: =- Arutha -= The Prince of Krondor 29:17:13 (NoS)
Round 8: Forget..(Adelante/Fang)
Round 9: 5:5:7 1010100101101010 of 101101010110 (NoS)
Stylez1877 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Oct 2012, 22:05   #257
Remy
Ex-Head Multihunter
 
Remy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: At home
Posts: 900
Remy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud of
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Ok, let's face it:

It weas in August that poco said he hoped for news 'this month'.

Jagex will never do anything, and will keep everyone in the dark about the future, in the hope us silly players will keep paying for a bit longer.

Meanwhile every single change in the game makes a few more people leave who will never come back.

It was hopeless since round 5, and will always be hopeless.

I never thought i would say this, but I hereby encourage every single player to refuse to pay, or even play this silly game any longer.

I will not pay for a product from such a lame, useless, cockroach kind of company
__________________
R02.0-R4.0: [noob]
R05.0: [Wrath]/[Fury]
R06.0: Quit after 1 week
R7-9: Had an account, but didnt play seriously
R09.5: []LCH[] Officer
R10.0: []LCH[] HC (Rank #9, #1 Gal)
R10.5-R18.0: []LCH[] HC Scanner!
R18.0-R33 : Multihunter, Head MH
R34-.. : [CT] HC
Remy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Oct 2012, 22:33   #258
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

stuff I wanted to say has taken ages to sort out. pushing to announce it asap ultra hopeful that I can say something ... well, ... now I don't want to give a time. I'd have said Monday if my track record didn't make me feel bad about it.
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Oct 2012, 22:36   #259
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

You should probably stop replying, this isn't improving matters at all.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 9 Oct 2012, 22:53   #260
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Yeah I'll shush
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Oct 2012, 01:15   #261
Korsan
Always MadcowS
 
Korsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Korsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the rough
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

I am curious about Monday and your excuse
__________________
[Flash][Madcows][Howling Rain][Vision][Osiris][horde][xVx]

And...

Relation Change Ascendancy and the Horde are now at war with each other.
Korsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Oct 2012, 06:37   #262
Nitros
Internal Error
 
Nitros's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 696
Nitros is a splendid one to beholdNitros is a splendid one to beholdNitros is a splendid one to beholdNitros is a splendid one to beholdNitros is a splendid one to beholdNitros is a splendid one to beholdNitros is a splendid one to behold
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Cant really blame it on Appocomaster. Not his fault his company cant stick to agreements. Though I guess with a bad trackrecord of not able to stick to them, its not wise to make promises about them.
__________________
Nitros

[]LCH[] ..lets change history
Nitros is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Oct 2012, 15:16   #263
Remy
Ex-Head Multihunter
 
Remy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: At home
Posts: 900
Remy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud of
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Important note: At no point i blame poco + staff. Just jagex
__________________
R02.0-R4.0: [noob]
R05.0: [Wrath]/[Fury]
R06.0: Quit after 1 week
R7-9: Had an account, but didnt play seriously
R09.5: []LCH[] Officer
R10.0: []LCH[] HC (Rank #9, #1 Gal)
R10.5-R18.0: []LCH[] HC Scanner!
R18.0-R33 : Multihunter, Head MH
R34-.. : [CT] HC
Remy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10 Oct 2012, 21:45   #264
Clouds
Registered User
 
Clouds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,386
Clouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to beholdClouds is a splendid one to behold
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

I'm starting to think that I can't be arsed with the game anymore.
Clouds is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12 Oct 2012, 22:01   #265
Remy
Ex-Head Multihunter
 
Remy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: At home
Posts: 900
Remy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud of
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

starting?
__________________
R02.0-R4.0: [noob]
R05.0: [Wrath]/[Fury]
R06.0: Quit after 1 week
R7-9: Had an account, but didnt play seriously
R09.5: []LCH[] Officer
R10.0: []LCH[] HC (Rank #9, #1 Gal)
R10.5-R18.0: []LCH[] HC Scanner!
R18.0-R33 : Multihunter, Head MH
R34-.. : [CT] HC
Remy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Oct 2012, 00:42   #266
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

I should really unsubscribe from this thread
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 13 Oct 2012, 19:15   #267
Korsan
Always MadcowS
 
Korsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Korsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the rough
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Appocomaster View Post
I should really unsubscribe from this thread
I guess you couldn't get ANY information from Jagex.. And with Sunday between it I am pretty sure there will be nothing to announce on Monday.

