[Sharur]

I must admit there's some parts of this discussion that go well above my intelligence to discuss this at work. I'd need alot of time to pounder it sitting in a dark room to answer some things. But I'll try to comment on a few other stuff. This doesn't mean I don't appreciate the comments I do not respond to, but they're just a bit too hard for me to comment on at this moment.

Originally Posted by JonnyBGood

Morality, in the way it has become conventionally understood, is, in essence, a human construct.

Yes, this is my point. It has been constructed with as greatest influence religion. Religion has always influenced history to a great extent in the past. And everybody just accepted them for being good, as that's what people do in most religions. Accept things that can't be/aren't explained for being correct (free will?). I would like to think that there's one rule in religion that kind of guides all other rules. "Don't do to others what you don't want to be done to yourself". And I still think this rule applies, but what if it didn't? The whole moral construct would come tumbling down, wouldn't it?
This is probably a very hypothetical case, as I doubt anybody can argue against this rule.
Silly question, but I kind of wonder what would happen if the whole moral construct would break down.
Altho I must comment on the "silly question" part that it's not because it appears silly at the moment, that it will not happen in the future.

Originally Posted by All Systems Go

Don't you think that thousands of years ago this advice might actually have been worthwhile?

Yeah, obviously. But not alot of people were around then to dispute it, and those that did got stoned to death. But it's not because this is how it is now, that it cannot be changed tho. Sure, discussing it on this forum here won't change the world or anything, but I'm mainly doing this to learn more about myself. I think most people are just looking for self-knowledge, no?

Originally Posted by Travler

All your moaning about forced morals and repression of thought. Give me a break. The biggest blight religion has unleashed upon the world is economics.

I doubt that, pagan tribes in history have been very skilled in economics aswell. The romans (altho they did worship gods) did more for this world than christianity has ever done.

Originally Posted by Travler

I mean where else would people take their hard earned money if they did not have religion? They would use the money to buy something usefull or at the least entertaining like booze. But religion steps in and says don't buy that booze, give the money to us. Don't use that money to buy a house the church needs your cash.

I'm not sure, are you preaching against the church now? Cause it sure sounds like it.

Originally Posted by Travler

Take away the money aspect and the rest is just fun. I mean did you ever see anyone complaining about a crazy hermit liviing in the woods and blaming him for morality? No of course not. Don't blame religion for morals well bought and paid for by the people. Blame the fools throwing their money at God and thinking it's what the Lord needs.

It's not the fools' fault they do that. They're fools because they listen to their priest and the church (not the music band). It's the church that tells people to donate, and they obide(sp?) as the meak (sp?) sheep they are.
Religion has made people into meak (sp?) sheep.
Not sure why we should blame a crazy hermit living in the woods for morality tho? Please elaborate. He's not doing anything wrong, and a there's a big chance that something happened in "the real world" that made him crazy and made him want to live in the woods.

Also, what's fun about being confined to a set of rules that you have to accept without doubting them? What's fun about dogmas? What's fun about being brainwashed?

Originally Posted by milo

I'm unsure what you're trying to say, but perhaps you should watch less television?

Where were you 15 years ago?

Originally Posted by milo

Incidently although i disagree with their various casual explanations for, well existence, anyone who seriously blames 'religion' for all of todays problems or thinks the world would be better if we banned/eradicated religion really scares the shit out of me.

How's that? I'm not saying kill off everybody that believes, I'm just saying they should stop brainwashing their children, and let them make the decision when they're at an age that can think for theirselves without being manipulated their whole life.
If this causes the eradication of religion then it's for the best, cause that would mean religion isn't needed and is just a burden.
If that doesn't cause the eradication of religion, then so be it, atleast people won't be forced into believes they don't really want and will accomplish true free will.