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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 18:50   #51
hyfe
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by QazokRouge5
Again I find it hard to base opinions on a country of over 200 million people. Random people on the street can't speak for an entire nation.
Enough of them can.. about 1000 according to most statisticicians [arg, spelling].

Yes, it won't be very accurate, that doesn't means it's not generally true though
Quote:
As for Bush's morals, well again we felt he was the lesser of two evils. Most peoples minds are only one sided.
Well, I understand that argument.

However, trying to defend yourself with 'our election system gave us two shit candidates' still doesn't hold. You choose to use your election system, and you will be held accountable for its results!

I mean, just a simple change as allowing different parties to vote for the same candidate (as in India) would make a gigantic difference.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 18:50   #52
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by QazokRouge5
People here considered Bush the lesser of two evils, I'm afraid. Again the sad part is that most americans agree with you, but were powerless to do anything about it.
the lesser of two evils?

Bush become president in a very questionable manner, started 2 wars (one of which was illegal and for which he gained public support for by lying his ass off), took a record budget surplus and turned it into a record deficit whilst simultainiously cutting taxes, restricting a woman's right to choose and normal peoples freedom and liberties (Patriot Act) etc... etc...

What the hell was Kerry campaigning on to be worse than that? Nuclear testing on the mainland US whilst providing economic help to poor people?
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 18:51   #53
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
stuff
I didnt say it was true, i just said it was the perception.

just as an aside, how typical are you?

also, yes, as someone else said, i imagine europe is more culturally diverse than america.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 18:52   #54
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

allow me to add my unneeded, unwanted canadian opinion =]

1. Name one sole super power of the known world that hasn't had this problem. Considerable steps forward have been made since the British Empire ruled and considered many of their subjects sub-human.

2 & 4
This can be applied to every country in the world, as most people (more evident in poor nations) spend most of their time trying to survive, and are unable, or unwilling to spend limited free time to learn about countries that have little effect on their daily lives.

I guess people feel that the average american has a burden to learn about the history, culture and geography of every single country their government deals with?

Maybe someone can find a study proving americans to be less knowledgeable of these subjects then the rest of the world? It might help shed some light on the matter.

3.
Big business has huge sway on government policies -- they are rather indiffrent twords human life. I can see why that causes dislike.

5. Agreed. This ties into the war thing basically, as America sees unstability and wars occuring, it tries to take advantage of the situation to potentially benefit them. They have the power to do this and use it. A very human thing to do.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 19:08   #55
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyfe
Texan:

The European countries are far more diverse than the states in the us are.

Secondly, I think the large majority of the Europeans are fairly indifferent to the US. I imagine this holds true for GD too. However, they won't post in these threads.
I was not talking about diversity. I was trying to point out the differences in logistics for U.S. vs. European travelers. Perhaps my point was not clear.

Let me clarify.

It is much more time consuming and expensive for Americans to visit other countries than it is for Europeans to visit other countries.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 19:22   #56
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
1. I didnt say it was true, i just said it was the perception.

2. just as an aside, how typical are you?

3. also, yes, as someone else said, i imagine europe is more culturally diverse than america.
1. I understand. The problem is most Europeans' perception of the United States is not particularly accurate.

2. I would say that I am not typical of the average American, but my family is fairly typical, and they have all been to Mexico many times. My grandparents have been to Germany, Japan, France and Peru at the very least. My uncle to Germany (about 30 years ago) and one of my two cousins studied in Paris for a year and has also visited Germany two or three times. Edit: My mom went to Jamaica once, and others have visited the Bahamas. Not sure who all did that since I was living in Europe at the time.

3. Mexico is fairly different from the United States and most people I know from Dallas have been there.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 19:25   #57
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
I was not talking about diversity. I was trying to point out the differences in logistics for U.S. vs. European travelers. Perhaps my point was not clear.

Let me clarify.

It is much more time consuming and expensive for Americans to visit other countries than it is for Europeans to visit other countries.
Sorry if I misunderstood you.

However, most of the time I see that argument, its used to refute that Europeans are more travelled or have experienced more diverse cultures since Americans too travel within their own continent.