Maybe you should consider some sort of protest on your own Appocomaster? I think you aren't really happy with them like the rest of the community.
__________________
[Flash][Madcows][Howling Rain][Vision][Osiris][horde][xVx]

And...

Relation Change Ascendancy and the Horde are now at war with each other.
Korsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 15 Oct 2012, 21:59   #268
Korsan
Always MadcowS
 
Korsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Korsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the rough
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Yo it's monday
__________________
[Flash][Madcows][Howling Rain][Vision][Osiris][horde][xVx]

And...

Relation Change Ascendancy and the Horde are now at war with each other.
Korsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Oct 2012, 13:43   #269
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Ah yes, well reminded.
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Oct 2012, 13:55   #270
Plaguuu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 477
Plaguuu is just really nicePlaguuu is just really nicePlaguuu is just really nicePlaguuu is just really nicePlaguuu is just really nice
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Remember guys, every week has a Monday, he didn't state which Monday he was coming with info did he ? :P
Plaguuu is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Oct 2012, 18:30   #271
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Oct 2012, 18:55   #272
Korsan
Always MadcowS
 
Korsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Korsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the rough
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Appocomaster can't you really show them you are pissed off from their ignorance? Or did you already do that? I'd go mad if I was you man.. After all you care for this game, you run it and Jagex does nothing to help you. Shame on them, really...
Maybe it's good for you to know that not even I blame you for the current situation.
__________________
[Flash][Madcows][Howling Rain][Vision][Osiris][horde][xVx]

And...

Relation Change Ascendancy and the Horde are now at war with each other.
Korsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 16 Oct 2012, 19:44   #273
Nitros
Internal Error
 
Nitros's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: the Netherlands
Posts: 696
Nitros is a splendid one to beholdNitros is a splendid one to beholdNitros is a splendid one to beholdNitros is a splendid one to beholdNitros is a splendid one to beholdNitros is a splendid one to beholdNitros is a splendid one to behold
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Remy View Post

I never thought i would say this, but I hereby encourage every single player to refuse to pay, or even play this silly game any longer.

I will not pay for a product from such a lame, useless, cockroach kind of company
__________________
Nitros

[]LCH[] ..lets change history
Nitros is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Oct 2012, 08:23   #274
Remy
Ex-Head Multihunter
 
Remy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: At home
Posts: 900
Remy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud of
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Lol, i just checked jagex website. It's completely refreshed. Thinking that maybe this was part of poco's big news and somehow involving PA, I browsed to the 'Games' tab (@ http://www.jagex.com/careers/games ). Turns out they list only three games, and PA is not one of them. Didn't they have dozens of games? I guess, despite poco's reassurance it does, that PA has no place there. IF they would commit, as they promised, it would be there by now, wouldn't it?

So I started thinking. What news would be postponed a million times? The most logical answer? The news of PA being sold or ditched to a new owner. NO other news would, in my opinion, result in endless waiting and vague promises about what the news would be. IF somehow Jagex was planning to launch some drastic plans for PA, it would have been announced by now and then later, ppl would have discovered nothing had happened (sorry for the realism, ehhh sarcasm).

Again, the only reason I can think of for such a long wait and such vagueness, are negotiations between Jagex and another party about selling/ditching the game.

Ideas?
__________________
R02.0-R4.0: [noob]
R05.0: [Wrath]/[Fury]
R06.0: Quit after 1 week
R7-9: Had an account, but didnt play seriously
R09.5: []LCH[] Officer
R10.0: []LCH[] HC (Rank #9, #1 Gal)
R10.5-R18.0: []LCH[] HC Scanner!
R18.0-R33 : Multihunter, Head MH
R34-.. : [CT] HC
Remy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Oct 2012, 08:25   #275
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

didn't spinner offer to buy it from jagex and get rejected?
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Oct 2012, 08:43   #276
Mzyxptlk
mz.
Alien Invasion Champion, Submarine Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Barts Watersports Adventure Champion
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.Mzyxptlk has ascended to a higher existance and no longer needs rep points to prove the size of his e-penis.
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

From what little Appoco has been able to say in this thread, I do not believe they're planning to kill off PA.

