Another School Shooting
I was watching the news a bit ago, and the top story was this.
For those of you who wish to skip the article, a 32 year old milk man went into a 1 room Amish Schoolhouse and bound up all the girls, sent the adults and boys outside, and proceded to shoot the 9 girls, killing 3 of them and critically injuring the other 7. I mention this mainly becuase it's something I'd never thought I'd here, or even a thought passing through my mind. Amish people (for those who don't know), don't embrace modern technology (electricity, phones, tv, computers, etc.), they use horses and buggies still, and are probably some of the most passive people in the world. So, it's almost shocking to hear of a crime of such magnitude involving them. It also makes me think this guy was a big coward to essentially take out his grudge on these passive innocent people, just because it was the most convenient way to take out his grudge. One of the other things I noticed reading the article, this is apparently the 3rd school shooting in a week in the US. When I was in school, we never dreamed of such an event; we didn't have metal detectors, and our random locker searches were for the most sinful thing teenagers would have at our school...cigarettes. I was almost that they at least said the guy committed suicide after shooting the girls. |
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Right, there were 9 girls and a teenage "Teacher's Aide" who was also a female and one of the three who died, I forgot to mention that part.
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stop selling guns.
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The problem is at this point stopping the sale of guns wouldn't really do much, as there's enough black market weapons that anyone who really wanted one wouldn't have to go far to find one. Although this would be a good idea, to stop selling or manufacturing weapons for commercial use, but just for military or civil police. On a side note, according to The Tonight Show with Jay Leno, a town in Idaho is actually passing a law that there has to be a gun in every house. One of his better jokes was "Hate to be a Jehovah's Witness in that town." |
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Yeah that was a sucky thing to do. The thing thats lol is that he dropped his OWN kids off at school, then went to ANOTHER school and shot up little girls.
Whats sad is that he wasn't crazy or anything. He had enough composure to drop his kids at school. Locate a different school, and then let out the pregnant women and women with small babies. |
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Edit: Just so you know, this is the part where I agreed with you: Quote:
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He may have gone home to write his suicide notes (4 of them, to each child and the wife) and then it may have been the nearest school from his home. |
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As always, if even one of the adults present at the school had been armed, this probably wouldnt have happened. |
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5 dead now unfortunately, and still rest on critical list :( the only saving grace from all this is that the sick **** that did it is dead :s
Why oh Why do these things happen, as a father of 3 i cannot imagine the heartache to be felt from that happening to one of my little girls! |
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Then they act surprised that the new barbwire fences and metal detectors didnt help much because there where more guns already inside the school then a common person could carry and the average teacher isnt really Jackie Chan with added sharpshooter abilities. |
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I think the first step would be to restrict sale, as Yahwe suggested, and then crack down on illegal arms trade about half as strongly as the government cracks down on the drug trade.
