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20 Jun 2010, 12:46
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#1
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Usually about two or three times every round something so asinine you'd think it was a deliberate joke happens involving the multihunters. Most of the time you roll your eyes, chuckle under your breath at the absurdity of it and sigh quietly that in 2010 PA some people are still that hard up that they need their internet power trips. All in all it's usually so sad that you need to laugh or you'd have to cry. As such I encourage you all to share in our collective mirth in #ascendancy!
<Hosie> Your account has now been closed due to violation of the user agreement, supported by evidence collected from the game.
<Hosie> Planets are not generally reopened unless good justifications can be given for the evidence collected by "Multihunters".
<jesterina> heh
<Kargool> is Hosie closed?
<mz> what'd you do hosie!?
<ATRO> what were your fleetnames?
<Hosie> I told butter to go **** herself
<Hosie> the fleet name wasnt that bad
<Hosie> SOCCER IS A POOFS GAME
(Apparently a comment my grandmother wouldn't find offensive is now enough to get you warned.)
So what happened and how did hosie manage to get himself closed I hear you ask!
http://pastebin.com/6jBC1Q0n
Truly this man deserves everything he gets. First he makes a joke and then he doesn't want to spend his evening being told off by a patronising bitch in a thousand man game on the internet for breaking a totally irrelevant rule. Hitler could hardly have even thought such depths of depravity existed.
It is not all bad news though! Earlier that night hosie had accidentally slipped, fallen, banged his head, become temporarily retarded and ended up defending isildurx. Thankfully this horrifying aberration was corrected by the multihunters for when they closed hosie they recalled all his fleets to base. As such I invite you all to celebrate the fact with me that hosie's dislike of soccer has somehow managed to get isil roided.
Things that get isil roided. +1
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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20 Jun 2010, 12:48
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#2
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
i'm pro isil getting roided
.cookie hosie gettin isil roided
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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20 Jun 2010, 12:55
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#3
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Drink is Good
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,122
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
pro isil getting owned
__________________
Can we please have a moment of silence...........
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20 Jun 2010, 13:26
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#4
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Save energy: Be apathetic
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 228
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
The MH team needs a serious revamp, it's full of people that are narrow-minded and ignorant to such a degree that they'd make the Holy Inquisition blush.
Also, interesting how a post gets deleted if you bring up the subject of planets being closed for mocking MHs. Seems it's a taboo to speak against the almighty "people".
__________________
Ascendancy - Land'n'Crash Inc.
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20 Jun 2010, 13:28
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#5
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break it down!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,087
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
yeah i think hosie got a lot of cookies for getting isil roided at least!
btw he was reopened but his fleets had been recalled, including both def on a 1k roid planet and an attack that was getting him 100 roids. Bad times
__________________
I put the sex in dyslexia!
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20 Jun 2010, 13:30
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#6
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Arrogant Fck
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Woah. This makes me want to change my fleetnames to "SOCCER IS A POOFS GAME". Just to piss off Butter. Some people just shouldn't have any power what so ever.
It's not as much fun when you can't see Isil whine about getting roided though
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
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20 Jun 2010, 13:33
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#7
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break it down!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,087
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun_Tzu
Woah. This makes me want to change my fleetnames to "SOCCER IS A POOFS GAME". Just to piss off Butter. Some people just shouldn't have any power what so ever.
It's not as much fun when you can't see Isil whine about getting roided though
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The only way it could have been better is if he were also defending Alki and jer at the same time.
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I put the sex in dyslexia!
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20 Jun 2010, 13:36
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#8
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Up The Hatters!
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Kenilworth Road
Posts: 3,012
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Now as I've read the log for Hosies terrible crime, I really have to shake my head at the way the multihunter reacted to that. We're not kids here. MH's decide upon a punishment, and dish it out. You should not have to stand trial when the sentance have allready been dished out.
__________________
Planetarion veteran
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20 Jun 2010, 13:37
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#9
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Miles Teg
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Dom City
Posts: 5,192
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Somehow my earlier reply got deleted, lets put it in general terms then:
I think this shows the incomtence of certain MH's and that many of them are prone to powertrips. I think this is bad for the game and one of the reasons the community as a whole does not really trust any of the support, creators or PA team to do 'any good'. Therefore I must agree with ricoshay's point earlier in this thread that the MH's should be revamped, a lot.
Just to add to the lolz:
<Hosie> how about the 100 roids you guys just cost me
<Judge> hard luck
<Hosie> I was closed for basically nothing
<Judge> that is you punishement for your attitude
__________________
Audentes Fortuna Iuvat
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20 Jun 2010, 13:43
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: England
Posts: 99
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Just what we need for an already dying game.
If you don't want to be an MH drop out, don't ruin the game till everyone leaves so you don't have anyone left to monitor. Wouldn't mind one round with MH not alienating themselves further from the community they are supposedly there to benefit.