There are a thousand reasons for delaying an announcement, and most of them boil down to incompetence.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
Mzyxptlk is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Oct 2012, 08:53   #277
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

my guess for the delay is that they've redesigned the whole game, programming a lot of new code and such, i believe that's generous enough to explain the time frame of delayed announcements
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Oct 2012, 08:58   #278
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

lets make a game of it! Lets all make a stab at what the announcement is, the winning guess gets 5 credits! HEY APPOCO MAKE IT HAPPEN!
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Oct 2012, 10:32   #279
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

5 credits? no way!
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Oct 2012, 14:08   #280
Korsan
Always MadcowS
 
Korsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Korsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the rough
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue_Esper View Post
my guess for the delay is that they've redesigned the whole game, programming a lot of new code and such, i believe that's generous enough to explain the time frame of delayed announcements
There has been recent news about internal problems at Jagex and that they are not doing any "hobby" programming on games any more. Their focus have been the Transformers kid's game for a while now and my bet is they never took a look at PA.
If they were working on it they'd have announced something because working on it means they actually care and caring means they have to involve the community to prevent them quitting the game and thus make their time and money investment for the game a bad investment.

Spinner also offered to buy back PA and Jagex' answer was that they are not planning to sell the game.

My bet is still they want the game to die and use the URL www.planetarion.com for a new game. It has been mentioned once that the url itself is worth more money then the game itself. Jagex also said early in the beginning that they are working on their own space combat game. An easy mind play says that this new project might take the place of PA once it is taken down.

It's all wild guesses so far... And Appocomaster, our only connection to the owners is not allowed to say anything.
__________________
[Flash][Madcows][Howling Rain][Vision][Osiris][horde][xVx]

And...

Relation Change Ascendancy and the Horde are now at war with each other.
Korsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Oct 2012, 14:20   #281
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
My bet is still they want the game to die and use the URL www.planetarion.com for a new game. It has been mentioned once that the url itself is worth more money then the game itself. Jagex also said early in the beginning that they are working on their own space combat game. An easy mind play says that this new project might take the place of PA once it is taken down.

It's all wild guesses so far... And Appocomaster, our only connection to the owners is not allowed to say anything.
It's not just me that has had contact with Jagex... and you make it sound like there are only 2 people in Jagex HQ. We only speak with a certain few people in Jagex, as would be expected.

I can say that nothing I've heard of has ever given me any hint that the game is going to be replaced by one of Jagex's own; that they are planning on discontinuing the game or that they are planning on using the name for something else.

I have to apologise for causing so much confusion by trying to give encouraging noises before things are finalised to be honest.
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Oct 2012, 18:17   #282
Remy
Ex-Head Multihunter
 
Remy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: At home
Posts: 900
Remy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud of
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Yôu all must admit, this thread and the long awaited announcement is certainly more exciting then the game itself ^^
__________________
R02.0-R4.0: [noob]
R05.0: [Wrath]/[Fury]
R06.0: Quit after 1 week
R7-9: Had an account, but didnt play seriously
R09.5: []LCH[] Officer
R10.0: []LCH[] HC (Rank #9, #1 Gal)
R10.5-R18.0: []LCH[] HC Scanner!
R18.0-R33 : Multihunter, Head MH
R34-.. : [CT] HC
Remy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Oct 2012, 18:20   #283
Korsan
Always MadcowS
 
Korsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Korsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the rough
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

aye. but still it's disappointing. When was the last time someone from Jagex spoke to us?
__________________
[Flash][Madcows][Howling Rain][Vision][Osiris][horde][xVx]

And...

Relation Change Ascendancy and the Horde are now at war with each other.
Korsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Oct 2012, 23:07   #284
Blue_Esper
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,038
Blue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of lightBlue_Esper is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

maybe the news is that they are now going to have a look at planetarion then to decide whether or not its a hobby game
__________________
Did some stuff, played here n there done just about all there is to do
Blue_Esper is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Oct 2012, 23:33   #285
Remy
Ex-Head Multihunter
 
Remy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: At home
Posts: 900
Remy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud ofRemy has much to be proud of
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Th elast time Jagex spoke to us is probably when they introduced themselves and promised heaven. That was like 2 (?) years ago.
__________________
R02.0-R4.0: [noob]
R05.0: [Wrath]/[Fury]
R06.0: Quit after 1 week
R7-9: Had an account, but didnt play seriously
R09.5: []LCH[] Officer
R10.0: []LCH[] HC (Rank #9, #1 Gal)
R10.5-R18.0: []LCH[] HC Scanner!
R18.0-R33 : Multihunter, Head MH
R34-.. : [CT] HC
Remy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 19 Oct 2012, 23:52   #286
Korsan
Always MadcowS
 
Korsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Korsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the rough
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

shows they care...

just an idea.. is there a way the community could buy this game and develop it on their own (like we do anyways)? Options like kickstarter are always there, I am just not sure how the game would be managed and who'd really own it then
__________________
[Flash][Madcows][Howling Rain][Vision][Osiris][horde][xVx]

And...

