[Zh|l]

Originally Posted by Recluse

1) Im glad I wasn't the only one to see the 4 nights running hitting Pengu heavy gals. Something, I might add, I was advised was due to them being good targets, but not heavy in bigger alliances (i.e. the only ally we'd piss off was Pengu, who obviously was thought to be more beneficial then pissing off a bigger alliance)

Naturally with the deals we had, p3nguin was one of the alliances we didn't have a deal with and thus their members would naturally crop up in galaxy raids.

Not one time did p3nguins approach myself during these 4 nights to discuss anything and so it was believed they saw no aggression and just that they were galaxy raids.

To give you an idea Recluse, I generally don't work on the assumption that every galaxy raid is hostile to Spore as some alliances do. I find the notion that galaxy raids are hostile to be rather archaic in this smaller galaxy game.

Originally Posted by Recluse

2) I do not know how many, if any, other members disagreed with the decision, other than myself. I do, however, know plenty of members who were excited to roid Pengu as they were under the impression that Pengu was going hyper aggressive and warring towards Spore. This was quite enlightening to me, when I looked back on previous rounds politics.

What do you expect from members when p3nguins were attacking the few Spore forts we have over two nights AND had CT support during one of those nights? You wanted them to not be enthusiastic? You still don't understand, even now that p3nguins WERE aggressive, translating from galaxy raids to specific targeting.

I fail to see how it is 'enlightening' on previous rounds.

Originally Posted by Recluse

This actually made me laugh, and not in a bad way. During this time, The general "mood" was that Pengu must not want a war with Spore, because we were awesome, and that we were "winning" the war. This was due to Pengu basically not hitting us after the first day. Even some of the higher ups (some of our top planets, now) held the same general opinions, or at the very least, vocally went along with it as a positive for us, to kill the evul aggressive Pengu. All the while, I'm hearing from my in gal Pengu how much inc from ND and BF they are getting, in addition to ours, and how they are attacking BF. To me, I didn't see Pengu as weak, or losing, I saw them as ignoring us as insignificant, and focusing on a more important target. It was quite humerous to me, and even more enlightening regarding politics.

Tip: When you're in war, you don't paint the enemy as friendly. You attack them. I've been at war with plenty of my friends in this game, and you fail to grasp that you can be friends outside of the politics. Of course the war WAS positive for Spore. How could it not be? We got to hit them and they couldn't really effectively hit us back.

It wasn't that Spore was insignificant. By all accounts it seemed p3nguins were more pissed off at BlackFlag than anything, though if you look at logic, there is basis there for that move too.

Originally Posted by Recluse

I think this is what Assassin and booji are partially taking issue with. You all seem to agree now that Spore targeted Pengu heavy gals for several days (4 by booji's count, and I saw 3 or 4 myself) At which time Pengu responded (again, all agreed this was next step in events) Now, what I, as one of the aforementioned "sympathetic parties" saw, as well as what i think Assassin and booji saw, was that Spore was being aggressive, and Pengu responded as anyone would. Your response, to their response, was to paint them as both the aggressor and evil party and declare war on them.

As stated previously, if they were that bothered about the galaxy raiding that Spore was doing then why did they not speak to myself about it? Regardless, I don't count hitting 3 to 4 members across two galaxies as particularly hostile.

Additionally you state they responded as anyone would which is flawed, as I wouldn't. Spore response was to not hit p3nguins the night they SPECIFICALLY HIT SPORE WITH CT. I've put it in capitals to highlight just how much p3nguins took it to the next level. After we didn't hit them, p3nguins then decided to hit our forts again the next night - resulting in myself deciding enough was enough.

Also, not once did I refer to p3nguins as evil, so don't put words in my mouth. There was no bitterness in going to war with p3nguins, no lust for revenge. As stated before, the aggression from p3nguins was just one of the factors.

Originally Posted by Recluse

Neither booji, nor Assassin, from what I've seen, have been able to validate any discussions with CT. Perhaps they are lying, who knows, only them, but whilst Spore was being told of Pengu's evul plans, we were also advised of a certain someone "Doing Pengu's politics for them" Pengu then proceeded to come under fire by both ND and BF. One wonders what said politics were.

So the fact both CT and p3nguins hit our galaxies in perfect timing and without overlapping does not strike you as suspicious and the fact I had confirmation from CT that it was for one night only is not suspicious to you?

Originally Posted by Recluse

Speaking as said sympathetic party, my sympathy came about due to said events. I felt a friend, and their alliance, was being painted falsely, harassed and attacked. Having been a very vocal (and some would say, overly aggressive) supporter of commands decisions last round, which ended with us winning, it was not a flippant decision to question said command.

Let me give clarity on this. You approached me to ask for a planet NAP for your p3nguin galaxy member and I refused it. You took offense to this and were very vocal in being anti-war with p3nguins.

If you've not realised it yet, it's not MY job to play politics or to protect members of a DIFFERENT alliance. They were not painted falsely. p3nguins upped aggression from galaxy raiding to specific targeting and worked with an alliance first. They also DID ask another alliance to hit Spore which was the final straw in our own political moves.

Originally Posted by Recluse

Yet in the end, it was treated as such. It was not without its lessons, however. I learned quite quickly that loyalty in PA means nothing, and that regardless, to those above you, you're just planet and fleet to be used.

Loyalty is not questioning command decisions then stating you want no part in the war. If anything Recluse, you picked the wrong person to debate loyalty with as that is one of my key attributes. I am deathly loyal to my alliance. Always has been, always will.

Originally Posted by Recluse

PA truly has, I believe, become so alike to real life, in its methods, politics, and community, as to be falling in to the same dark pit reality is. Kind of a lesson on human psychology when roughly 700 people display the same shitty traits, loyalties, and political decision making that 7 billion do. Where the **** is our PA Switzerland?

It's a game Recluse. Just because I decided to target p3nguins with Spore doesn't make anyone evil or in a 'dark pit'. Just because I couldn't care less to whether your galaxy member was getting roided doesn't make me unsympathetic or emotionless, my priorities in this game are simply for MY alliance.

While I understand the greater majority of p3nguin members had no bearing or choice in the direction their HC took, it isn't plausible to single them out. Once again, there was no malice in the strike Spore did on p3nguins.

p3nguins are an old returning alliance and I wished them luck for this round at the start. I was quite impressed in how they took on Ultores, but they clearly have some areas to work on in order to improve for the next.