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20 Jun 2010, 14:07
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#11
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
I can't say I have much of a problem with blatant homophobia being illegal. I know that there's an attitude in the community to think up fleet, ruler and planet names that are as close to illegal as possible (especially among members of Ascendancy), and one of the consequences of doing that is getting slapped if you overstep your bounds. If you can't handle that, then perhaps you should find a different hobby.
Similarly, insulting members of the staff is really not necessary. You broke a rule, so suck it up and take the punishment. Don't try to save your e-cool by acting like a dick. Interestingly enough, there's nothing in the EULA about insulting staff. Hosie is right though, in that butter seems to consider herself quite exalted. Being bad at communicating appears to be a requirement in order to join the staff, these days.
Overall, it seems to me that these are two people who both acted like shit. Welcome to the internet.
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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20 Jun 2010, 14:14
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#12
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
Somehow my earlier reply got deleted, lets put it in general terms then:
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It's also fantastic that this happens without anyone even bothering to post going "hi, although I'm not a moderator of this forum I decided to delete posts x, y and z for these reasons". There really needs to be some sort of basic customer service competency test in place for people who want to actually work for PA.
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
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20 Jun 2010, 14:20
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Is this really what it has come down to in terms of preventing me showing my obvious superiority in this game?
As for whining, that is so 2007.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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20 Jun 2010, 14:28
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#14
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Look its a useless rank.
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Aus > NZ
Posts: 76
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
The warning for my fleet names was deserved and not at all unexpected.
The 20 minute closure that was only done to teach me to 'respect' these wannabe internet despots is the shitty part. All its done is get a paying customer who wasn't involved roided. Thank **** that person is isil.
oh and I still think soccer is a game for feminine men.
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20 Jun 2010, 14:36
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Noruega
Posts: 2,999
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
As a loyal paying customer I am absolutely devastated by the travesty that has his about to happen to my planet.
__________________
"Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of War"
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20 Jun 2010, 14:45
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#16
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BlueTuba
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 6,339
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
What's happened here is pretty much a mistake by the MH when a lesser punishment would have been appropriate. And by the time they realise a mistake has been made - they go to compound that error by refusing to fix it.
While I can't exactly condone Hosie's behaviour to butter, it's not as if I've not had to put up with (and ignore) abuse in a position of responsibility. It's an internet game - piss people off, you're going to get streams of abuse through that irc client. When you've screwed up by giving out a disproportionate punishment, the least you can do is rectify it.
In the end it's up to MHs to rise above this and do their job as professionally as they can.
__________________
"Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
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20 Jun 2010, 15:22
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#17
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
as a loyal paying customer im disgusted at the travesty that didnt happen at isilx's planet
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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20 Jun 2010, 15:24
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#18
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Arrogant Fck
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
It just seems to me that the common sense solution would be to either reset the names without closing him (I've had some fleetnames reset myself, although I don't remember if this is ever done without closure), or at least waiting to close him until his fleets were returning.
Then again, common sense doesn't seem to be a requisite trait for MH's.
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
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20 Jun 2010, 15:24
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#19
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Reject False Icons
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Your Hotel.... Fee:$999
Posts: 896
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
If you have to ask twice shes doing it wrong.....SHLAAAP
__________________
The Illuminati- NoS
[]LCH[]- dc
-=Destiny=-
Wolfpack - Dc
xVx - DC
Apprime -_-
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20 Jun 2010, 22:17
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 957
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hosie
oh and I still think soccer is a game for feminine men.
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We don't all shower with eachother afterwards for nothing!
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21 Jun 2010, 00:07
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#21
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CRASHING BEATS 'N FANTASY
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cold Country.
Posts: 1,912
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
What's this thing people call soccer?
__________________
Iā! Iā! Munin F'tagn! - [*scendancy]
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21 Jun 2010, 00:31
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#22
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Arrogant Fck
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartless
What's this thing people call soccer?
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I think it has something to do with balls touching.
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
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21 Jun 2010, 01:47
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#23
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The Original Carebear
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 1,048
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
I think it was the right thing to do for 2 reasons:
1) I did find the fleet name offensive. It's not called soccer you kangaroochucking idiot!
2) It increased the chances of Isil getting roided. Too bad it didn't happen.
__________________
If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.
Oh crap, I might be back. I should take my own advice.
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21 Jun 2010, 03:59
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#24
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Arrogant Fck
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 1,031
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by qebab
2) it increased the chances of isil getting roided. Too bad it didn't happen.
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what?! I have been lied to! You ****ers!
__________________
[OLMIT] / [TreKronor]
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21 Jun 2010, 16:40
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#25
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Jazz Man
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,494
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Even I wasn't this bad.
Jeez...
....also in my day IRC logs couldn't be used as evidence against an individual to justify a closing, things have changed it seems...or have they?