The flight to the mediterranian from Norway ain't much shorter than the flight to Mexico / South-America from about anywhere in the US though. Along the same lines parts of Asia are also extremely common tourist targets for Northern Europeans. South America is,strangely enough , also fairly popular among the spanish.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 19:27   #58
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

I too get neg repped with anti-american comments:

"go away you dumb yank, go invade korea or something and get shot in the head"

I really don't think that the rep comments should be beyond forum rules, and I think JJ needs to regulate them or I guess maybe Americans are just less welcome in this UK dominated community. Maybe it's just time for us to leave.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 19:41   #59
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
2. My grandparents have been to Germany, Japan, Korea, Vietnam and Iraq
Fixed

(sorry )
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 19:46   #60
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by hyfe
1. Sorry if I misunderstood you.

2. However, most of the time I see that argument, its used to refute that Europeans are more travelled or have experienced more diverse cultures since Americans too travel within their own continent.

3. The flight to the mediterranian from Norway ain't much shorter than the flight to Mexico / South-America from about anywhere in the US though. Along the same lines parts of Asia are also extremely common tourist targets for Northern Europeans. South America is,strangely enough , also fairly popular among the spanish.
1. No problem.

2. I'm fairly certain that the average European has experienced more diverse cultures than the Average American. Europeans also generally get a bit more vacation time than Americans, so probably on average travel more.

3. I was going to check flight times from Norway to Crete and New York to Acapulco (as examples), but it just wasn't worth the time. I suspect that New York to Acapulco might be an hour longer. I'm a lazy vacationer. I prefer to go to the Canary Islands to play golf, look at girls in bikinis and drink beer. That's my idea of a perfect vacation. In Maspalomas, Gran Canaria, there was the beach where the girls did not have bikinis and the golf course was a 15 minute walk from my hotel. That was even better. Though, they did run out of German Erdinger beer while I was there. I guess they did not know to stock up because I was coming.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 19:47   #61
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deepflow
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You can always adopt.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 19:52   #62
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
I too get neg repped with anti-american comments:

"go away you dumb yank, go invade korea or something and get shot in the head"

I really don't think that the rep comments should be beyond forum rules, and I think JJ needs to regulate them or I guess maybe Americans are just less welcome in this UK dominated community. Maybe it's just time for us to leave.

Have you not considered the possibility that *you* are not welcome in this community (by some of its members at least) and that your nationality is just a handy stick to poke you with?


It is, how ever, true that some actions of the US goverment and sections of the US population are looked upon with a certain degree of pity/mocking/weariness e.g the whole Freedom Fries (gotta be caps'd ) debacle or the OMG noes a nipple!!! Half time show.

Ninja_spammer too lazy to log out and back in as himself direct all neg/pos rep at that account not this one or I'll never hear the end of it.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 19:55   #63
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Someone left me a rep that said funniest laugh I've ever seen.

Therein reinforcing my point. Thank you anonomous repper.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 20:03   #64
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

If every poster from the United States was like Tactitus then there wouldn't be a problem.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 20:05   #65
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

I travel to the US a fair bit (for long stints so its not yay yay holiday holiday time all the time) and Ive visited various areas (DC, Baltimore, Parts of virginia and maryland, Florida both east west north and south etc etc)

Americans are some of the most hospitable people your ever likely to meet. On the whole they remind me a bit of children at times. They are nieve and not 'damaged goods' like many europeans (particularly the french) are when it comes to meeting people. They dont tend to mistrust you or think bad of you just based on where your from. Most of them embrase you with open arms.

The warmth i have yet to find elsewhere in the world bar maybe Britain. There is very little 'snootyness' which you find on the continent. (not all the time but you know what i mean by this if youve ever travelled around europe. most are nice but theres a fair number who act like you are satan himself if your not a native)

The problem many europeans have is not actually with Americans themselves but with America as a whole. It is not the way of life. It is not the vast military might or its massive economy. It is the way in which American ideas and 'way of doing things' has been pushed upon the world. The foreign police of the United States has been both hypocritcal and driven by highly conservative politicans backed by large corporations (in itself a suspicous coupling of politics and money).


Europe itself was once the most powerful and feared continent on Earth. Noone dared stand in the way of European supremacy. Along with the French, Germans and Spanish we British conquered half the world and laid waste to anyone who dared oppose us. Those days have past. World Wars 1 and 2 made sure of that. European military might was decimated and instead we relied upon America whilst we rebuilt.

