Quote:
|
Originally Posted by furball
Actually we were considered a fairly strong European country, having the mettle to force the rebate. It was the in-fighting in Major's government that destroyed our European reputation.
|
Unfortunately Im going to disagree.
We were considered strong only because of our population, economy and past military power. Thats fair enough. But we were a pain in the arse in Europe. Thatcher destroyed any credibility we had.
She came into office with a skeptical mind and left office disgraced. When she came into office Britain was potentially florishing in Europe. Post World War II churchill dictated that Britain had three spheres of influence it was involved in. The Empire, USA and Europe. Britain rejected Europe and instead went for the pro empire and USA approach. With the failures of the empire and the fact that Britain was a country in decline politically (influence, military etc)..Suez would be a prime example of this where the USA told us to step down. We then turned our eyes to Europe. After the turbulent application process by MacMillan etc and the cnut that is DeGaulle rejecting it we finally made into Europe.
Europe wanted us. Europe was succeeding without us yet they wanted us. This showed our potential power in Europe. When we were at a point in time where we could have turned this to our advantage instead we elected Thatcher. She came in and instead of building bridges with Europe she burnt them down again by strengthening her relations with the USA (much like Bush and Blair) and angering Europe.
Strasbourg in 1979 the EC agrees to examne Britains rebate, then in Dublin they make an offer of £350 million. Thatcher wanted 1 billion. Come the 1980 May mandate Thatcher tries to hold the whole thing up and derail it. Thankgod she was outvoted but she gained a bad reputation amongst her European peers. Once again in 1983 at the solemn declaration Thatcher tried to hold it up, once again this produced immense ill will (seeing the pattern?)
At Brussels in 1984 she yet again threw another wobbly daring something that no other European country had done which was to hold back our contribution. This didnt help her gain respect from Europe once again it just angered them. The funny thing is that in the end at Fontainbleau she finally won this oh so great rebate. Well in the end she gained 1 billion ECU which was a 1/3 less of the original amount. In the end there was no permenant rebate formula sorted out.
However I think one of the worst things she did in Europe was the Bruges speech of 1988. If theres a way to anger Europeans its too look down on them. She called Jacques Delors a Socialst who was undermining the treaty of rome (jacques delors imo is one of the best europeans in the EU for his thinking towards Europe and how it should work) She said that Socialist ideas were creeping in through the back door of Brussels and she Repudiated much of the SEA such as border checks, customs etc. Basically she made Britain seem so far away from being European and being part of it as possible.
It wasnt just the Europeans who were angered by Thatchers approach to Europe it was also Nigel Lawson and Geoffery Howe who both resigned. It also lead to her downfall in the conservative party.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by furball
You either take back the Falklands, or you don't. She did the right thing and chose to protect the self-determination of the Falkland Islanders. Go her. The timing may have been fortituitous but you can't exactly argue that she arranged the war because of her flagging poll ratings.
|
What was so great about the falklands? As you say it was as simple as either taking it back or not. She took it back. Congratulations for her. She didnt do anything amazing, not as if we werent going to overthrow the masses of the argentinans on the island. It was a walk in a park. We outnumbered and outgunned them. What it did do was make people get all Nationalistic and put that feel good factor back in. In my opinion this factor of a successful war (which is always rather rare even in modern times) clouds the fact that she was destroying this country. If Iraq was a success and a walkover and iraqis were happy im sure many would be happy with blair. Ten years down the line people may see what a cock up (if he has) he has done of this country.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by furball
And you're out of examples. Not that I don't expect that there are many more. As you'll see above, I've changed my mind over the suitability of a state funeral due to the precedent it would set.
|
I could write a dissertation on the failures of Thatcher.