__________________
Marv
Ex ROCK HC & PA Team Head of Support.
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22 Jun 2010, 09:57
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 296
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Now I really wonder how the MH will treat the cheating galaxy we can all lookup on sandmans right now.
rather sure theyīll just get a slap on the wrists and then be reopened instead of going straight to the deletion row.
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22 Jun 2010, 10:10
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#27
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Is that gal the reason the games shut down ? Also name and shame them please
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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22 Jun 2010, 10:17
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#28
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Angels for life !
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,269
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Let the drama begin :-)
__________________
Former Angels CEO/HC - retired! as of round 16.
FAnG Founder | CEO/HC | Ex Gaming Community Senate
Furious Angels Gaming community
FA Gaming community
No need for a disclaimer ...
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22 Jun 2010, 10:17
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Tallinn
Posts: 734
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
well at least it cant be abused anymore after today.. hopefully
__________________
VISION FTW
THIS IS ULTORES
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22 Jun 2010, 10:25
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#30
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The brother of Spammer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Paisley - Scotland
Posts: 2,352
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
I want closures especially if it causes a rollback
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22 Jun 2010, 10:35
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#31
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Save energy: Be apathetic
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 228
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by rUl3r
Now I really wonder how the MH will treat the cheating galaxy we can all lookup on sandmans right now.
rather sure theyīll just get a slap on the wrists and then be reopened instead of going straight to the deletion row.
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I don't notice anything out of the ordinary in the galaxy screen on sandmans. Details anyone?
__________________
Ascendancy - Land'n'Crash Inc.
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22 Jun 2010, 10:35
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 296
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
People from that gal are atm trying to justify their actions on IRC by saying they reported it. The massive donations were just testing the limits, according to them.
However, I seriously wonder why they need to use the resources to produce ships if they just wanted to test limits.
Itīs a silly attempt to justify blatant cheating.
Oh right, Iīm talking about 10:6, though Iīd bet most people who are interested in this already know by now.
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22 Jun 2010, 10:46
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#33
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mz.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 8,587
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
From what I can tell, 10:6 used a bug that allowed them to donate to 5 of their planets simultaneously. They first did it with 1m metal and when that turned out to work, they did it with another 49m. They then proceeded to put them into production, which can be seen from the fact that their value growth continued at double the rate it did before the donation.
As for name and shame: pdmaster of Osiris, Rydel of Evolution, xoca of Apprime, Joseph of Osiris and Darkkon of Evolution received a donation, in order of Z coordinate. spectro of Apprime, Korsan of Osiris, Mysteries of NewDawn couldn't (and didn't) receive a donation because they were above their galaxy's average score, though it's possible they would've refused to participate either way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paisley
I want closures especially if it causes a rollback
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lol
__________________
The outraged poets threw sticks and rocks over the side of the bridge. They were all missing Mary and he felt a contented smug feeling wash over him. He would have given them a coy little wave if the roof hadn't collapsed just then. Mary then found himself in the middle of an understandably shocked family's kitchen table. So he gave them the coy little wave and realized it probably would have been more effective if he hadn't been lying on their turkey.
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22 Jun 2010, 10:49
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#34
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Save energy: Be apathetic
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 228
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Oh, 10:6... they were also hit today. Funny time to start testing!
Going back on topic, I wonder what the punishment will be. Afterall, they didn't rename their fleets to something containing poofs. :/
__________________
Ascendancy - Land'n'Crash Inc.
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22 Jun 2010, 11:06
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#35
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Good Son
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,991
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knight Theamion
<Judge> that is you punishement for your attitude
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I found this one top notch. Not that I've ever respected these people too much. Maybe Xontas was decent.
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22 Jun 2010, 11:07
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#36
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Jazz Maverick
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 333
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
So can we confirm (as I'm not playing) we have:
1. juvenile homophobic nonsense
2. incompetent / ego maniacal officials
3. organized cheating
4. loads of people exhibiting various levels of mock surprise / resentment at the above?
just checking to see whether things have changed much.
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22 Jun 2010, 11:14
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 296
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by HRH_H_Crab
So can we confirm (as I'm not playing) we have:
1. juvenile homophobic nonsense
2. incompetent / ego maniacal officials
3. organized cheating
4. loads of people exhibiting various levels of mock surprise / resentment at the above?
just checking to see whether things have changed much.
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No changes really, you can come back to PA anytime and find the same enjoyable environment as ever
Edit: After some longer, calm talk to a member of 10:6 Iīm willing to consider the option they actually did not intend to cheat. While I fully believe in the stupidity of mankind, they do have fair points.
Since I donīt want to cook this up any further, Iīll personally wait for an official statement by PA team on the whole matter.
Last edited by rUl3r; 22 Jun 2010 at 11:35.
