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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 12:04   #1
Kan3
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Prelaunch discussion...again

-Fix the interface. It's inconsistent and full of errors.
-Implement a mobile/tablet interface.
-Ditch the ETD race.
-Consolidate the vast number of scans & bring back Military Scans.
-Ditch the ability to fake launch.
-Ditch pre launching.

That'll make it a better game.
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 13:06   #2
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

kan3 im one of those people who fails to see how removing Pl would improve the game.

all it would do is create a 2 tier system within the game due to some of us having too much responsibility etc to actually live launch any more.

so all that would do is mean the live launchers would always win, as the rest of us would not be able to compete.
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 13:44   #3
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

I agree with Kan3 on this one - and have done since the idea of PL was first mooted ( http://pirate.planetarion.com/showpo...7&postcount=11 ). However, there are almost as many threads on this subject as there are on alliance limits - shall we move this discussion to one of those?
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 15:30   #4
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baddars View Post
kan3 im one of those people who fails to see how removing Pl would improve the game.

all it would do is create a 2 tier system within the game due to some of us having too much responsibility etc to actually live launch any more.

so all that would do is mean the live launchers would always win, as the rest of us would not be able to compete.
Not saying i agree with Kan3, but i've spoken to him about this.

The reason he wants to remove the pl is because he think it will have the opposite effect of what you say. He wants to move the part of the gameplay that happens at night towards daytime.
I told him that will never happen with the current playerbase. (not sure if he belives me tho )
I also told him Appoco tryed to remove pl a few rounds ago and that it had the opposite effect of what he wants it to be.

Not sure how removing PL would affect the gameplay if the amount of players was multipled by 10x tho. Can those who (think they) know it please enlight us?
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 16:16   #5
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

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Originally Posted by Illusion View Post
I also told him Appoco tryed to remove pl a few rounds ago and that it had the opposite effect of what he wants it to be.
Where is the data that shows this? I call bullshit. I'd say it had the right effect but the whining voices were loud enough to get it changed back.
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 17:23   #6
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

As far as I remember, Remy kindly provided some numbers about CT's incomings, both from the round with limited PL and from some rounds with full PL, and they definitely showed that attacks were coming in at more varied times without PL than with PL, which is evidence in favour of the notion that fully removing PL would help make PA a game that's not just played at night.

Two important caveats to note are:

1) It was only limited PL, not no PL. The effects of removing PL altogether could be different (though I don't see why).

2) Nothing about those numbers can be used as evidence against Baddars' argument about removing PL creating a two tiered system of live night launchers who always land and live day launchers who never land. (I'm exaggerating, but the point should be clear.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Illusion View Post
Not sure how removing PL would affect the gameplay if the amount of players was multipled by 10x tho. Can those who (think they) know it please enlight us?
I think PL makes the game significantly worse for a PA with a recent influx of 10k players, simply because a game that is only exciting when you're not actually there to play it just doesn't seem like a lot of fun to me.

Further, if the game consisted of 97% newbies, then it doesn't actually matter if the remaining 3% (the same 300 hardcore players we have now) are hardcore night launchers: even if they all launch 3 solo attacks a night, then it still would take 11 days for them to hit all the newbies once. Compare that to the current situation wherein the game is 20% hardcore players, who could hit all the newbies 15 times in the same 11 days.

And finally, a newbie-rich game could potentially be popular in more parts of the world than just Europe, which renders the whole 'night launch' thing meaningless. Having PL in a game where night is nothing special makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 21:07   #7
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

We removed PL partly. What happened? People didn't like it. Accept it.

There was a reason for why PL was introduced. After 2-3 rounds without PL you'd see 1 or 2 alliances dominating everything else. We have all seen this and PL was introduced to prevent this. Now you want to go back and you think something different will happen?
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Unread 28 Jun 2012, 22:12   #8
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

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Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
We removed PL partly. What happened? People didn't like it. Accept it.

There was a reason for why PL was introduced. After 2-3 rounds without PL you'd see 1 or 2 alliances dominating everything else. We have all seen this and PL was introduced to prevent this. Now you want to go back and you think something different will happen?
Ultores have won the last 4 rounds, 3 of them with prelaunch. Is this supposed to be some sort of point in favour?

