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Achilles · 17 Jul 2006, 14:08

I see very little objectivity from many posters in this thread. It should be recognised that human civilisations have always, through the thin facade of nationhood and patriotism, fought to extend their control and dominion. To eke out a better life for "their own" regardless of the cost imposed on others. There are a great many examples of this throughout history and, indeed, a very comparable one in my own country.

In the 1640's King James I of England ordered the plantation of Ulster, a forced redistribution of lands in the area that would in time become Northern Ireland. Direct English control of the whole of the Island of Ireland was ended in the 1920's with the institution of Home Rule (devolution) in the South and followed during WWII by total independance of this region. Britain retained control of the North though the lands were claimed by Ireland in it's 1937 constitution.

All was relatively peaceful until the 70's when a series of civil rights violations, capped by the shooting dead of 14 people (6 of whom were children) by a British Parachute regiment. Many more were injured. The response amongst Catholics was almost immediate and an up to then unpopular Provisional IRA suddenly found itself deluged with volunteers. Thus began 'The Troubles' - an extended period of ever increasing terrorism and civil rights violations. Catholics were interned, Protestants were bombed. For each aggressive move one side made the other found a way to reciprocate.

In the end, the solution* came about through a process of realistic negotiations. Irish people voted overwhelmingly (94%) to accept the permanent partition of our Island and our constitution was so amended. Let us be frank, anyone who looks at a map can see that the border at the top of the Teddy Bear is unnatural. It is unquestionable that, historically, we have far more right to it than the British and that Unionist faction are, infact, occupiers of land historically not theirs. However, when we set history aside and focus solely on what is pragmatic and reasonable currently it becomes clear that it is better to lose a lot of what was once yours and live in peace than to fight and bleed, kill and die
for some romantic notion of nationhood.

I submit that the same is true for the Palestinians today. The right and wrong of who owns what is irrelevant. Palestine must accept less because they are weaker and this is a sad thought. It should not be so, everything should be fair, but we all know it isn't. Yet so many cling to this dream of what once was and the river of blood flows ever onwards.

Surely it is time for these people to set aside the past and focus solely on their future. Dreams are not worth dying for.

*This may be premature but I honestly don't think a return to violence is an option now.

17 Jul 2006, 14:08	#61
Achilles Poblacht na hÉireann Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,167	Re: The Big Ol' War Thread I see very little objectivity from many posters in this thread. It should be recognised that human civilisations have always, through the thin facade of nationhood and patriotism, fought to extend their control and dominion. To eke out a better life for "their own" regardless of the cost imposed on others. There are a great many examples of this throughout history and, indeed, a very comparable one in my own country. In the 1640's King James I of England ordered the plantation of Ulster, a forced redistribution of lands in the area that would in time become Northern Ireland. Direct English control of the whole of the Island of Ireland was ended in the 1920's with the institution of Home Rule (devolution) in the South and followed during WWII by total independance of this region. Britain retained control of the North though the lands were claimed by Ireland in it's 1937 constitution. All was relatively peaceful until the 70's when a series of civil rights violations, capped by the shooting dead of 14 people (6 of whom were children) by a British Parachute regiment. Many more were injured. The response amongst Catholics was almost immediate and an up to then unpopular Provisional IRA suddenly found itself deluged with volunteers. Thus began 'The Troubles' - an extended period of ever increasing terrorism and civil rights violations. Catholics were interned, Protestants were bombed. For each aggressive move one side made the other found a way to reciprocate. In the end, the solution* came about through a process of realistic negotiations. Irish people voted overwhelmingly (94%) to accept the permanent partition of our Island and our constitution was so amended. Let us be frank, anyone who looks at a map can see that the border at the top of the Teddy Bear is unnatural. It is unquestionable that, historically, we have far more right to it than the British and that Unionist faction are, infact, occupiers of land historically not theirs. However, when we set history aside and focus solely on what is pragmatic and reasonable currently it becomes clear that it is better to lose a lot of what was once yours and live in peace than to fight and bleed, kill and die for some romantic notion of nationhood. I submit that the same is true for the Palestinians today. The right and wrong of who owns what is irrelevant. Palestine must accept less because they are weaker and this is a sad thought. It should not be so, everything should be fair, but we all know it isn't. Yet so many cling to this dream of what once was and the river of blood flows ever onwards. Surely it is time for these people to set aside the past and focus solely on their future. Dreams are not worth dying for. *This may be premature but I honestly don't think a return to violence is an option now.