Britain to be shot down and quarantined by the thought police
A recent MORI poll has found that 22% of the British population are f*cking stupid and 17% are ignorant and don't understand logical fallacies.
when quizzed about education, at least 44% demonstrated that educational policy should be left well out of the hands of muppets like them. |
Re: Britain to be shot down and quarantined by the thought police
Stupid people aren't really the problem. Someone who is genuinely thick will tend not to be particularly dogmatic and often will, given time, come round to the side with the best argument.
The problem is people who are intelligent yet intellectually dishonest (and there are quite a few). You'll find them on a variety of forums, pushing the line that God "could" exist, that there's no "definitive" proof against ID and so on. They misuse concepts like theory, doubt or evidence and in turn warp the entire argument. Edit : I presume you're referencing this : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4648598.stm |
Re: Britain to be shot down and quarantined by the thought police
Are you saying that there is no way that God "could" exist (in some form, obviously not as part of any of the major religions except in the vaguest form.)
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There certainly is no "God". Anyone else that was paying attention to the programme on C4 called "The Root Of All Evil" not long ago would agree. Give me proof and i'll believe. Number 1 cause of war throughout history?: Religion |
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the problem with "god" is that it goes beyond things like reason and proof, to such an extent that it could never be disproved. I certainly wouldn't say that the flying spaghetti monster doesnt exist.
Anyone trying to analyse the problem of divinity from these kind of viewpoints is really getting the wrong end of the stick. Also, the whole "why are we here?" question is sill pretty pertinent, and it always will be as far as I can tell. |
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Religion isnt God doofus.
Whatever way you look at it God cannot be ruled out because fundamentally our perception of everything could be very wrong or just intended to appear the way it does. Whilst the bible is quite clearly incorrect the notion of a great being (even amongst some of the most hardened science types) has not been totally discounted. The perfect balance and harmony of everything is a bit eerie really. |
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just as a side point : i am undecided on whether there really is a great power but i can see it from both 'sides' if that makes sense.
Now i shall have a picnic on my white picket fence. |
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I'm already there!
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The reason we're here is a matter of an individuals destiny. You can't ask that question relating to the entire human race. I believe that it is up to an individual to decide why they are here. I can see your point of view though... i just refuse to buy it. In the majority of cases you won't convince religious people that there is no "God" and visa versa for people who don't believe. |
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Of course you can ask a question relating to the entire human race, indeed everything, I see no reason why not to. Also, I think it's far easier to convince people who don't believe in God to believe (or at least to accept the possibility) than it is to convince believers not to. I've changed my opinion enough times in my life already. I was a Christian till I was 14-15, then I became an atheist, I was until about age 19, and I've been an agnostic since then, I'm 21 now. |
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As for "Why are we here?" that's pretty easy. Conditions existed that led to live forming / evolving on this planet. If you mean "why" in some other (deeper) sense then you're probably suffering from a bizarre form of egotism a lot of human beings seem to suffer from. If you're asking why the universe exists, that seems a fairly idiotic question. Why would there be a reason? Even if the answer is God then we can still go on. So why did does God exist? Why did God's mum exist? Ad nausea. Really, this is a non-issue and anyone who harbours any vague belief in God is guilty of horrific intellectual dishonesty in my humble opinion. |
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Sounds very much the same as my upbringing Deepflow; i was brought up as a Catholic but when i came of age to make up my own mind i did.
Personally i think it's all tosh but i have respect for anyone that has a religious belife, to dedicate yourself to religion is something.... sometimes |
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I think you saying "why would there be a reason?" could be said to be intellectual dishonesty, refusing to question seems a bit silly to me. I doubt I am going to work it out to my satisfaction throughout my life, but I'm certainly going to try. As for the ad nauseum thing, why would there be a god, and who made god? etc etc etc The fact that it could go on forever doesnt mean that it's not worth questioning, I know full well I am highly unlikely to ever understand it, but that doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying. Just to give up and say "it doesnt matter why we are here" seems to me to be the far more intellectually dishonest position to take. Ignoring the greatest question simply because it's difficult. |
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...bit off topic now eh? lol
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I'm not too sure who or what god is. Mainly I wonder what he was doing before he created time. Then I wonder about that question. Then I wonder about questioning. Then I dismiss the problem as contrived, irrelevant and downright silly.
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Didn't I have a drunken conversation about this the other week with you Dante?