Begone, cheater. Plenty of people liked being able to play more of the game when they were awake.
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 09:39   #9
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

having PL is in my eyes 1 of the reasons this game is so boring and has a great impact on the fact that the game is also slowly dieing..

im not saying that removing PL does give u back 10k players, that train has already left.. what im saying is, that the gameplay must be made fit for every single player that is here, weather he/she is from Americas, Australia, India or Europe..

when we tryed a round with reduced PL times, we already saw the play switching.. the fact that ND/CT lost ability to play a game where they CAN NOT LAUNCH AT SOMEONE THAT IS SLEEPING WHILE THEY ARE SLEEPING THEMSELVES AS WELL was a tradegy for them, but i really dont understand why the heck appoco changed it back again to +12 PL automode shit game play
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 10:10   #10
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

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Originally Posted by Shev View Post
Where is the data that shows this? I call bullshit. I'd say it had the right effect but the whining voices were loud enough to get it changed back.
It was not "loud voices" that made me see it that way.
It was most players i spoke to said they sat alarms to live launch at night rather than launching before going to bed or when waking up in the morning.

But I do hope you are right, and I'm wrong tho.
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 11:06   #11
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Despite being my GC, I can still disagree with Illusion :P

I stopped playing this game in round 9.5 and began playing again towards the last few weeks of last round. That's quite a lot of years without playing Planetarion.

I am in a successful galaxy and alliance this round and am proud to say I have some great people around me whilst I get back into the "swing" of Planetarion. The community spirit that I was a huge part of 7/8+ years ago is still there and thriving, it's just got a lot older, had families, moved home, got jobs etc. But they will come back.... if there is encouragement to do so.

I have spoken to a number of people I used to play Planetarion with who haven't played in several years either. These are all people who I still keep in contact with from time to time. Most of them share my feelings; that the prospect of playing Planetarion again isn't "dead and buried," but the game does need to take a big step in the right direction.

One of the changes that returning players WANT is to shift the game from the "night time only" mode that it's run in for so long. Something has to be done by the game's development team to alleviate the necessity of playing at unsociable hours.

To a new player, or a returning player who now has family, children and a job, the prospect of playing a game (remember play games for FUN) that requires activity during the night or by way of pre-launching (come on... what fun is there in letting the game play itself for you) is not an attractive one. Why would new players want to play a game that plays itself by way of pre launching? There is no fun or point in that whatsoever.

I quit Planetarion before the need to launch at 2/3am GMT was necessary. We could easily play, be successful, have fun during the day time and at night if we so wished. The community was fantastic both inside Planetarion and outside of it. By giving in to the whims of the hardcore 300 or so players and implementing features such as pre launch, this game WILL ONLY EVER BE GOOD FOR THE HARDCORE player base. So that rules out any flesh blood being interested in starting or old players returning to Planetarion.

Quite simply, this game NEEDS to be re designed to be accessible/playable by current, new, and returning players if it stands any hope of resuscitating the ailing player base. Adding new features only aimed at the hardcore, designing it around alliances etc, will only strangulate, and you may as well start digging a 6ft deep hole now.

Now on a personal note, I am considering not bothering with next round. I have come to a game that is totally unplayable by "noobs," returning players (good or bad), and solo players. I've been back for one round and already am considering my future due to the train-wreck that is the playability of Planetarion. The only way to improve this is to increase player base, by reverting some of the disastrous changes that have been implemented over the years. And the only way we can do that is to let somebody run it who understands the game better than the current owners and admins.

I would be prepared to back Christian in his endeavours to obtain ownership of Planetarion as I KNOW he has the ability, and knowledge to turn this wreck around. I would even be prepared to assist where I can with the efforts. So who's with me?

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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 12:51   #12
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shev View Post
Ultores have won the last 4 rounds, 3 of them with prelaunch. Is this supposed to be some sort of point in favour?

Begone, cheater. Plenty of people liked being able to play more of the game when they were awake.
Uh you hurt me..

Ult won the last 4 rounds, yes. Does this mean it cant get worse? Besides I'd like to ask how many of the Ultores members had to live launch as I think PL was forbidden or not liked there.
Any alliance able to get all the hardcore live launch people wins easily. And now you are going to remove PL completely so the people who already suck against those hardcore are being punished even more? Even with my awesome cheating abilities I wouldn't be able to match with them.

And the reason it got abandoned again was the player drop I think. Many players were not able to play it, including me. Alliances shift their attacks for 2 ticks. That still was impossible for me to reach like for many others.