Relation Change Ascendancy and the Horde are now at war with each other.
Korsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Oct 2012, 00:43   #287
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

How much would it cost to buy the game from Jagex? The amount the community pays each round for credits/sms's/ phone bots and servers is quite alot of money.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Oct 2012, 04:28   #288
Cochese
Retired
 
Cochese's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Back Porch Bar
Posts: 2,593
Cochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond reputeCochese has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

I'm thinking if they wouldn't sell it back to Spinner, they won't sell it to you (us).
__________________
I'd rather be fishing.

Utterly useless since r3
Cochese is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Oct 2012, 10:31   #289
t3k
The Video Guy
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
t3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond reputet3k has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Spinner represents realistic competition, though. It's the difference between selling off borderline assets to a direct competitor and selling them to independent hobbyists.
__________________
Writing lists and taking names.
t3k is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Oct 2012, 20:06   #290
[DDK]gm
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 898
[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future[DDK]gm has a brilliant future
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

only thing of value is the url and name
__________________
R4-5 DDK
R6 Vanx
R7-R10 FAnG
R10 Eclipse
R10.5-R13 FAnG
R20-23 CT
R23 (CT BG) ToF
R24-R82... CT
[DDK]gm is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 20 Oct 2012, 20:20   #291
Tiamat101
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 846
Tiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the roughTiamat101 is a jewel in the rough
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Also the Code/combat engine. Thats really where the worth is.
__________________
R50-55 Faceless
Tiamat101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 23 Oct 2012, 21:04   #292
Spinner
Founder of Planetarion
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 543
Spinner has a brilliant futureSpinner has a brilliant futureSpinner has a brilliant futureSpinner has a brilliant futureSpinner has a brilliant futureSpinner has a brilliant futureSpinner has a brilliant futureSpinner has a brilliant futureSpinner has a brilliant futureSpinner has a brilliant futureSpinner has a brilliant future
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Appoco, dont apologize, you could not know it would take them 2 years to reveal their plans, seriously.
Tiamat, trust me, the combat code isn't worth much anf it will be one of the first things to go when, or if, this game will be modernized. Jagex has been through tough times, I doubt there will be made serious efforts with Planetarion, Im guessing adding facebook-support and a marginal gui-facelift, and thats that. Might be enough though ofc. Surely one can hope for at least that.
__________________
- Spinner
Original creator of Planetarion, ManagerLeague and AD2460.
Spinner is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 25 Oct 2012, 18:50   #293
Mistwraith
Bad Girl
 
Mistwraith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: right here..right now
Posts: 1,055
Mistwraith has much to be proud ofMistwraith has much to be proud ofMistwraith has much to be proud ofMistwraith has much to be proud ofMistwraith has much to be proud ofMistwraith has much to be proud ofMistwraith has much to be proud ofMistwraith has much to be proud ofMistwraith has much to be proud of
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

I agree spinner, but Appoco is the main point of reference for contact with the owners so hes getting the flak, in the current world economic climate the only buisness's getting fat are the ones who deal with insolvency and firms going bust.
As i've said before, yes they've done nothing nor announced any plans, but they havent just dropped it either.
I'm still optimistic that no news is good news for now.
Surviving ecomonic downturn is probably the best any buisness can hope for, you dont have to own one to realise this, just walk down your high street and look at the dead stores.
You know this from experience, i doubt many others on this thread do.
__________________
R1 - noob
R2,3,4, - ICD | R5 -ICD HC |R6 - HR Command | R7 - HR Command/NoS
R8,9,9.5,- HR HC /NoS Exec | R10 - HR HC | R10.5 - HR HC (FYTFO with LCH)
R11 -> NOW HR HC
(a round history not condusive to suceeding in exams, having a life or much sleep )
I'm not misunderstood ... I'm EVIL
Mistwraith is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26 Oct 2012, 15:15   #294
oil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Internet
Posts: 318
oil is a splendid one to beholdoil is a splendid one to beholdoil is a splendid one to beholdoil is a splendid one to beholdoil is a splendid one to beholdoil is a splendid one to beholdoil is a splendid one to behold
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Well if spinner has any experience with economic downturns it sure didn't come during the early 2000's, an economic bubble during which he decided to start asking 15 year olds to pay on credit card to play a game they'd previously been playing for free.