This has led to a somewhat odd relationship. America continues to protect europe with its powerful military. It offered unreserved protection during the Cold War and continues to provide the 'attack on one is an attack on all'. For britain and france this may nto be a huge issue because of nuclear weapons. However America is still there and steps in when we decide to fight a battle. Noone dares threatens Europe in any real sense because we are fundamentally protected.

However the protection of modern times is somewhat different and irrelevant to the protection offered during the cold war. During this period Europe rebuilt its economy (as a whole) and blossomed into the Economic giant we see today. America stood by and encouraged europes capitalist free market tendency so it could create markets for its own goods. As Europe recovered few nations rebuilt their military. Why bother? America was there with all the guns and they were willing to protect us.

Robert Kagan wrote an increadibly interesting article regarding all this. He stated that Europeans continually critisise American foreign policy in particular because of its aggressive nature and of its 'arrogance' and 'brashness' yet seem to forget that not so long ago europeans were also spreading their empires across the world in pursuit of domestic goals. Those with power use it. Those without complain about its use. Europe is also in a rather interesting position. It has been allowed to flourish with a 'safety' net around it during the Cold War. THere was little chance of Soviet invasion when US nuclear missiles were aimed as Moscow. America stood by at the gates of europe with a giant sword whilst the European countries within were free to pursue an economic agenda free from fear which now sees us with increasingly strong economies (as a whole) but without any kind of real military power.

Our safety allowed us to talk about things such as 'diplomacy' and 'fairness' when in reality not a huge amount of what goes on in the world is fair at all.
When has a country ever not used its power to ensure its own people continue to live and fulfill the expectations they have?

I cannot think of a single world power which has not exercised its power to its own advantage even if the rest of the world frowns upon it.

As such America is disliked. Europeans want more diplomacy and less 'trigger happy' responses. America obviously doesnt see the need for diplomacy. But why would it. It holds the biggest gun in the entire world and theres noone there to stop it using it.

The old 'balance of power' has gone leaving a unipolar world where one country has free reign with no real counterbalance to its huge power and aspirations. Noone to keep it in check and noone who can forcefully say 'No.'

America has continually vetoed sensible UN resolutions regarding Israel.
America has broken International law numerous times (Cuba is a perfect example with the 'detainees') and continues to act in a way that makes many nations uncomfortable.


This is the country. This is not its people. Any nation with the amoutn of power America wields will always be hated. It is capable of ensuring its wishes are carried out. Europe can not lay claim to such a concept. IT cannot 'force' its will on others. America can and does.

As such it breeds resentment.




Thats on the whole anyway. The other reason why many "americans" are disliked by the world is much to do with the American media. Fox News in particular has done America no favours on the world stage. Highly right wing commentators spouting 'we are the most powerful country in the world. do you really think we give a damn what you think' or the classic 'Canada should be happy we even allow them to share the same continent with us - ann coultuer'.

These kinds of comments inflame people. Instead of seeing them as the thoughts of one highly right wing loon they believe many more think the same. Everyone of any intelligence in America who i have ever spoken too takes these people with a pinch of salt. OF course americans are patriotic etc which usually comes across as 'nationalistic' and OTT (flag waving here we come) but im almost sure no harm is meant by this.

Anyway. Read the article by Robert Kagan (i got it wrong before).
IT can be found http://www.policyreview.org/JUN02/kagan.html
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 20:39   #66
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
btw most europeans hate americans just like how they hate eachother... I mean.. belgians hate dutchies.. dutchies hate germans.. everyone hates the french etc etc.. so you shouldnt worry about it to much
Sorry, missed your post earlier. So are you implying that Europeans in general are xenophobes?
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 20:43   #67
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

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Originally Posted by Texan
Sorry, missed your post earlier. So are you implying that Europeans in general are xenophobes?

Well if you hate everyone except yourself and those close to you (and even they aren't certain) I'm not sure that your a xenophobe.......perhaps a tad anti-social....