I know you are all so pro and Shev in particular is so cool he doesn't even need sleep. But not all of us live in a country where we have 24hrs sunshine/night and thus being insomniac enough to sit in front of our pcs waiting for the launch tick.
You guys up there might enjoy this. I don't see anything fun about it. Live launchers have already an advantage, they already are better than the rest. So why change it even more in their favour? You think PA has too many members to spare by going such a unliked path?
Your awesome company leading skills which you achieved sitting in front of your pc would ve very much liked at Jagex. Why not apply there? You could save PA with your brillant ideas!
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 13:03   #13
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

The player drop from round 44 to round 45 was so big (300 players) for the most part because round 44 was free. Even in a dying game, that still boosts the number of players by about 150-200. In the grand scheme of things, the drop from 43 to 45 was a little larger than average, but not significantly so, and there's certainly no serious proof that it was caused by limiting prelaunch.

As for how "pro" we all are... not that your wit isn't entertaining to read or anything, but for most of the time that I played (say, round 23 or 24 onwards), I used prelaunch. That includes all but one of the rounds that Ascendancy won. I'm sure you'll find some other ad hominem to fling at us, though.
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 13:14   #14
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
Uh you hurt me..

Ult won the last 4 rounds, yes. Does this mean it cant get worse? Besides I'd like to ask how many of the Ultores members had to live launch as I think PL was forbidden or not liked there.
Any alliance able to get all the hardcore live launch people wins easily. And now you are going to remove PL completely so the people who already suck against those hardcore are being punished even more? Even with my awesome cheating abilities I wouldn't be able to match with them.

And the reason it got abandoned again was the player drop I think. Many players were not able to play it, including me. Alliances shift their attacks for 2 ticks. That still was impossible for me to reach like for many others.

I know you are all so pro and Shev in particular is so cool he doesn't even need sleep. But not all of us live in a country where we have 24hrs sunshine/night and thus being insomniac enough to sit in front of our pcs waiting for the launch tick.
You guys up there might enjoy this. I don't see anything fun about it. Live launchers have already an advantage, they already are better than the rest. So why change it even more in their favour? You think PA has too many members to spare by going such a unliked path?
Your awesome company leading skills which you achieved sitting in front of your pc would ve very much liked at Jagex. Why not apply there? You could save PA with your brillant ideas!
Loads of prelaunches in Ultores. As for the rest of your post (I was going to call it trolling but that would require it to be controversial enough to merit an emotional response, like cheating does for you), I don't get up to attack, and I don't want to have to be awake to organise defence while people who get to attack me can sleep while launching. I don't see how that is difficult to grasp.
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 16:14   #15
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

I already managed to write quite a long response, but decidee its not worth the effort, so:

This shit aint talked about to ruin ure round, it has a bit higher priority than that.

Also, it is indeed hard to succeed when ppl whine like little kids and do not even try to deal with the new system.. thats the place where everyone needs to look into the mirror and try to improve

Im one of the ultores daily prelauncher and would not take part of any night attacks (maybe only on weekends when foming from the pub at night or something), yet i strongly approve the removal of autoplay (read: prelaunch mostly).. How would i deal with it? I fcking adapt to new system
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 16:15   #16
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

This is also why this game needs someone strong to run it, who can also deal with unpopular desicions?
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 17:28   #17
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

there are plenty of people out there who wouldnt play if prelaunch was removed as they have no desire to get up at 3/4am every morning and see not point playing when you have such a massive disadvantage.

the only way it would be workable is with a much bigger player base that is spread out across the planet. this way, attacks would be spread out.

but as many others, and myself, have said before. no small changes to the game will draw in the numbers required to make PA fun again. only advertising will achieve that.
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 18:26   #18
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

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Originally Posted by Reincarnate View Post
there are plenty of people out there who wouldnt play if prelaunch was removed as they have no desire to get up at 3/4am every morning and see not point playing when you have such a massive disadvantage.
Why should people have to get up at that time to organize or send defence then? I really don't see how that makes any sense.
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 18:53   #19
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

because there are plenty of people that will get up to launch at that time.....

unless you think everyone will agree to not attack in the early hours of the euro morning?
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 19:10   #20
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Yes, but fewer launches mean fewer people forced to get up to deal with them. Once again, pretty obvious.

