[lokken]

Originally Posted by Phang

the tories have a young, charismatic leader. aside from whom they are the same ragtag band of bigots, fools, old boys, fascists and ill-intentioned geriatrics they've been for forty years.

No you're just talking about a number of their core supporters, who vote conservative habitually and who might vote UK independence/BNP. The individuals in control of the conservatives seem to a different breed to this bunch. These people are no less moronic than the maniacs who believe in die hard socialism and would end up wrecking our economy who have habitually voted Labour.

Don't let the crumbling edifice of Blairism fool you into thinking the Conservatives are somehow 'nicer' than Labour, don't mistake the drawing of a tree for the turning over of a new leaf.

I don't think anyone does, Cameron is pretty similar to Blair in many ways, with slight variations in policy. The difference is that for now, Cameron has the backing of his party. Essentially the top nobs at conservative HQ have identified the environment as their key policy and for the 21st century, it looks like it's probably going to be. Hardly a new leaf, but from their point of view - common sense considering how backwards the torch made them look.

The Tories will revert to the sleazy, pocket-lining, hateful old ****s that tore the country apart in the 80s the moment they get a chance.

Look at the UK in 1980, and then in 1990 -the difference is pretty huge. I don't think there's been a decade with more rapid progress in the UK. In the 1990's we developed some ability to handle it and we had what was pretty much a golden age in the late 90's. Every government should be judged on what it delivers as a whole and the Conservatives pretty much fixed their own **** ups in the late 80's and Major divided his party and ruined his chances of getting elected because of it, handing Blair a pretty good hand to deal with.

Cameron is leader now, but pause for but a moment and remember who he replaced. The Parliamentary Conservative party, and the polls advantage of the Tories, found their groundwork in Michael 'Section 28 and Immigration Quotas' Howard. That does not to me sound like a friendly party.

I agree that the thought of a party with Howard in charge is a scary one, but the fact is that the Conservatives opted for a 'moderniser' in Cameron, who is pretty much their own version of Blair (although Blair seems to be a better politician), which is just as frightening.

Also, Tebbit! I mean, Norman ****ing Tebbit! I know he doesn't like Cameron, but how the juggling christ can you mistake a party which permitted that ****er a job for a nice group of people?

I don't see how a party where Norman Tebbit feels marginalised because he thinks its not right wing enough is a bad thing.

It isn't a conspiracy, it's just barefaced lies and the Great British Public are lining up to get stung by it.

One might have said the same thing when Blair gained control of New Labour. The fact is Labour are in decline, the Conservatives want to be in government and are rethinking their policies and rebranding their identity to do so. Political parties listening to the people, who would have thought? While the tories won't keep all their promises, what do you suggest, the tories remaining unelectable and labour as it is stays in government?