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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 20:53   #68
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

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Originally Posted by JammyJim
etc
I think Jammy Jim just summed it all up with that post. Bravo.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 21:02   #69
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarina_Joy
Have you not considered the possibility that *you* are not welcome in this community (by some of its members at least) and that your nationality is just a handy stick to poke you with?.
So what if some black person starts being obnoxious, is calling him ****** going to be a handy stick to poke him with? Maybe I should use people's sexual orientation to poke them with. (which I'd never do)
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 21:09   #70
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
So what if some black person starts being obnoxious, is calling him ****** going to be a handy stick to poke him with? Maybe I should use people's sexual orientation to poke them with. (which I'd never do)
This forum is basically a free for all. Poke with whatever stick you feel will piss'em off the most.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 21:16   #71
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
This forum is basically a free for all. Poke with whatever stick you feel will piss'em off the most.
Well I'd never say those things. I'm just making a point.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 21:37   #72
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

ROFLMAO @ QazokRouge5's attempt to get more negreps.
looool.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 22:27   #73
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
Sorry, missed your post earlier. So are you implying that Europeans in general are xenophobes?
Were not the once trying to get the world to act like us.. and declaring other countries as axes of evil.. trying to force peacefull treaties on everyone and preventing others to get weapons that might scare you.. war against communism and everything thats different.. or still racistic against black people.. we are not the once with plans to nuke mekka incase were being attacked by muslims


I was implying that its normal to point out eachothers differences and make fun of it.. without hating them..
You guys do it 2.. and it shouldnt be taken personal
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 22:41   #74
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by JammyJim
The old 'balance of power' has gone leaving a unipolar world where one country has free reign with no real counterbalance to its huge power and aspirations. Noone to keep it in check and noone who can forcefully say 'No.'
Personally I think a few countries can, but the price would be to high for everyone to actually do something about it...
Its not worth it..

If some other big country like China would invade some evil country to bring "wealth, peace and freedom" or as an retalliation against an attack then I doubt the US would stop them 2..
The price is 2 high..
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 22:55   #75
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

i could write some text here, but basicly it comes down to 'you people are all insane.' i used to think its just a very lound minority, but since bush with all what he stands for won the election i have some serious doubts about that.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 23:04   #76
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
So what if some black person starts being obnoxious, is calling him ****** going to be a handy stick to poke him with? Maybe I should use people's sexual orientation to poke them with. (which I'd never do)

Well yes, it is a handy stick.

There is no guarantee of course that he wont find his own stick to poke you with (or crack open your skull with and make cat food out of your brains) .



At least you (tacitly) admit that you have been/still are obnoxious.
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 23:53   #77
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessio
1. Were not the once trying to get the world to act like us.. and declaring other countries as axes of evil.. trying to force peacefull treaties on everyone and preventing others to get weapons that might scare you.. war against communism and everything thats different.. or still racistic against black people.. we are not the once with plans to nuke mekka incase were being attacked by muslims

2. I was implying that its normal to point out eachothers differences and make fun of it.. without hating them..
3. You guys do it 2.. and it shouldnt be taken personal
1. Since I don't know who you are, I don't know if you are trying to get the world to act like you are. I suspect your country, whatever it is, would like other countries to act in a certain way. Maybe your country would like that the United States not attack Syria. I just don't know.

2. I don't hate countries, only people. You said various people hate other people from different countries.

3. Do what? Make fun of the French?
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Unread 23 Jul 2005, 23:57   #78
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
1. Since I don't know who you are, I don't know if you are trying to get the world to act like you are. I suspect your country, whatever it is, would like other countries to act in a certain way. Maybe your country would like that the United States not attack Syria. I just don't know.
this point is completely insane.

"Hah! You're just as interventionist as us! You're intervening by asking us not to intervene!"
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 00:00   #79
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
this point is completely insane.