Make Planetarion a game played by people when they are awake, not one where "people" think they can only be successful if their opposition is asleep. Which is pretty pathetic, when you think about it.
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 20:27   #21
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

this is gettin ridiculous.. ppl just dont even put in a little effort to understand the idea behind this

NOONE tells u to come around at 03:00 game time to launch when u usually wake at 06:00 game time.. please understand that, this is not an order or somethign that u must definately do

what u need is a decent management by ure alliance to make 1, 2 or even more alliance raids on various times to fulfill their alliance attacking potentsial.. which altogether ideally results in having more various gameplay in terms of attacking as well
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 20:34   #22
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shev View Post
Yes, but fewer launches mean fewer people forced to get up to deal with them. Once again, pretty obvious.

Make Planetarion a game played by people when they are awake, not one where "people" think they can only be successful if their opposition is asleep. Which is pretty pathetic, when you think about it.
this actually is a god damn good point..

if u remove PL, then yes, alot of fleets that are atm PL`ed +6, wont launch as they are doing atm.. those planets are not sending any defence during nights neways either, so theres actually no fcking disadvantage to ANY players..

go outside, take a deep breath and try to understand at last fs :P

whats the fun atm if i may ask? if ure a +6 launcher then ure gameplay is the following:
1. u PL 1-2 att fleets at 23:00 game time
2. go to sleep
3. wake up at 06:00 game time
4. request a few scans
5. calc
6. recall/land

and ure doing all that during night for what purpouse?

if ure doing dayraids, then yes, u might have a bigger resistance in defence.. but this is where u and ure alliance must be good.. u must organise things and if ure around to do that (if ure a prelaunched then thats not the case during nights, u come around when its eta 3-4) then its actually more fun as well.. lets say u wanna retal or fc someone that launched at u or ure alliance durning night.. then u go for it.. if it fails, u get to recall and relaunch to someone else or do whatever else is being done at that time

dosent this also sound a bit more fun for u? to me it does
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 23:43   #23
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

You are going to shift the attack times (by forbidding PL) to daytimes? Ok, do that.
But it seems nobody cares about the chances of a daytime attack with THE CURRENT PLAYER NUMBERS!
No PL only works with higher numbers. The 1 no pl round (was it r44?) showed me i am absolutely not able to play a game like that. I have familiy, work and studies to care. I cannot break my sleep just to send some ships away. I don't understand why there is so much opposition against it.
Yes with no PL people can launch at daytime. And they will. But will they land as efficient as night time attackers will? Only those who are insomniac enough to launch at night times regardless will be competing for top ranks, not those who spend their fights with daytimes. This is really not hard to understand as it was even experienced before PL was added to the game.
You can only hear those people moaning about PL that prefer live launch because they actually can do this for whatever their reason is.

Let's think a step further:
There will be always alliances setting up attack times. No HC will be that dumb to set the attack times to daytimes when the majority of the players are active and able to coordinate defense. The HCs simply won't do this! They will have one hardcore attack and one attack for the rest which nobody will care about. The game will be even more seperated into the hardcore camp and the relaxed camp.
I understand that hardcore people strongly support no PL but please be so kind to think about the player base which apparently don't like to play like that.

And Shev I would be pleased if you'd stop being such an annoying kid about me. What have I done to you? Why do you troll about that "cheating" thing every fking time you talk to me? Is it just to fill your lifetime with insulting people? Keep a discussion objective for once dude! I don't even know you so wtf is your problem? I didn't even know you exist until you trolled at me constantly on this forum. I'd be pleased if you'd simply reveal your reasons for this kiddy shit.

If you can't participate in a discussion without personal insults then just don't participate. Go to your parents and kindly ask them to teach you some social skills, behaviour and manners. Your constand sidestabs in every post of yours ("cheater") don't interest me much and everyone in here is fine with that with the exception of "Mr I have nothing else to do than holding a grudge on someone I don't even know, I haven't ever spoken, I haven't ever played with". Seriously, you don't know me dude so act like that please!
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Unread 29 Jun 2012, 23:53   #24
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

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Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
And Shev I would be pleased if you'd stop being such an annoying kid about me. What have I done to you? Why do you troll about that "cheating" thing every fking time you talk to me? Is it just to fill your lifetime with insulting people? Keep a discussion objective for once dude!

If you can't participate in a discussion without personal insults then just don't participate. Go to your parents and kindly ask them to teach you some social skills, behaviour and manners. Your constand sidestabs in every post of yours ("cheater") don't interest me much and everyone in here is fine with that with the exception of "Mr I have nothing else to do than holding a grudge on someone I don't even know, I haven't ever spoken, I haven't ever played with". Seriously, you don't know me dude so act like that please!
You might want to reread your own previous posts before getting on your high horse, specifically the previous one in this very thread! Maybe your parents have work to do as well...