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22 Jun 2010, 11:50
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,663
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
I see, it doesn't come from Asc so it's cheating...
__________________
<smith> You're 15 and full of shit.
<Furious_George> no, im 22
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22 Jun 2010, 11:56
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 296
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
I see, it doesn't come from Asc so it's cheating...
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Your hatred against Asc is really misplaced here. I donīt think any Asc approves of bug abuse, and there were lots of non-Asc people in #planetarion today who werenīt fond of it either.
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22 Jun 2010, 12:05
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#40
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Pipo P
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Brugge, Belgium
Posts: 46
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Just disable Fleet Names.
It's of no use what so ever and it's only used to insult / joke / try to confuse people.
Problem solved
__________________
Just a boy
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22 Jun 2010, 12:11
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#41
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
How's your patience rUl3r as pa team are not great for bothering to make official statements
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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22 Jun 2010, 12:26
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#42
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The Video Guy
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,279
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Epic thread win.
__________________
Writing lists and taking names.
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22 Jun 2010, 12:31
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#43
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Jazz Maverick
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 333
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
I see, it doesn't come from Asc so it's cheating...
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I believe that the Official Planetarion Community (c) (tm) line on this is:
"It is only cheating if you get caught."
Now, you can say what you like about Ascendancy (and most people do) but they very rarely (if ever?) get caught!
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22 Jun 2010, 12:32
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#44
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Save energy: Be apathetic
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 228
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by rUl3r
Your hatred against Asc is really misplaced here. I donīt think any Asc approves of bug abuse, and there were lots of non-Asc people in #planetarion today who werenīt fond of it either.
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If I was like him, I would hate Asc also.
__________________
Ascendancy - Land'n'Crash Inc.
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22 Jun 2010, 12:39
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#45
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Doh!
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Nemo Mortalium Omnibus Horis Sapit
Posts: 1,720
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Unofficial Statement
Today the sun is shining.
Last edited by Judge; 22 Jun 2010 at 13:00.
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22 Jun 2010, 12:43
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#46
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The liquid crusader
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: North East England
Posts: 109
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
Official Statement
Today the sun is shining.
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Yes, but out of who's bottom ?
__________________
No officer, there's no blood in my alcohol system
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22 Jun 2010, 12:50
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#47
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Angels for life !
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,269
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
Official Statement
Today the sun is shining.
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The sun is always shining, as it has been for the past billion years. Anything useful to share?
__________________
Former Angels CEO/HC - retired! as of round 16.
FAnG Founder | CEO/HC | Ex Gaming Community Senate
Furious Angels Gaming community
FA Gaming community
No need for a disclaimer ...
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22 Jun 2010, 12:52
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#48
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Fightin-irish for life
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: guinness brewery
Posts: 2,177
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
Official Statement
Today the sun is shining.
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Doesnt count unless it comes from the organ grinder and not the monkey
__________________
Ascendancy, now with added Irish
"In the absence of orders, find something and kill it."
-Rommel
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22 Jun 2010, 13:45
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#49
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Canadian to the Core
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,004
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Someone really needs to pull the MH's heads out of each others asses if they feel that Hosie's fleet name was somehow deserving of punishment when 99% of APP's fleet names don't face any consequences.
Totally laughable.
__________________
[DTA] Forever
r2-5 [LOST] - r6 [Instinct] - r7-8 [Titans] -r9 [Olympians] -DC
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<Intermission>
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22 Jun 2010, 13:48
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#50
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Banned
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Further to the right
Posts: 19,441
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Re: PA Multihunters - Bringing back the lols
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makhil
I see, it doesn't come from Asc so it's cheating...
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Actually it's if it contravenes the EULA so it's cheating. But you know, do continue to spew whatever rubbish enters your tiny mind onto the forums. Everyone appreciates a good clown!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rul3r
After some longer, calm talk to a member of 10:6 Iīm willing to consider the option they actually did not intend to cheat.
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Personally I doubt they did either. You'd need to be seriously retarded to think you could get away with this, which is, after all, the main point of cheating. That said they wasted everyone's time and caused downtime so I'd take away half of their fleets or some equally fitting punishment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi_K
Someone really needs to pull the MH's heads out of each others asses if they feel that Hosie's fleet name was somehow deserving of punishment when 99% of APP's fleet names don't face any consequences.
Totally laughable.
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It's mainly because hosie prelaunched a fleet on 1.1 and forgot to recall it.
Edit: It's also rather delightfully ironic that while hosie was expected to present himself for a completely pointless telling off the sum total of communication from pateam since the game went down 4 hours ago is that there's a problem and the game will be open when it's fixed (which is actually no information at all).
*JBG salutes PA's Monthy Pythonesque parody of customer service
__________________
Some might ask what good is life without purpose but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
Last edited by JonnyBGood; 22 Jun 2010 at 13:55.
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