"Hah! You're just as interventionist as us! You're intervening by asking us not to intervene!"
Maybe you would like China to give Tibet its independence. Make you happy?
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 00:03   #80
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
Maybe you would like China to give Tibet its independence. Make you happy?
yes. but if i were to undertake a military campaign to achieve this i wouldnt work under the pretense that this is normal for modern statesmanship.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 00:05   #81
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

I have no dislike of Americans, nor do I know very many, but what I do dislike is the idiotic purile trash that spews forth from SOME of the US media (fox news as stated by an-other)

One question that I have to ask,

Has the US Government ever appologised for anything when it has so blatanly screwed up?
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 00:11   #82
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Exclamation Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

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Originally Posted by hyfe
I sat up all night and watched the last election on TV. The number one reason for voting for bush among the interviews among 'random americans' was 'morals and stuff'. I mean, there are lots of reason I could have understood, and would have had some kind of respect for, but 'morals'?! He tricked you into war, lied his ass off, and afterwards when his bluff was called, you all pretty much agreed it was for the better since Saddam was a bad guy.

This isn't about some dumb****s. This is about the majority of the US.
Um, no. The 2004 exit poll that you're citing was horribly flawed. Even putting aside the fact that 'moral values' has no meaningful definition, the total number of respondees who listed moral values as their most important issue was 22%. Not a majority of voters, not even a majority of Republican voters, let alone a majority of the US. It was only picked up by the press in that it was the highest single category selected, given how they arbitrarily diced up the various issues (for example, if they'd lumped taxes in with the economy/jobs category, then that would have been the highest category).

Actual poll results here.

A very brief analysis here.

All this really indicates is that flawed polls yield flawed results. You can hate Americans for re-electing Bush if you want to, but if you believe it was due to 'moral values' then you're just deluding yourself. But you're not alone--most of the American media made the same mistake.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 00:11   #83
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

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Originally Posted by Phang
yes. but if i were to undertake a military campaign to achieve this i wouldnt work under the pretense that this is normal for modern statesmanship.
Look man, in what reality do you live? Modern statesmanship? Are you trying to suggest that wars ended around the middle of the 20th century when no one was looking, and that the best way to achieve a countries' goals was to say pretty please with sugar on top? I can't know what you are thinking unless you just come right out and say it.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 00:24   #84
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

On the general topic, I would suggest that the rest of the world is very different from America. In America, everything is black and white, there is no grey.

Take for example America's foreign policy. For much of the 20th century, America was isolationist. This meant that America has caught (in my eyes, rightfully) a lot of flak over its late entry into both World Wars and the failure of the League of Nations. There has now been a transition, prompted by the Cold War, to an extremely interventionist policy. For example, Iraq, Vietnam, Cuba, most of Central America, and so on. Many people disagree with this as well, again for what may or may not be the right reasons.

I suppose that Americans feel damned if they do, damned if they don't. But this isn't the case. Instead, America needs to position itself in the grey, and doing this would help it out a huge amount in global politics.

For example, what if America (and Britain) had invaded Iraq after repeated UN resolutions and mandates - and actually caring about them in the first place? Domestic opinion would never be in the dire straits it is now. Everyone except the peaceniks knows that sometimes, force has to be used. But using it pre-emptively without a clear, accepted cause is a bad thing, and does not help America.

Meanwhile, America is a symbol - the symbol of globalisation (McDonalds, Starbucks, Coca-Cola, etc) and of capitalism. I like both of these. But for the owners of a little coffee shop forced to close by a Starbucks opening next door, life kinda sucks. Since Starbucks is American, it's very easy to blame America for this. This may not be right, but it happens. It's yet another part of drip-drip American hostility.


Another example - your religious fundies vs liberals. Abortion. Gay marriage. Flag burning. It's all treated as black and white in America - in Europe it's different shades of grey.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 00:36   #85
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

The real problem is lack of knowledge. Some of you never been to USA, and some of you never been to Europe. Europe and USA are different cultures. For others, the reason why Americans are "arrogant" is because your own people come here and say how much it sucks there, and they love America. And guess what, Americans think Euros are "arrogant" because we go there and complain about America. SOrt of a vice versa. If truth be told, generally, Americans and Europeans do not think each other are arrogant. Look at the communities that each side has speaking for each other. A group of computer nubs who probably never travel outside of thier own city area. And when they do travel, they don't do anything to explore that places culture. Going to see sites, and taking pictures is not learning a culture. To learn America, you need to actually get your ass whipped and have a midget frisk your pockets, to be able to pass any judgement.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 01:13   #86
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
Look man, in what reality do you live? Modern statesmanship? Are you trying to suggest that wars ended around the middle of the 20th century when no one was looking, and that the best way to achieve a countries' goals was to say pretty please with sugar on top? I can't know what you are thinking unless you just come right out and say it.
see you after the nuclear winter.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 01:35   #87
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chika
The real problem is lack of knowledge. Some of you never been to USA, and some of you never been to Europe. Europe and USA are different cultures. For others, the reason why Americans are "arrogant" is because your own people come here and say how much it sucks there, and they love America. And guess what, Americans think Euros are "arrogant" because we go there and complain about America. SOrt of a vice versa. If truth be told, generally, Americans and Europeans do not think each other are arrogant. Look at the communities that each side has speaking for each other. A group of computer nubs who probably never travel outside of thier own city area. And when they do travel, they don't do anything to explore that places culture. Going to see sites, and taking pictures is not learning a culture. To learn America, you need to actually get your ass whipped and have a midget frisk your pockets, to be able to pass any judgement.