Quote:
You can only hear those people moaning about PL that prefer live launch because they actually can do this for whatever their reason is.
I moan about prelaunch, and I do not live launch (and did not during the night in round 44). There we go, yet another incorrect statement disproved. (Oh, and despite you claiming "the elite" are against prelaunch, you finished 40th that round, I was 189th - so really, I'm standing up for the little guys here.)

I repeat: Make Planetarion a game played by people when they are awake, not one where "people" think they can only be successful if their opposition is asleep. Which is pretty pathetic, when you think about it.
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Unread 30 Jun 2012, 00:02   #25
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

So it was me who said "begone cheater" out of nothing?
"You said it first" is exactly the kiddy stuff I was expecting from you.

Peace out, I go sleep now. Have fun staying awake all night once again. You'll need this ability when someone from Jagex ever listens to you.
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Unread 30 Jun 2012, 00:08   #26
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

I didn't say "You said it first", I said you were guilty of exactly what you were telling me not to do. I've got some more advice, try reading what's posted rather than what you want to see.

Why would I need to stay awake all night if Jagex changed it? I want that change, I'm sure as hell not going to be up when I don't have to be. You elitists are all the same, expecting others to be awake all night just because you are.

I notice you have no comeback to the actual points made in my post - yet again you wanted to make it personal rather than actually answering constructively.
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Unread 30 Jun 2012, 07:53   #27
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

It's really quite amazing how selectively blind Korsan is to Shev saying "I don't live launch".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
Shev in particular is so cool he doesn't even need sleep.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shev View Post
I don't get up to attack
Over...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
You can only hear those people moaning about PL that prefer live launch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shev View Post
I moan about prelaunch, and I do not live launch
And over...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
Have fun staying awake all night once again.
And over.
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Unread 30 Jun 2012, 11:01   #28
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

The last few posts on this thread pretty much sum it up for me. This game is going nowhere fast due to the ineptitude of it's owners. It has had the chances pulled out from under it's feet. I'm certainly not coming back next round. I had hoped to restart my Planetarion career as had some others I know, but seeing this mess, the chances are zero.

Shame on you Jagex and PA admins for not having the balls to turn this into somethig great again. You'll never win new players over with the current mess that is Planetarion.

Sorry.

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Unread 30 Jun 2012, 15:31   #29
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shev View Post
Yes, but fewer launches mean fewer people forced to get up to deal with them. Once again, pretty obvious.

Make Planetarion a game played by people when they are awake, not one where "people" think they can only be successful if their opposition is asleep. Which is pretty pathetic, when you think about it.
yeah let's all play simtarion
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Unread 30 Jun 2012, 19:16   #30
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
As for how "pro" we all are... not that your wit isn't entertaining to read or anything, but for most of the time that I played (say, round 23 or 24 onwards), I used prelaunch. That includes all but one of the rounds that Ascendancy won. I'm sure you'll find some other ad hominem to fling at us, though.
What was your highest rank mz?
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Unread 30 Jun 2012, 19:53   #31
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

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Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
What was your highest rank mz?
The supreme argument right there.

Is this going to "You finished 5th at best and I finished 2nd so I know better!1111oneoneone"?
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Unread 30 Jun 2012, 19:57   #32
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Whoever made the point about having to wake up and send defence when the attacker just PLed and is fast asleep when the attack is actually sent is right!

In wars the attacker gets the advantage by doing a suprise attack, yet in this "war game" there's no difference between PL your attack and live launching your attack. You still get pretty much the same advantage, apart from the defender knows that he is going to be attacked at some point.

I think to solve this in the JGP scan if the attacker has PLed, the defender should be able to see what tick it is going to arrive, then he can PL his defence! Why should the attacker be able to have a nice sleep while attacking yet the defender has to wake up?

This will give the advantage back to the live launch attacker because then he can PL his attack and then change the attack at last minute so as to counter the PLed defence.

