TV Licence Legal Help
 

Ok, I am currently living in a shared house along with 4 other students. We have a TV Licence in my name. The house we live in is 2 houses knocked together (number 30 and 31), something we did not realise/remember until today.

In january a guy came round and said we didnt have a tv licence, he gave us a grace period and said 'get one'. I rang up and made sure that we were on their database as having a tv licence.

Today my housemate has been summoned to appear in court for not having a tv licence. The licence we have is for number 30 and his court summoning is for number 31. I've foned the TV licence company and they have now merged the 2 properties together on their computers.

I'm not entirely sure where to go from here, should my housemate just fill in the forms he was sent saying 'not guilty' and attend his hearing? Or would writing a letter to the courts explaining our situation mean they may cancel the hearing? Any help on the situation would be greatly appreciated (especially from legal eagles) as i really dont have a clue what to do or what could happen. Will he be fined anyway or does it sound pretty hopeful?

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

Surely its up to the TV company to cancel the court stuff, but theyre probably too lazy to get up off their fat asses, so if i was you, id write a letter to the courts explaining what happened and also send the forms back aswell.

But i dont know the "legallity" on that either.

Im sure Yahwe knows tho.

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

Do you have a seperate or shared contract with your landlord?

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

we've got a shared tenancy agreement i believe, he said one licence covered us all anyway

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

make sure you get confirmation from the company in writing that they view the two properties as one and that you are covered.

I wouldn't worry too much as you don't seem to have done anything wrong and are instead trapped in goverment purgatory.

If you do go to court make sure you use phrase it like

your honor the man said we'd be deadmeat if we didn't get this done, they're a bunch of mongchops etc

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

how tall are you?

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

6'4, I play basketball. Reckon u cud share some of ur legal knowledge?

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topless pic?

(i bothered to research the answer but you're not getting it unless you're attractive because you hardly ever post ...)

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

Why don't you ring the TV licence people again and ask them what you should do about it instead of asking on an internet forum about a very bizarre situation that none of us are likely to have experienced or know anything about :confused:

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If you need a licence for each of the properties, then I'm going to get in touch with the people in 25a downstairs and see if they'll share a licence with me next year, since clearly we only need one for the whole of no. 25.

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if it's got a different address then you need seperate licenses. A bit like council tax.
Officially I think you're meant to get one for every bedroom (if you're a group renting) but noone does this.

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i believe that you can have a tv liscence for one property providing rent is being paid on the property as one. Take my current flat for example, its in a house with 5 other people, however we all have a lock on our doors, and we all pay rent seperately not as a collective unit. So we all have to get a tv liscence if we have a tv. Only I have a tv liscence the rest are risking it, but have been hounded by the liscencing peope.

My house from last year however was different, our doors didnt have locks (ie yale locks) it was also not split into flats, the rent itself was collective hence why we only needed one tv liscence even though there were about 4 tvs in the house and belonging to different people.

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I warned you that you wouldn't get the answer without my help seanG ...

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

As I recall, the situation with shared houses is partly the locks on doors thing, but that can be overridden if there are some communal rooms (for which kitchens, hallways and bathrooms don't count) or, I think, if you share a communal meal - this apparently being the basis of being a proper, single household, as opposed to a bunch of people who happen to live behind the same door. Otherwise a whole lot of teenagers need to get their own TV licences.

As for seanG's situation, I think it is clear they are not liable to pay for a second TV licence, but I don't know what they should do about the summons.

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Turn up in court with the license, wave it under the nose of the idiots at the licensing authority and then be amused at the public money that has just been wasted due to their ignorance/stupidy/laziness (delete where applicable)

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

It is based on whether you have individual locks on your doors (bolts don't count).

In halls of residence, for example, you might share a meal and bathrooms with the other residents, but you still all need a separate TV licence.
In some accommodation you have yale/chubb locks on your individual bedroom doors. This means you need a separate TV licence.

I expect it can be appealed in a court though, if (as Ebany said) you can prove that you are a single household.

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

err, stop spouting bollocks.

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/index.jsp

read. understand.

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/information/students.jsp

is probably more useful.

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

since not everyone is a student here i linked to the index as there are seperate bits for renting etc.

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

I share with other people - is it my responsibility to provide a TV Licence?

-
If you are going to be sharing a house, a separate tenancy agreement would normally mean your room is classified a separately occupied place. In this case, if you have a TV in your room, you will need your own TV Licence.

However, if there is only one TV in a communal area, then only one TV Licence is required. Similarly, if your house can be treated as one place shared by all, then only one TV Licence is required - a joint tenancy agreement would normally indicate that there is only one separately occupied place.

