Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
There was an initiative set up in Canada in 1994 whereby a group of people would join together to help rehabilitate (and to some extent monitor the bahaviour of) convicted sex offenders upon their release.
More recently, there have been projects set up in the UK doing the same thing. There was an article in today's G2[1] which included comments from some of the volunteers, and it made me think about whether I'd be able to contribute to such a project (assuming that the general apathy towards volunteering has been overcome). There are two main criteria (maybe three) that I think would need to be met: Firstly, and probably the most important, is whether you think you'd have the people skills (motivation, questioning etc.) to actually be helpful to the 'core member'. It is going to be a lot more demanding than helping plant trees. Secondly, and perhaps thirdly, would you be able to bring yourself to help such a person? And, if you could, would you care what other people thought? Would you, for example, go into the specifics if you were including it on a CV? Whilst at university, I was quite havily involved in volunteering projects involving the motivation of 'disadvantaged' people, and while I was never entirely convinced that I was being helpful, the feedback I got from the co-ordinators was rather good (I even won an award :p), so with training I'm fairly sure I could do a good job. I happen to think that rehabilitation is often preferable to punishment, and agree with the campaign's motto of 'no more victims', and so I'd seriously consider becoming involved in a year or two when my own life is a bit more settled (we're ignoring the apathy, remember?) Most people are liberal enough that I'd be fairly sure they wouldn't care/mind what I was doing, however I'm not convinced that going into details with people for who first impression matters (i.e. the CV) would be a good idea. It would be simple enough to gloss over the details, while still being able to include the pertinent/positive information, and the chance that it would be a tabloid-reader on the other end is fairly high. There are a couple of links to some sites with more information below. [1] http://society.guardian.co.uk/crimea...817574,00.html [2] http://www.ccjf.org/what/circles.html [3] [PDF] http://www.voma.org/docs/dyck.pdf [4] http://www.stjohnsottawa.ca/pages/cosa.html |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Quote:
As for telling other people about it, I think I'd probably just I was helping ex-offenders. I don't see why you'd need to go into specifics with other people. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
I don't think that it is necessary for the rehabilitators to know the nature of their client's crime, although I suppose it is public information. I don't understand why it would require a seperate effort from rehabilitating other criminals. I'm sure people don't want drug dealers, murderers, thieves, and rapists around children either.
In any case I don't see a difference. Of course, a 'personal' relationship between me and the convicted sex offender will be an impossibility. This sort of employment would require a professional and the nature of professionalism is that one puts aside personal feelings and focuses on performance, duty and outcomes. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
yeah but id be worried they'd harm me (unless we're talking about the non violent type of bank robber), the type of neighbour that would irritate/cause fear is a subjective thing, im quite sure the level of degeneracy that you and your friends partake in would reduce the level of 'neighbourlyness' you presented, if i found out a child sex offender was living next door i wouldn't automatically chain my nonexistent children to the radiator, if they presented a real threat they'd probably still be in prison. The terms that are used to label individuals are so broad as to be nearly meaningless id much rather have Graham Rix as a neighbour than the now dead boss of enron. When someone says 'child sex offender' they normally allude to an abducting rapist, taking into account the very very low level of such crimes and the likelyhood that anyone who was convicted of such a crime would be kept in prison till they no longer presented a threat and within the child rape stats the number of people who are family members; i can honestly say in all rationality i wouldn't be pack my family in the car and move if my neighbour was a convicted sexoffender. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
The phrase 'sex offender' is completely meaningless, please dont encourage this sort of tabloid driven nonsense which puts child rapists in the same category as someone who downloads photos of 16 year old girls.
Anyone who judges a 'criminal' based on the name of the broad name of crime rather than the specific details of their case is an idiot who is part of the problem. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
im just more verbose than nod :(
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
'Sex offender' is as good as term as any for someone who, when released from prison, is obliged to sign the register. It mentions in the articles that such people are determined to be in 1 of 3 categories, with categories 2 and 3 (where 1 is for people deemed least likely to re-offend) being those for who such 'circles' are deemed appropriate. Happier now? |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Paedophiles/Rapists should be castrated, then thrown into general population of a prison and tell the inmates that he/she diddles little kids.
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
I could do it if I was asked to. I doubt that I'd choose to do it, given the number of other things I could do, but I wouldn't have any ethical problems with it.