Edit: Furthermore, the defender can send fr/de to defend against PLed fi/co attacks, then the live launching attacker gets the advantage again by the defender not being able to PL fr/de against his fi/co attack.
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Unread 30 Jun 2012, 21:43   #33
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by [JungleMuffin] View Post
What was your highest rank mz?
10th. With prelaunch! Pretty crazy.
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Unread 30 Jun 2012, 22:41   #34
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Thanks Myz for playing Shev's mommy.
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Unread 30 Jun 2012, 22:46   #35
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shev View Post
I didn't say "You said it first", I said you were guilty of exactly what you were telling me not to do. I've got some more advice, try reading what's posted rather than what you want to see.

Why would I need to stay awake all night if Jagex changed it? I want that change, I'm sure as hell not going to be up when I don't have to be. You elitists are all the same, expecting others to be awake all night just because you are.

I notice you have no comeback to the actual points made in my post - yet again you wanted to make it personal rather than actually answering constructively.
Like you calling me straight a cheater out of nowhere? That wasn't personal, right? Like answering constructively when I asked what your problem with me is? What again did you answer on my questions 3 posts ago? Go cry to Myz via PM I am sure he's willing to help you with another fresh post to post analyze.
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Unread 30 Jun 2012, 23:33   #36
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

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Originally Posted by Korsan View Post
Thanks Myz for playing Shev's mommy.
There's no reason to act so childish. I recognize there are some arguments for keeping prelaunch, and have even listed caveats to my own arguments for abolishing it. I guess you failed to read that, just like you failed to read every other post in the thread so far.

P.S. The reason he's not answering your questions is because he's trolling you (and it's working).
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Unread 1 Jul 2012, 02:02   #37
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

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Originally Posted by Mzyxptlk View Post
P.S. The reason he's not answering your questions is because he's trolling you (and it's working).
Thanks for confirming what I said.
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Unread 3 Jul 2012, 00:38   #38
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
yeah let's all play simtarion
I can't see how that makes any sense at all, can you elaborate? I don't see how attackers and defenders both being awake means "Simtarion".

I didn't see any criticism of the world cups or speedround on that basis.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott View Post
I think to solve this in the JGP scan if the attacker has PLed, the defender should be able to see what tick it is going to arrive, then he can PL his defence! Why should the attacker be able to have a nice sleep while attacking yet the defender has to wake up?
This would go some way to fixing the issues I have with prelaunch.
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Unread 3 Jul 2012, 05:40   #39
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

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I can't see how that makes any sense at all, can you elaborate? I don't see how attackers and defenders both being awake means "Simtarion".
It was aimed at the 'fewer launches' bit. Fewer launches automatically means a higher amount of ppl playing simtarion. The round with limitted PL i ended up playing simtarion and ended just outside of the top 100.

I agree this game should get more action during the daytime for normal players. However, just removing PL isn't gonna fix that, it will just create more elitism.
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Unread 3 Jul 2012, 05:56   #40
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

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Originally Posted by neroon View Post
the fact that ND/CT lost ability to play a game where they CAN NOT LAUNCH AT SOMEONE THAT IS SLEEPING WHILE THEY ARE SLEEPING THEMSELVES AS WELL was a tradegy for them
They are 2 80 man tags... if even half of them decided that without PL they couldnt play then thats another 80 people gone from PA plus the average 40 a round anyway. You would be near 600 signups then...
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Unread 3 Jul 2012, 07:35   #41
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Re: Prelaunch discussion...again

Personally I can understand why people are against prelaunch, it doesnt fit their own perception of what Planetarion is, and does not appeal to the current playingbase. However, is the real targetgroup of this game people aged 25+ with a full time job and a mortage to pay?

I think that prelaunches should be removed in its entirety to appeal to a lower aged playing audience.
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Unread 3 Jul 2012, 08:39   #42
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

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Originally Posted by Influence View Post
It was aimed at the 'fewer launches' bit. Fewer launches automatically means a higher amount of ppl playing simtarion. The round with limitted PL i ended up playing simtarion and ended just outside of the top 100.

I agree this game should get more action during the daytime for normal players. However, just removing PL isn't gonna fix that, it will just create more elitism.
The context of what I was saying was about night launches, not overall launches. There is an argument that overall launches might decrease, but I wouldn't say it was absolutely certain.

I still don't understand why "elitism" only applies to attack and not defence.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
Personally I can understand why people are against prelaunch, it doesnt fit their own perception of what Planetarion is, and does not appeal to the current playingbase. However, is the real targetgroup of this game people aged 25+ with a full time job and a mortage to pay?