Europe is somewhat different from America. Its a far more 'cultured' society and outdoor walking love life dont stress so much culture.
(just look at the italians..)

As for Britain i disagree. Britain and America are more alike than most would like to admit. We enjoy precisely the same freedoms. We are protected by laws. Our government is elected. Our work ethic is somewhat the same. We too enjoy capitalism.

Maybe europe is different (not by much) but Britain is not and most of the 'flak' from people on thise forum seems to stem from British folk....
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 01:48   #88
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by s|k
I too get neg repped with anti-american comments:

"go away you dumb yank, go invade korea or something and get shot in the head"

I really don't think that the rep comments should be beyond forum rules, and I think JJ needs to regulate them or I guess maybe Americans are just less welcome in this UK dominated community. Maybe it's just time for us to leave.
and britain (yes you do keep saying england or europe), britain is your closest ally.

ever wonder if you're just being over sensitive?
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 03:12   #89
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

I live in Stockton, California.
Stockton is a city of 280,000 people.
Of that 100,000 or so are of Mexican decent and culture.
Another 40,000 are of Indochinese ancestry and culture.
Among these are Vietnamese, Cambodian, Laotian, Hmong individuals.
Another 20,000 are Chinese and Japanese by ancestry
Another 20,000 are of black African ancestry.
Another 10,000 are of middle eastern ancestry
That leaves 90,000-100,000 who are of European ancestry.
Of these there are a lot of Italians, Potruguese, British, Scotts, Irish, Polish, Russian, Norwegians, Swedes, French, German, etc., etc., etc.

I haven't had to travel outside of the US to find cultural diversity. Cultural diversity has come to me in my own home town.

We have Christian churches, Muslim temples, Jewish synagogs, Sikh temples, Budhist temples, you-name-it we got it.

We have festivals which honor just about every one of those various cultural backgrounds.

Yet, we are all Americans. Not all of us are pleased with all of the rest of us. There is much arrogance and condecension within our communities. This is a natural by-product of cultures and nationalities rubbing up against each other. But, we work it out.

America as a country is arrogant. It comes from human nature and from success.

The condecension with which many Europeans treat Americans stems from European success and arrogance.

When Americans talk about Europeans they are usually talking about English, Irish, French and Germans. This is inaccurate. But no less accurate than talking about Americans as if we were a homogeneous people.

As for wars and our imperalism. All great powers are imperialist and war is a by-product.

As unpleasant as it is to listen to some of the anti-American sentiments on GD, to findo out more about what other people were thinking outside of America, was the reason I joined.

The general view in most of western Europe that the US is a bunch of country bumpkins is a thread which has run through out the history of the United States. It isn't new. It is just as correct and just as incorrect now as it ever was.

As to our social welfare system. People keep moving here. Many of them because they don't have a social welfare system in their countries of origin. We have a different idea on what is and isn't appropriate. We think we are right. You think you are right. You don't want ours and we don't want yours. How do you determine who is correct? History may or may not tell.

I am pro-American.

Though I don't agree with everything the American government does, I also support it.

I voted for Bush and Chaney TWICE. I like him.

I would like to see Rice run for president so I could vote for HER.

I also like Blair and Howard.

I would prefer that other countries were more pro-American. Other countries wish that America was more pro-whatever they happen to be. Big surprise.

