[All Systems Go]

Originally Posted by bradleykins

Whilst i disagree that they have not committed crimes, it is alleged they have committed no crimes, how can you be sure till they have been checked out?

Do you realsie the implications of this statement? You have just advocated a Police State where EVERYONE is considered to be guilty of a crime and it is up to them to prove their innocence or go to the gulag.

Innocent until proven guilty if one of the pillars of the legal system and you have just dismissed it out of hand.

I agree, on whims, but there are legal issues here that are just as relevant to stopping this, and it at least i believe that there is merit, though i can agree there are indeed many cases where corruption has been the downside of this, and thats what we must be vigilant against if the system is to work.

It is important to grasp the implications of what you are advocating so I shall say it again. You have just advocated a Police State where EVERYONE is considered to be guilty of a crime and it is up to them to prove their innocence or go to the gulag.

How can a system where people can be rounded up and jailed without charge ever 'work'? Even now, Gorden Brown wants to extend the limit to 90 days. In the future someone will wish to extend it further, no doubt. It is the essence of a totalitarian government; to lock up people the leaders consider 'undesirables' and call them 'terrorists.' There are loads of examples where this is the case. To display this point; see how many wars you can find where the invading party were not acting in 'self-defence' of in the 'defence' of those whose country they were bombign to ****.

I have no doubt that there was a selfish agenda on the cards for both governments in this matter, but this is politics.

Why should government be any less selfish (i.e. intent on strengthening the power of the state at the expense of the individual) in domestic policy?

i think the matter speaks for itself :

Yes it does. By 'We' I meant every single person in the United Kingdom. Who did you mean?

This is an extreme version of events, and is no where near happening atm, we do have choices and freedoms, and I myself, based on geography, am involved in even more struggles with government, ie Scottish independence, and the fact that i don't want it.

Do you really think these things happen overnight? They don't. Even if we aren't in a Police State yet, it is not somehow a defence for the UNDENIABLE FACT that the rights of society are being destroyed.

attacking my views is not a method which will make them any less valid

I agree with you on that.

i did not say that We want to remove all rights and move to some, as of yet, non existent dictatorship led future -

I'll ask this again just in case you miss it the first time around. Who is this 'We' and why do you think you are a part of it?

I believe that taking control and key government figures are what is needed in this country, Britain, and nothing less will be of any good.

Taking control of what exactly? Everyones life?

Simply stated:

"Evil prevails when good men do nothing."

Well here we agree, except on the definition of 'Evil.'

Funnily enough you may see the government elected by the people, evil, and that you yourself are indeed good. But then, EVERYTHING is based on perception.

I see the erosion of human freedoms as evil, I'm not particularly concerned with who is donig it. And what does being 'elected by the people' have to do with anything?