I think that prelaunches should be removed in its entirety to appeal to a lower aged playing audience.
I am in a full time job, mortgage to pay, over 25. I am against prelaunch precisely because it would lessen the need for me to get up at night. I (still) would not get up to attack, I currently do have to get up to defend.

It's not got much to do with my ideals of planetarion beyond wanting to make the game more accessible and playable during daytime hours.
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Unread 3 Jul 2012, 09:17   #43
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Re: Prelaunch discussion...again

Kai, please tell me one good reason why ppl cant play nemore when pl is removed. lets keep it simple.
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Unread 3 Jul 2012, 09:27   #44
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Re: Prelaunch discussion...again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kargool View Post
Personally I can understand why people are against prelaunch, it doesnt fit their own perception of what Planetarion is, and does not appeal to the current playingbase. However, is the real targetgroup of this game people aged 25+ with a full time job and a mortage to pay?

I think that prelaunches should be removed in its entirety to appeal to a lower aged playing audience.
Spot on, I'd guess.
However, the problem is not only tied in with Prelaunch, it is the entire traveltime + all-eggs-in-one-basket + being-completely-killed-while-asleep problem.
It's fun to be up at 3 in the morning when you're a student. Not so much fun when you're not. There is a very small number of people who are willing to do so, year after year, round after round, and you, the loyal PA community, well, here you are.

When Planetarion was new, it was NEW, had relatively little competition, and could set it's own rules. That setting has changed. There are dozens of good alternatives now, and any kind of marketing-effort will not remove the problem mentioned above. ANY kind of game when you can be killed off, lose MONTHS of effort, while asleep one night, will never grow large in todays market, it just can't happen, those days are gone.

The sooner everyone realizes this, the sooner it can be changed, and the sooner PA may move forwards...Yes, I am damn aware it will no longer be "PA as we remember it", and it will make PA less "unique", but there is no choice. "Who is most awake" should not count towards score.....
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Unread 3 Jul 2012, 13:49   #45
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Re: Prelaunch discussion...again

basicly we have "run like french" implemented to planetarion these days that makes it possible for the planet to set their base fleet not to fight incase someone lands, which kind of addresses the killed-in-1-night problem..

the prelaunch thoughts and argues are from another perspective though. the idea is that at the moment 90% of the players of planetarion play like bots - they prelaunch, go to bed, wake up in 8hrs, jgp their target, calculate it, recall or land.. and this is done while the launchers themselves are asleep AND also their targets are mostly asleep..

main hours that have the main movements in planetarion therefore are set to europe nights 04:00 - 07:00 game time and thats about it apart from morning def sendings ingal and to alliance

noone demands a person that is 25 years old and has morgage to pay and baby to feed to be around durning nights IF the PL is removed.. the idea ideally would be to make the community play on more various times of the day and make things happen more around the clock.. person that can not launch at 05:00 game time due to responsibilities in real life should not feel restrained and should deal with the game on more suitable times.. this would indeed mean that the alliances that they play in, kinda support such a thing as well ofc (make morning/day raids, more retals, more fc`s, whatever there is still left to do in this game)..

when appoco removed the pL, the main thing that came out if it was that a group of ppl started to moan about how they are mistreated all of a sudden and did nothing to adapt to new type of gameplay.. therefore the project was also shut down right after the round, EVEN when there were stats that the launches had been swifting to more "europe friendly" times as well..

things take time and ppl need time to settle with new things as well, i get that.. but saying that it is all so bad without even trying is something that really gets on my nerves..

Again, I strongly want to say that I too do not think that removing PL makes planetarion "well" again all of the sudden, theres awefuly lot more needed to climb higher in player numbers, etc.. but this is something that I can see might have a good impact on the gameplay overall, compared to what we have right now.

once more, just to be sure, the idea is not to make it more easier for aussies/usa ppl, but to swift the playing times more around the clock and make it easier for the euros as well.. I also agree that there might be better ideas to make it happen, other than removig PL, but I do not have anything new to suggest from my head atm, hence i am and will be a strong supporter for the pl to be removed.. got a better idea, please let it out and make it happen, noone has nething against it, including me
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Unread 3 Jul 2012, 14:08   #46
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Re: Prelaunch discussion...again

It seems the problem is that with 8 hours, people can log on, send def/att, log off and nothing much happens.

Maybe, just maybe, the key is to have things happen MID-ATTACK/DEFENCE.