I'm quite aware that I probably made no sense... I'm with Deepflow on this topic. There is no doubt that Evolution happened. The only line about ID in a science lesson should be "Some religious people believe that the life process was started by God. While others believe it happened naturally. There is no real way to prove either way." I wish people stopped associating believing in a higher power to believing in God, but then I wish people stopped thinking that any higher power actually pays any attention to us and that the universe revolves around us. |
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Agreed - although relivant to the course of this post now and an interesting watch
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I do not mean dishonest in the sense you are lying or trying to be evil. I mean you are hiding behind concepts like "possible" or words like "could". I mean, do you believe you have a thirty foot penis? "Well, what if it was cloaked and phased and didn't weigh any more than a regular sized penis....etc....". Obviously you can go down that route, but it's insanity. When you start saying "I'm an agnostic because God could exist" then you might as well say "I'm agnostic over the issue of having a thirty foot penis because it's possible that I could even though there's no evidence to support that position". * = Random in the non-conscious sense of the word, not necessarily predictability or whatever. |
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I remember you being unimpressed with what I was saying... I think the alcohol affected my conversational skills.... Apologies! |
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Is there any scientific proof or viable hypothesis to explain the base levels of evolution, say from single-celled creatures to more complex organisms? Is there any developed theory concerning the intial emergence of life itself? It's a genuine question. I accept that evolution appears to happen at a certain level, but I'm relatively ignorant as to the theory as a whole. |
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This would suggest some kind of design to the universe, but the counter point is the multiverse theory, which seems to me to be just as much of a logical leap as assuming in the existence of some kind of higher power. Quote:
I dont see myself as hiding behind things like "could" and "might", I don't see it as insanity, it seems to my mind to be the only sensible path to take. P.S whenever I have said God in this thread, I've assumed absolutely nothing about it's nature. P.P.S I have a thirty foot penis. |
Re: Britain to be shot down and quarantined by the thought police
apart from the whole actual argument about god, can we at least agree that the people whore responded to this part of the poll:
When given a choice of three theories, people were asked which ones they would like to see taught in science lessons in British schools: 44% said creationism should be included 41% intelligent design 69% wanted evolution as part of the science curriculum. the 44 and 41 % choosers should actually be shot for saying that it should be taught in a science lesson! If you want to teach creationism or ID in RE classes, knock yourself out, leave them out of my science lessons though! |
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that kind of argument doesnt lead anywhere though, its not about what I expect to observe, its about what IS observable. Just because the cards were put down in that order doesn't mean that analysis of other orders and the consequences of that are pointless.
If the cards are put down in ANY other fashion the end result is still roughly the same, namely that you have a table with cards spread over it, thats all that matters. What matters with the nature of the universe and the laws of nature which underline it (Which is what I was talking about, the strength of gravity for example, or indeed any force, or the dark matter ratio or whatever it was (sorry im being crap at explaining that, im sure its on any number of websites though)) is SO much more important. |
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And after reading Dante's link , Im sorely tempted to further explore the path of the Pastafarian.
I WANT TO BELIEVE |
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Given that god is a supremely rational being who does not do things arbitrarily, nor change his mind from moment to moment, and given that he does intend to create a life-supporting universe, it would be contrary to his nature to create a universe which would in all probability fail to realise his intention unless he intervened to engage in the requisite fine tuning. Of course god moves in mysterious ways I hear :rolleyes: |
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I'm comforted by the knowledge that teaching untruthful things don't make them come true.
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I'd really need to hear a good reason why God is any more likely then whatever random thing you can imagine (be it a 30ft penis or whatever). I understand these reasons may be personal to you, but it'd be good to hear them. |
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This problem is significantly dimished if you feel that it's likely that there is an infinite, or countably infinite, number of universes, at which point the conditions we observe, assuming they are the only combination able to produce intelligent life, become the equivilent of "throw a 6 to start". |
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im glad to see at least 39% of the country has some sense. ps evolution supporters talking about logical fallacies, lollyroffletomatocakes. |
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Because if we are, please just bugger off. |
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Dante, lots of little things, things that could be coincedences, but I choose to not see them as such. This is generally because of the way I feel fundamentally, I never feel I'm alone, I certainly never feel that I understand the world in the slightest, and it seems silly to write out the idea of something which could (hypothetically, very hypothetically,) explain this. I would like to say again, all i really believe in is the possibility of some kind of cosmic force, call it god, call it karma, call it destiny, I have no assumptions about its characteristics, and even applying characteristics to it is pointless. I just get a sense that this isn't "all there is", not enough to convince me, but enough to not make me dismiss the idea utterly. |
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