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Not even chemical castration delivers a 100% "cure" to this problem and thats why any psychiatrist who writes a certain amount of recommendations for sex offenders, will sooner or later inevitably write a positive recommendation for a person who re-offends. The worst of those cases usually make it into the tabloids and result in our beloved politicians making "popular" decisions regarding law changes. ps: about your original question - i would prefer to spend my time helping other people |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
There's a bit in "The Woodsman" when the main character (Kevin Bacon) a released child molestor is having a conversation with his brother-in-law and the brother-in-law says "OMG you should see your neice, she's so beautiful, you should see the little dresses her and her friends wear", etc. Bacon's character is obviously ashamedly excited by all this but you're left thinking of the brother-in-law ; "Dude...stfu for everyone's sake." Quote:
There are certain categories of crimes I wouldn't really be interested if they were going to reoffend. I'd simply wish they were dead, and in good conscience couldn't help them. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Quote:
Ive happily been the passenger in a car driven by someone who killed a person with their driving Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Rape (in the sense I am talking about it - violent rape of a stranger) is a little different and I think we've got to presume there's some sort of "problem" with a person who has done such a thing. Even in the cases of fairly violent rape I doubt someone receives a life sentence in the sense they die in prison - afaik that only happens with the worst categories of prisoners and where the Home Secretary basically says "Fk you if you think I'm being known as the guy who let out Myra Hindley" or whatever. In either case, it would seem a little naive to presume that we don't let people out of prison without them being "cured" somehow. The % of people reoffending after leaving prison seems to vary wildly from study to study but at least 5% within three years seems credible based on the US figures. Now 95% not reoffending (or at least, not re-committing a sex crime and/or getting caught) seems pretty good but I guess it depends on how we view it. If someone said there was a 5% chance the plane you were about to get on would explode you might consider waiting for the next one. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Hmmm, this thread has got me thinking.
I believe that people shouldn't be allowed to "break" in the first case. As such i think preventative schemes (such as training for the unemployed and parenting classes for the "poor" etc) are where "our money" should be targeted. However i appreciate that the problem of "criminals" exists at the moment and as such you need to attempt rehabilitation methods (as it's either that or leaving them to rot in jail). I think having a supportive environment for people, on their leaving prison, is an essential part of this. As such i think that if i really believe in my own personal brand of politics i should get involved in a scheme like the one mentioned in the OP. I am however lazy. However, if i don't get involved in something like this then i'm just a lazy good for nothing gobshite who doesn't deserve to air an opinion. What a dilema :( |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
If I didn't fit the sex offenders profile I could. They tend to go for the same type. I.e little boys or little girls. Some go for both. Some go for teenage also. Rarely do they go for grown men. But if a sex offender raped women, then the women in the work place surely wouldn't want to work with him.
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Statistics for sex offenses (rape, paedos and that kind of stuff) is very hard, since most cases arent reported and/or never discovered.
Official statistics in Norway says there are 300-400 reported rapes a year, and proven about 150 (If my memory serves me correct). Govermental agencies sometimes claim about 1000, while crisis centres and womens support group says about 9000, and thats just women. Who is to be belived? I think the program can be a good one, but I would not sign up for it. Hate is wrong, as is vengeance, but a few groups of people get no love, or sympathy, from me. That does not mean I would hunt them down or prosecute them, it just means that I cant say I care too much for what happens to them. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Quote:
"Rape" has become a fairly meaningless word these days, since its been diluted by fringe lunatics who want to lump as much under it as possible. You cant really get anywhere in these sort of discussions until youve forced the other person to define exactly what they are calling rape (and why). |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
So they are not really 'undiscovered' rapes. Criminologist and various sociologist have pretty reliable evidence that a lot of rapes go unreported, and have a rough idea of what plausibe percentages are not reported. On criminal surveys they ask people to report what crimes they've comitted, and if they use drugs, and etc. Also, rape is any form of sex that isn't consentual. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Discussions on these matters are made utterly pointless if we all decide our own definition of crimes. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Looking up rape on M-W was a little disturbing though: Quote:
Either way, www.dictionary.com is sane: Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
The distinction is that a lot (perhaps most) 'sex offenders' shouldnt be forced into programs like this in the first place, because despite tabloid hysteria, the vast majority of sex offences are either non-crimes in which no rights are violated, or crimes that are on the same level as (eg) assault. I have sympathy with a lot of sex-offenders due to the fact they are getting screwed over by an authoritarian government and a retarded populace, and would obviously treat them a lot more favourably than someone who has molested a 2 year old girl. Quote:
Anyway, given that I think the sex offender register should be abolished, I'm not likely to support programs that involve treating 'sex offenders' differently from all other criminals. Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Consider the statment : "The majority of people in the world are either over 80 or live in Asia/Africa" If you just quoted "the majority of people in the world are [...] over 80" clearly that can't be substantiated since it isn't true, but then again it's not supposed to be by itself. That first part of his "or" claim is fairly modest and would probably be true even if it applied to one case a year. Considering that we know that people who download child pornography are categorised as sexual offences it actually strikes me as something which requires almost zero additional support. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Additionally childs are much easier to manipulate as they are usually fully dependant on adults. They cant judge if its true that "everybody does that, but dont tell anybody" and there are lots of ways to subtly coerce childs into "giving consent". No consent*** -> rape Its really just the same like the fact that persons below a certain age are not allowed to go into some legal agreements. Otherwise i would assume that the market for organs of 5 year olds would drastically rise and the price of a liver would be around 2 buckets of vanilla icecream. *: no matter where you draw the line of age - it will always be "unfair" for some, but i assume 8 years is low enough for most even on GD ;) **: this is usually the point where some pro paedophile groups cite "funny" studies "proving" that babies already can "enjoy" sexual feelings ***: the whole consent problem is really much more "difficult" with mentally challenged/ill adults. By the same reasoning you would need to forbid them having sex. For some reason however, this isnt in the focus of the public and basically ignored. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Rape is having sex with someone who is not consenting. Hence, if someone is consenting, it's not rape. Even if we're overruling somebody's consent, claiming it's not good enough due to age, intoxication or general mental abilities*, it still doesn't change the fact that consent was given. Some molesters rape children, others have sex with them. This isn't a question about morality, who's able to give consent etc. It's a question about language, precision and fear-mongering. Please don't buy their inane logic. * I am quite fond of the idea of taking this whole 'not mentally capable of consenting to sex'-idea to it's logical conclusion though, and start prosecuting everybody who shag nitwit girls... anything which keep them from breeding is a good thing(TM). |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Might be going off topic, If the state (USA for example) is willing to do the death penalty for murder, would castration for paedophiles (probily repeat offenders) be a punishment fit for the crime? I would think so |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
In short, while you might specifically reduce the number of rapes being carried out (presuming you're talking about child molestors, not paedophiles generally) I doubt it's going to make many productive members of society. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
The definition is changed all the time, but for me, SK's is the correct one. No or in such a state as she cannot be fully aware = rape. If you **** a deaddrunk girl and she complains about it later, you made your own bed etc. Fringe groups always do that to words, you know. Most of the middleclass "revolutionary" left runs around calling everything that disagrees with them fascism, that makes it really hard to identify and combat proper fascism etc. Groups that are so extreme should just be ignored, as there are crazy womens group out there (penetration = rape, all girls are really lesbian just brainwashed etc) |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Quote:
If your opinion is that children of 8 years should be legally allowed to give consent to having sex (with adults) then a) we disagree b) you can freely create a movement/party trying to change the law in this matter in democratic countries. But dont mistake "freedom of speech" with "freedom of consequences" (like it is often done on GD) when you start your campaign. Quote:
Quote:
* is it "then" or "than"? :( is there a simple rule for this in english? |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Besides, you can still mutilate or sexoffend without a penis yourself. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
When you are saying It isnt going to make more productive members of society, I would beg to differ. Child abuse does wreak young peoples lives and some dont ever recover from it, as a result reduce their productiveness if you want to look at it from a clinical perspective. If this would reduce this vile crime (tougher penalty). Then why shouldnt it be? at what point does an innocent child have to keep suffering when more can be done? What is so taboo about it when the death penalty is used in parts of the world? This would be a punishment reserved for the "beyond redemption" |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
I dont know about you but that sends shivers down my spine. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
And why do you think it acts as a deterent? This is just my opinion, but if you rape or abuse a child you got a serious mental problem. Do you think that a mental problem can be cured just by a piece of paper? The US got the death penalty and very high prison sentences, does it stop even regular crimes? |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
A "castratee" who has a long history of abusing kids and it is now the time after the punishment is carried out. Meets a nice single mum with kids (with the view of getting in with the kids but not in a good way). The couple get on great, until they get into bed. Then the women says "where is your dick?" The woman is absolutey shocked and ends all ties with him and what do you know the children arent subject to abuse. Might not be as clear cut as that however. One less victim to worry about... thats a result. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
Lets ask the little girl who has to see a councillor through no fault of their own. Where did I say a piece of paper will cure the individual? My concern that the childs protection is paramount... the individual comes 2nd. Where did I say that the legal system is flawless? I did say that this should be reserved for the repeat offender than will be seen as "beyond redemption" To say that a man can be convicted wrongly once... plauseable To say that a man can be convicted wrongly twice... highly unlikely To say that a man can be convicted wrongly 3 times? we must have have an incompentent legal system for this to happen. which by the way unlike the death penalty the convicted dont die (and can only be tried once) If they have previously went to jail, served their time and still are willing to do the deed. Then you know things are at dire straights. |
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
|
Re: Working with a sex offender, could you do it?
Quote:
And as I have discussed previously I do not think that downloading child pornography should be a crime. Obviously making it is another matter (although the vast majority of photographs of children naked are probably harmless family photos, so I guess that can be victimless too). |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 15:41. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018