So for instance, someone could add 5% to his guns by clicking a boost every tick.
Or and this would really shake things up, allow someone who is online for first 5 ticks have a one tick jump ahead (so an eta 3 attack suddenly becomes eta 2 or something (obviously the defence should get the same advantage).
Or even a 'boost' button that gives you x5 xp each time you click it (once per tick)

I know these thoughts are way out there and I haven't put any thought into it and just heading out, but maybe some more intelligent types can come up with some ideas that make it useful to be online during an attack more than currently happens
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Unread 3 Jul 2012, 14:18   #47
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Re: Jagex - Ominously silent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence
I agree this game should get more action during the daytime for normal players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest
It seems the problem is that with 8 hours, people can log on, send def/att, log off and nothing much happens.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shev
Make Planetarion a game played by people when they are awake, not one where "people" think they can only be successful if their opposition is asleep. Which is pretty pathetic, when you think about it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kan3
Quite simply, this game NEEDS to be re designed to be accessible/playable by current, new, and returning players if it stands any hope of resuscitating the ailing player base. Adding new features only aimed at the hardcore, designing it around alliances etc, will only strangulate, and you may as well start digging a 6ft deep hole now.
There is both knowledge and wisdom aplenty here...
But is there the will to understand, focus, design and implement?
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Unread 3 Jul 2012, 14:33   #48
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Re: Prelaunch discussion...again

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
basicly we have "run like french" implemented to planetarion these days that makes it possible for the planet to set their base fleet not to fight incase someone lands, which kind of addresses the killed-in-1-night problem..
Yes and no. As I said, the problem is the combination of the 3 things I listed.
Having a safety-valve for your base fleet is very good, but what about the others? Must it be the last thing I do every night then, to move all my ships to the base fleet?

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
the prelaunch thoughts and argues are from another perspective though. the idea is that at the moment 90% of the players of planetarion play like bots - they prelaunch, go to bed, wake up in 8hrs, jgp their target, calculate it, recall or land.. and this is done while the launchers themselves are asleep AND also their targets are mostly asleep..
Which is a very booooooring and silly game, and, I repeat myself, not a game that will attract or keep users.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
noone demands a person that is 25 years old and has morgage to pay and baby to feed to be around durning nights IF the PL is removed.. the idea ideally would be to make the community play on more various times of the day and make things happen more around the clock.. person that can not launch at 05:00 game time due to responsibilities in real life should not feel restrained and should deal with the game on more suitable times..
The problem is that it is more of an advantage to play the night-game, and the hardcore players will do that...And everyone not-quite-that-hardcore will fall off...

Quote:
Originally Posted by neroon View Post
once more, just to be sure, the idea is not to make it more easier for aussies/usa ppl, but to swift the playing times more around the clock and make it easier for the euros as well..
As long as there are better and worse times in which to launch an attack, the problem will exist.

My 3 cents......
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Unread 3 Jul 2012, 14:38   #49
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Re: Prelaunch discussion...again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Forest View Post
It seems the problem is that with 8 hours, people can log on, send def/att, log off and nothing much happens.

Maybe, just maybe, the key is to have things happen MID-ATTACK/DEFENCE.

So for instance, someone could add 5% to his guns by clicking a boost every tick.
Or and this would really shake things up, allow someone who is online for first 5 ticks have a one tick jump ahead (so an eta 3 attack suddenly becomes eta 2 or something (obviously the defence should get the same advantage).
Or even a 'boost' button that gives you x5 xp each time you click it (once per tick)

I know these thoughts are way out there and I haven't put any thought into it and just heading out, but maybe some more intelligent types can come up with some ideas that make it useful to be online during an attack more than currently happens
Ouch!

Doesn't this reward the player who has nothing better to do than sit at his keyboard 24/7 and click buttons? (Yes, I am such a player but I don't think that the game should be tilted even further in my favour).

BTW - we used to have a reason for players to be online when fleets landed (both attackers and defenders) when we had 3-tick attack and 6-tick defence. Landing wasn't just a case of yes/no in those days. We had great fun working out which fleets should stay and which should pull - every tick.
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Unread 3 Jul 2012, 14:43   #50
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a possible solution to "killed in 1 night"

1. increase armor of ships/structures/roids by a factor of at least 10
2. re-introduce multi-tick combats

this makes combat slower (spread over more ticks) and gives both sides the option to recall and rescue whatever ships survived after the 1st combat tick.
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