Thank you for sharing with me. I will continue to share with you. (like it or not)
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 04:05   #90
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
I haven't had to travel outside of the US to find cultural diversity.
darling one always has to travel.
A mc'italian just isn't the same

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
America as a country is arrogant. It comes from human nature and from success.
yes it does

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
The condecension with which many Europeans treat Americans stems from European success and arrogance.
no it stems from america not handling it's success very well.
(we aren't successful right now)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
When Americans talk about Europeans they are usually talking about English, Irish, French and Germans. This is inaccurate.
it's not only inaccurate.
it's bizzare.
why the irish exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
But no less accurate than talking about Americans as if we were a homogeneous people.
you are a country. or at least. that's what you keep telling us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
As for wars and our imperalism. All great powers are imperialist and war is a by-product.
yes of course.

and terrorism against an imperial power is equally as natural.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
As unpleasant as it is to listen to some of the anti-American sentiments on GD, to findo out more about what other people were thinking outside of America, was the reason I joined.
good.

i wouldn't lose you for the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
The general view in most of western Europe that the US is a bunch of country bumpkins is a thread which has run through out the history of the United States. It isn't new. It is just as correct and just as incorrect now as it ever was.
goodness no.
the general view in britain is that we have stuck by you (and you have stuck by us) through good times and through bad. britain is annoyed that america no longer seems to know this.
ireland just gets drunk
france hates everyone who doesn't speak french
and germany is still applying for re-admittance to the human race

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
As to our social welfare system.
you don't have one dear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Though I don't agree with everything the American government does, I also support it.
i support the facist party in france.
i don't agree with what it does
i support it's right to exist
stop seeing criticism as unpatriotic.

that line

stop seeing criticism as unpatriotic

that's the only thing that americans have forgotten

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
I voted for Bush and Chaney TWICE. I like him.
yes you did.
you'll regret it in time i hope

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
I would like to see Rice run for president so I could vote for HER.
nonsense
colin powel yes. her. no.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
I also like Blair and Howard.
god knows why
no one in england does

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
I would prefer that other countries were more pro-American. Other countries wish that America was more pro-whatever they happen to be. Big surprise.
you're the empire. it's your call
just
please
understand
the last thing anyone is ever going to do is say "god how unlucky you are that you're the dominant empire"
america keeps looking for sympathy when from the point of view of the rest of the world you have it better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Thank you for sharing with me. I will continue to share with you. (like it or not)
i'll drink to that.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 08:15   #91
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
Has the US Government ever appologised for anything when it has so blatanly screwed up?
The American government has apologized for slavery albeit somewhat tardily.
The American government has apologized for interning Americans of Japanese ancestry from the west coast during WWII, again after quite a few years.
The American government has apologized for many screwups of a smaller nature.
Have we ever apologized for a war? No and I wouldn't hold my breath either.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 08:56   #92
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Really I don't think the world hates America or Americans.

The world generally loves America. We love its Ideals, we love what it has stood for through its history & we love the hope that America represents. It is unarguably much better then any other option that has reared its head in the last 200 years.

After 9-11 America had such wide spread public support that it was amazing. America had an opportunity at that point in time to unite the world behind them and to really make a positive change in world politics.

If America had invaded Afghanistan & poured resources into it, they could easily have the Middle Eastern democracy they claim to believe is so important.
The people of Afghanistan welcomed the Americans & the entire world supported it.
America could of made a huge difference on the war on terrorism there. Afghanistan could of become a great example of what American influence & help could accomplish.

Instead of that happening, America pissed away the public support it had.
George Bush saw 9-11 as an opportunity to invade Iraq & insisted on pushing forward with an unjustified war.
The world knew that war was unjustified.
The world knew that Iraq wasn't a threat to America.
Saddam wasn't a friend to the terrorists, they hated him as much as they hated America. Iraq was the only country in the Middle East where the extremists had no power, because Saddam hated them & kept them solidly under his thumb.
Bush had made up his mind to invade Iraq long before he went to the United Nations about it.
Bush didn't have faulty intelligence; he was simply selective on the intelligence he chose to use.
Of course Saddam was a horrible dictator, but there’s no shortage of those around. There was no real reason to single out this one.
The world knew these things; some of the American press reported these things.
Yet the American public ignored the truth & believed the propaganda spewed out by the right wing.

