[All Systems Go]

Originally Posted by KaneED

If you want to take up the issue of gender in society, then why don't we look at pornography?

So the degradation they experience is voluntary, but what is not voluntary is the view that these women may perpetuate in the rest of society in the minds of men. A lot fo pornography shows sexually degrading and submissive acts performed and seemingly accepted by the women that take part in this.

There are some men who will believe this is how things really are with everyone around the round.

Pornography has the same problems as most forms of entertainment these days. It is a work of fiction but people consider it as fact. It's the same with any magazine really which is selling an imagee. ou know the ones, where the women are al super-thin and have 99 tips on how to make sure your arms are completely hairless.

So, can we judge society's beliefs of pronography and its effect on the perception of gener in society based one man's reaction to his pornographic viewing experience?

Why do the films show submissive women? Women were oppressed to a far greater degree before pornography became aa multi-million pound industry.

In the same way you can't judge Islam based on a few archaic beliefs on gender issues. It would seem to me that the people putting these women down are not necessarily prejudiced against women but rather extremely conservative. This may however, encourage prejudicial actions against women who don't conform to the traditional gender roles of women in society.

this just sounds like apologetitcs for the opression of women. You may as well have started with 'I'm not for the opression of women, but...'

In addition, are we sure this is about women being forced into these situations or is it the men being forced into it?

With the great history of female dominance over men and the fight for equal rights with the burning of the jock strap and the such, I'd this is a valid point.

I'm also sure that these ultra-conservatives would be more than happy to have female Rabbis.

I'm not saying it's not a dire situation where gender is still a basis for such extreme division, although undoubtedly there is a gender divide in the Western developed countries too, it is just less profound; but, and this may be in danger of moral relativism, in situations such as this are women really suffering?

It's not how much suffering bigoted policies cause, it's the fact that they exist in the first place. Arguments about suffering tend to be the first step on a road that leads to full-scale oppression and should not be tolerated at all.

You don't derive your happiness from where you sit on a bus, nor from the side of the street you walk on, and neither do your clothes provide you any great happiness. Like I said, it is not an enviable situation for these women and it may well indeed have a negative effect on their lives, but maybe we should be looking at it in terms of a "happiness index" to judge how much these things actually affect their lifestyles and themselves.

If it's even a little bit then it' already too much.