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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 00:37   #1
wu_trax
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the french

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4491668.stm
Wasn't Napoleon kind of a bad guy?
Seriously, I wonder what they would say if we would be celebrating the 1st of September or or the 22nd of June or something like that.
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 02:06   #2
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Re: the french

Well the UK love to remind themselves about the 'Glory Days Of Empire', which clearly were full of nice acts of random kindness and gifts of fluffy kittens to youngsters as they skipped their newly shoe-clad feet to school...
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 02:30   #3
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Re: the french

Quote:
Originally Posted by wu_trax
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4491668.stm
Wasn't Napoleon kind of a bad guy?
Seriously, I wonder what they would say if we would be celebrating the 1st of September or or the 22nd of June or something like that.
No Napolean was not a bad guy (at first). He unified continental Europe for a brief time and introduced liberal policies and laws including his famous Napoleonic Code. I would argue that he has had a mostly favorable impact on European history. That was until at least he invaded Russia...then everything went downhill. He did earn the name 'Corsican Ogre' however. Those damned royalist! :/
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 11:06   #4
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Re: the french

Napoleon was an aggressive imperialist expansionist power-crazed maniac with an inferiority complex due to his diminuitive height. But then again so was alexander the great and he was well cool. Once these things happen a fair while ago and played an important role in your country's history I don't see too much wrong with random celebrations as long as you remember that he actually loads of pretty shitty things that repeating would not be a good idea.
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 13:59   #5
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Exclamation Re: the french

Dometically, Napoleon was almost certainly more enlightened in his policies than any other ruler in Europe at the time, but he was brought down by his expansionism, which eventually resulted in his reach exceeding his grasp. He wasn't a black-and-white, unambigiously 'bad' person in the same way that someone such as, say, Hitler was.

Austerlitz is probably not seen as a particularly 'good' battle to celebrate/commemorate these days in the same way that a Trafalgar or Leipzig is.

Last edited by Marilyn Manson; 3 Dec 2005 at 14:12.
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Unread 3 Dec 2005, 14:24   #6
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Re: the french

anyone who loved water slides can't be all bad
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 00:27   #7
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Re: the french

It's a battle the French won.

Fought on a cold and misty December morning 200 years ago, the Battle of Austerlitz is widely regarded as Napoleon's masterpiece.
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 00:46   #8
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Re: the french

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
It's a battle the French won.

Fought on a cold and misty December morning 200 years ago, the Battle of Austerlitz is widely regarded as Napoleon's masterpiece.
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 00:56   #9
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Re: the french

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
That he had learnt in history, one of the main reasons hitler lost the war was because he had been uneducated. Therefore he had not learnt of the Russian tactics used against Napoleon's invasion (i.e. retreating and burning the crops). At the time i didn't question why his more learned generals had not pointed this out to old adolf, but then it did take me a long time to believe that people actually lied all the time.
That's very ignorant. Napolean won every conflict through Russia until he reached Moscow and entered that (abandoned) city and burned it down. When he was unable to negotiate anything with Tsar Alexander, he left. He lost control of his troops on his way back, took a bad route back to Europe that had been destroyed and emptied of it's resources, and faced indirect attacks which so large an army could not protect itself from.

Hitler, on the other hand was successful in Russia because of his general's fast moving war operations, and ultimately unsuccessful for a variety of reasons that include the U.S. entering the war and a disagreement between Hitler and some of his most brilliant generals about giving up ground.

Those two situations have very little in common...

In the first world war, Russia was beaten quickly by the Germans on the Eastern front. (They were having some political problems back at home).
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 00:57   #10
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Exclamation Re: the french

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
It's a battle the French won.
Good point!

(an oldie, I know, but a goodie)
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 01:10   #11
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Re: the french

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Texan is back! <3
Not for long. The packers come on Wednesday. It will probably be a month or two before I find a place to live and get an Internet connection.

But back to the topic. I have not studied much French history. Did they win any battles after Napoleon?
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 03:00   #12
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Re: the french

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
Hitler, on the other hand was successful in Russia because of his general's fast moving war operations, and ultimately unsuccessful for a variety of reasons that include the U.S. entering the war and a disagreement between Hitler and some of his most brilliant generals about giving up ground.
they took poland in what, three weeks in 1939? The Allies hit western Europe summer of '44 (I guess they had already been working Italy), and Hitler still hadn't taken Moscow. How is that successful?
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 03:50   #13
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Exclamation Re: the french

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
That's very ignorant. Napolean won every conflict through Russia until he reached Moscow
Somewhat pyrrhic victories, though. Boney lost over two thirds of his army before he ever reached Moscow. He was winning and advancing, but he was losing men he couldn't replace. The Russian army, on the other hand, while losing battles and retreating was growing the whole time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
But back to the topic. I have not studied much French history. Did they win any battles after Napoleon?
A few. They briefly occupied Saarbrücken in the opening days of the Franco-Prussian war.

They had a few victories in WWI, some with the help of allies, but a few more-or-less on their own (e.g., Verdun).
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 11:37   #14
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Re: the french

Quote:
Originally Posted by horn
indeed, infact it was the "nearly bringing this up in conversation" subject that i couldn't remember when writing this thread http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=187297
Oooh I liked that thread, I have that happenen all the time. :0
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 11:39   #15
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Re: the french

Quote:
Originally Posted by acropolis
they took poland in what, three weeks in 1939? The Allies hit western Europe summer of '44 (I guess they had already been working Italy), and Hitler still hadn't taken Moscow. How is that successful?
I did say he was 'ultimately unsuccessful.'
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 15:17   #16
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Re: the french

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Napoleon was an aggressive imperialist expansionist power-crazed maniac with an inferiority complex due to his diminuitive height. But then again so was alexander the great and he was well cool. Once these things happen a fair while ago and played an important role in your country's history I don't see too much wrong with random celebrations as long as you remember that he actually loads of pretty shitty things that repeating would not be a good idea.
I don't think he had an inferiority complex because of his height

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleo...eon.27s_height
I agree with the rest though :P
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 15:24   #17
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Unread 4 Dec 2005, 20:35   #18
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Re: the french

Quote:
Originally Posted by derry
I don't think he had an inferiority complex because of his height

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleo...eon.27s_height
I agree with the rest though :P
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