Ultimately, if your address is unlicensed, both you and your landlord could face prosecution and a fine of £1,000 regardless of your tenancy agreement.


Sorry NB, but that sounds a lot like what I said? :confused:

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

Seeing as the exact same bit is in the "Landlords and Tenants" bit I expect you didn't look very hard.

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

seeing as absolutely nothing anyone has posted adresses the point at hand I wonder how you manage to maintain a mistaken air of self superiority

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I'm not really sure why you're worried tbh.

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It's something I've been working on over the years.

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

don't own a tv if you can't be arsed with a licence

listen to the radio

it's better

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

I don't own a tv. I own a cathode ray tube and some other equipment I assembled myself.

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

Actually you don't have to chuck your TV out to exempt yourself from a licence.
Although they word it in such a way that most people will assume TV = need licence (clearly they do this on purpose), please note the boldificated part below:

For example, upon my arrival, I found the reception in hall to be shit. Because of this, I don't have the aerial connected to the TV card in my PC, thus I don't have the ability to recieve TV, ergo I don't need a licence. And before any smartarse tries to correct me on this, I did take the time to check this out with the agency itself.
Why would you want a TV with no aerial? Games consoles, DVD/video watching, as a monitor (playback device for video editing), etc etc. The provision is there specifically to prevent the government taxing TV ownership itself. Unfortunately, they are still allowed to word it sneakily so that people who skim-read miss it, thus providing £++.

Another common misconception is that a TV in, say, the lounge of a shared flat with individual contracts (ie. licence required for each room) requires a licence. In fact, any licence for one of the contracted rooms also covers equipment in communal areas. Of course, if no-one has a licence then you still need to get one, but you may as well get one for one of the rooms rather than just licencing your lounge, seeing as it's covered either way.

I realise none of this helps the original question.
I'm sure the OP will shortly provide the topless shots to yahwe, and this will be resolved.


Also, has anyone else experienced the sheer stupidity of the agency's hired grunts?
After 4 letters, each increasingly threatening, each met with a phonecall from each person in the flat to explain that they didn't have a TV (or in my case, that I wasn't using it to recieve TV), they sent a grunt round to check. Twice.
On the first occasion we rolled our eyes and let him in.
By the second time, we were fed up of wasting our money phoning them to correct their database which clearly wasn't being updated anyway, so we refused him entry until he actually bothered to go get a policeman and a warrent, which he did. While he made an arse out of himself looking round the flat (and making me explain why I didn't need a ****ing licence for the millionth time), we informed the poor police officer of the agency's inability to keep any proper record of updates. He was less than impressed, especially when the grunt phoned the office to disprove our story, and miraculously they actually did have the previous visit on record somewhere.

Can someone (ie. Yahwe) explain why the TV Licence lot are allowed to operate on the pretext of guilty until proven innocent?
I don't have any of the letters on me, but the gist of the last one was something like "Despite repeated requests you are still watching TV illegally at <address>. An enforcement office will be visiting you shortly. If you would like to avoid the investigation, please call <number>."
What the hell? Why is it my responsibility to prove that I'm not breaking the law? Last time I checked, that wasn't how the system was supposed to work. What happened to burden of proof?
It's the "debt collection" tone of the letters and the use of the word "illegal" in particular that really pisses me off.

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

There are different burdens of proof. Depending on the type of offense. Silly little regulations, accompanied by small fines generally require proof on a balance of probabilities. Not beyond reasonable doubt.

In addition the burden in these cases generally resides with the defendant.

It is called Strict Liability. It is there to stop mentally ill people from issuing court proceedings for every parking ticket and speeding fine, asking the crown to proove it beyond reasonable doubt.

PS. This is addressed to megla's final point. Not the initial question. I also make no claim to knowledge of whether an offense under British TV Liscencing Law's are in fact offenses of Strict Liability.

That said... ignorance of the Law is no excuse, unless you live 8,000 kilometres away in New Zealand.

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

Don't make up lies Ste :(

If you have a shared tenancy agreement, you only need one license. If you have seperate tenency agreements you need a license for each room.

I know this because I had to look into it because the retards I live with are too stupid :/

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

That seems rather excessive. My parents found that simply ignoring the letters makes their computers break and just start sending the same cycle of increasingly rude letters all over again. Obviously trying to help them out is what triggered their response.

You're so wrong you make my head hurt. :(

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

You'd not get very far in the colonies then :(

The reverse may well be true.

Re: TV Licence Legal Help
 

Citizens Advice Bureau?