We don't hate America, we hate that America has lost its way.

We see America being hi-jacked by ultra right wing conservatives.
We see America buying into the nationalistic propaganda being spewed out by organizations like Fox news.
We see the American leaders lying to the people.

We see America being so much less then what it could be.

I've read that America saw Bush as the lesser of two evils, but for most of the world it is totally incomprehensible how the Americans could of possibly re-elected George Bush.

We hate Americans for believing the lies told to them.
We think the American public has got to be incredibly stupid for believing those lies.
We hate Americans for continuing to elect leaders who care for nothing but there own personal agendas.

We really don't hate America; we really do hate what you've allowed your country to become.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 11:39   #93
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by dda
Of these there are a lot of Italians, Potruguese, British, Scotts, Irish, Polish, Russian, Norwegians, Swedes, French, German, etc., etc., etc.
I don't wish to sound picky here but the British include the Scottish and the Irish (well, the Northern ones). I'd imagine you have used the term British to refer to the English, which you may as well have typed. there is only one British country you did not (indirectly) name and that was the Welsh. Now, I understand that a lot of people see Britain and England as interchangable terms but this not the case.

this is more of a general call to everyone who uses English and British as eaning the same thing, they don't.

Please use the names where they are needed, not where you want to use them.

thanks in advance.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 11:56   #94
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I don't wish to sound picky here but the British include the Scottish and the Irish (well, the Northern ones). I'd imagine you have used the term British to refer to the English, which you may as well have typed. there is only one British country you did not (indirectly) name and that was the Welsh. Now, I understand that a lot of people see Britain and England as interchangable terms but this not the case.

this is more of a general call to everyone who uses English and British as eaning the same thing, they don't.

Please use the names where they are needed, not where you want to use them.

thanks in advance.
Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, not Great Britain (United Kingdom being Britain and Northern Ireland, don't ask me why).

Wales is technically not a country but a principality. Don't think this has any real difference though and it is generally considered to be a country in its own right.

I MIGHT BE WRONG THOUGH!!! Please correct me if I am :-)
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 12:21   #95
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAL-9000
Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, not Great Britain (United Kingdom being Britain and Northern Ireland, don't ask me why).
Probably due to the Act of Union of 1801 and it's subsequent dissolution in 1922, leaving only the 6(?) counties of Ulster in the UK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAL-9000
Wales is technically not a country but a principality. Don't think this has any real difference though and it is generally considered to be a country in its own right.
Wales is technically a principality but that is not really the issue. It is (should be) treated as a country in it's own right, it has it's own history, language etc etc....

If you are going to talk about the Irish, Scottish and English it is only polite to mention the Welsh,

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAL-9000
I MIGHT BE WRONG THOUGH!!! Please correct me if I am :-)
I think you are 100% correct.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 12:33   #96
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
If you are going to talk about the Irish, Scottish and English it is only polite to mention the Welsh,
In the United States we have a lot of people with Irish, Scottish and English ancestors, but I rarely hear about people with Welsh ancestors. Which is rather odd because my mother's mother's father had an ancestor who came to the United States from Wales. Though everyone (in the family) said my great grandfather's family came from England.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 14:17   #97
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by HAL-9000
Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, not Great Britain (United Kingdom being Britain and Northern Ireland, don't ask me why).
Well, whilst the UK is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, Ireland is still part of the British Isles.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 19:40   #98
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
yes.

korea. vietnam. panama. el salvador. afghanistan. honduras. iran-iraq. the gulf war. afghanistan again. the gulf war again. grenada. the bay of pigs. nicaragua. mozambique. angola. the phillipines. guetamala.

there have been quite a few of these war thingies.
I'd like to point out that these were not wars. Congress has not declared war since WWII.

They were not wars, they were police actions.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 19:55   #99
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by QazokRouge5
I'd like to point out that these were not wars. Congress has not declared war since WWII.

They were not wars, they were police actions.
If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, sounds like a duck, tastes like a duck then it's a duck.
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Unread 24 Jul 2005, 20:49   #100
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Re: General Hostility Towards Americans

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Systems Go
If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, sounds like a duck, tastes like a duck then it's a duck.
It could be said that there are many species of duck.
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