Jolt don't care and aren't going to start caring, everyone knows it. The only real question is why such a close knit community can't band together and simply hold jagex to ransom.. Ask for the domain at a reasonable price, or have all players boycott the game. Alliance HCs talk to each other all the time. Why not put a vote to your members and get something going!
oil is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26 Oct 2012, 19:04   #295
Appocomaster
PA Team
 
Appocomaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,449
Appocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus wouldAppocomaster spreads love and joy to the forum in the same way Jesus would
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil View Post
Well if spinner has any experience with economic downturns it sure didn't come during the early 2000's, an economic bubble during which he decided to start asking 15 year olds to pay on credit card to play a game they'd previously been playing for free.

Jolt don't care and aren't going to start caring, everyone knows it. The only real question is why such a close knit community can't band together and simply hold jagex to ransom.. Ask for the domain at a reasonable price, or have all players boycott the game. Alliance HCs talk to each other all the time. Why not put a vote to your members and get something going!
I think they mean that Spinner allegedly had to start charging after the company who was meant to be paying Planetarion for putting adverts on it went bankrupt. Hence, he had to start charging and learnt the hard way what it took to survive during a downturn.

Jolt haven't owned the game since about 2008. They were taken over by OMAC, who sold it to "Renegade Games" (Fubra and "zPeti" partnership) after originally threatening to discontinue it, who sold it to Jagex after he tried and failed to make several changes, sold it to Jagex. Planetarion's revenue probably makes up < 1% of Jagex's profit;
__________________
r8-10 RaH r10.5-12 MISTU
Appocomaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26 Oct 2012, 22:56   #296
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiamat101 View Post
How much would it cost to buy the game from Jagex? The amount the community pays each round for credits/sms's/ phone bots and servers is quite alot of money.
This has been thought off, and we it was a disussion going on two rounds ago about a "player owned game"
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 26 Oct 2012, 23:55   #297
Korsan
Always MadcowS
 
Korsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Korsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the rough
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil View Post
Alliance HCs talk to each other all the time. Why not put a vote to your members and get something going!
I strongly support this. Maybe an open letter on behalf of the community signed by all alliance HCs is a good idea?
__________________
[Flash][Madcows][Howling Rain][Vision][Osiris][horde][xVx]

And...

Relation Change Ascendancy and the Horde are now at war with each other.
Korsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Oct 2012, 17:32   #298
Trunks
Fear The Reaper
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newcastle, UK
Posts: 41
Trunks is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

I would suggest trying to play hard ball would be the wrong option here. They OBVIOUSLY don't give a shit about the community, hence the no communication.

And as Apocco has mentioned, holding them to ransom over over the money won't make a difference either - its a drop in the ocean to a company like that.

I don't have a better idea, though.. other than to just keep playing PA and let Apocco handle it. Eventually we will have something, either way.
__________________
Ministreeeeehhh!!!111oneone
Trunks is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Oct 2012, 21:07   #299
Korsan
Always MadcowS
 
Korsan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 439
Korsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the roughKorsan is a jewel in the rough
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Why don't they just fking sell it if they don't care? That's the point i dont get...
__________________
[Flash][Madcows][Howling Rain][Vision][Osiris][horde][xVx]

And...

Relation Change Ascendancy and the Horde are now at war with each other.
Korsan is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 27 Oct 2012, 22:26   #300
BloodyButcher
Propaganda Chief
 
BloodyButcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Under the Rainbow
Posts: 4,740
BloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud ofBloodyButcher has much to be proud of
Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
Why don't they just fking sell it if they don't care? That's the point i dont get...
They obviously get a few bucks for it every round, so why would they? It has no maintance cost.
__________________
RainbowS

RB Ely MISTU Angel Fusi0n 1up ToF VisioN CT FAnG ROCK
BloodyButcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:57.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018