Making it difficult to buy guns isn't going to stop everything, but it is going to slow some people down, discourage them etc. every life counts. |
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the statistics on gun crime have been colated for years. Machiavelli himself warns against arming your populace. Your problem, despite your irresistable and chronic need to troll, is that you have no real skill with logic. Your perverted little ginger infected mind tells you "if X who murdered 5 people had been shot no one would have been murdered" rather than telling you that "If X had been shot for carrying a gun, by another civilian carrying a gun, there would be one murder". Your 'solution' reduces the murder rate from 5 to 1. Mine reduces the murder rate from 5 to 0 ... and you have the audacity to imply my solution is 'retarded'. There is no workable model for both allowing people to carry guns and allowing people to shoot people who carry guns. |
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He cannot be punished and we cannot find out why he did it. The only "good thing" about him being dead is that he can't shoot anyone else... but if he was arrested then he wouldn't be able to anyway. |
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I think not! |
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If you're telling me that people who have committed mass murder get a 'slap on the wrist' (especially in the US) then what crazy propaganda have you been reading? Let him spend the rest of his days in prison. If anyone says that isn't a punishment then I'd like to see them survive a couple of weeks of it let alone 40 years. |
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As some of you may know, I attend a private school in North London. Most private schools are not full of "rude boys" who try their hardest to get involved in gang warfare, they are generally full of civilised people who know that their parents are paying for their education etc, they aren't involved in any of this popular gang warfare in London. My school has/had people bringing cannabis into school, I mean 3/4 or so of the people in my year smoke cannabis regularly/semi regularly (some do it during lunch break etc), so schools aren't really what you percieve. My old school, however, was far worse, we had people brinigng knives in every day etc, I'd never seen anyone selling drugs (unlike my new school, this one wasn't really a tight-knit community so I didn't really know who were the drug dealers etc, but it did happen). Basically, schools have really changed since when you were in school |
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First line. |
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The guns aren't the problem, rather its the inequality in how and when they can be carried. |
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I didnt say that he should be killed tho, all i said is that i am glad he is dead! |
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You guys are making somewhat of a good point in that if there was armed security at the school it might not of happened, but being an Amish school, they probably never saw a need, the crime rate among Amish is so low it's almost ridiculous to even imagine something like this would happen. As for normal schools, yes they should be have adequate security, but maybe they could use those wonderful new rubber bullets that don't kill the guy, or a stun gun. I don't think having loaded guns with real bullets in a school sends out a good message to the students, thinking that they're in such danger going to school they need armed security. Sure you might argue it provides a sense of protection, but a majority of the nutcases who shoot up schools do enough planning they'd probably figure out a way to neutralize the guard anyway.
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Storing guns in school (no matter how secure) has at least two major flaws. 1) A crazy pupil could break in and find an arsenal on hand. If this was avoided with some kind of biometric protection (rather than a key or passcode, which could be stolen with enough vigilence) the cost would sky rocket. 2) Even if a pupil brought in their own weapons, it is very different to operate a firearm under such stressful conditions especially if you have to shoot a human being. this becomes more pronounced considering most school shooters (afaik) end up killing themselves. In the end, I don't really see how 'more guns in schools=less shootings in schools' can be accurate. Edit: Shootings would probably be more organised. Knowing that teachers could be armed may increae the rate of shots fired to 'get the job done' before their work in interrupted. |
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Thats an odd question to ask, if the killing is legitimate why does it matter? I think that its perfectly conceivable that less people would die as the detterant would be greater. Regardless the number of deaths isn't the issue here, personal protection is. I don't think the number of guns in a country is a determining factor in the number of psychopaths that exist, if the number of deaths in a year for a particular region is of concern we'd have to look at banning cars. |
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You don't usually store guns if you carry them for personal protection. Quote:
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More guns in schools = More chance of gunman being killed before doing harm. |
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Besides, how do you think the gunman's going to announce himself? A quick hello? No, they're going to open fire on the kids and it'll be once a few are dead that the agent will get there in time. Most of these gunmen kill themselves anyway once they run out of ammo/targets/hatred, I doubt the threat of being killed by someone else is too worrying for them. |
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It depends on what you mean by legitimate. If you honestly thought someone was a threat, when they were not and you shot them dead, would that be legitimate? Quote:
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What about in college? Should 18 year old students be allowed to carry guns for their own protections? Quote:
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So in your eyes it's perfectly ok for anyone to bring any weapon they want into a school? Does that include the kids? |
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Also in response to your edit are you mildly insane? Have you seen any lone gunmen attacking army bases recently? We're not talking about people who are trying to storm a city or make a political point here. |
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milo do you propose teachers should carry guns at all times? If you don't then it's pretty pointless I guess, since they won't be able to get to their guns if the shooter KNOWS they are trying to arm themselves. If you do, what do you think the odds are a student will steal the gun from the teacher? Most teachers are in pretty close contact with the students.
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My edit was to cover the one teacher having a gun scenario, rather than some type of war-zone protection, with snipers and guard dogs. Most of these attacks are (at least in part) pre-planned. this guy knew exactly what he was doing and equipped himself for the job. I really doubt that having an armd gured would have made him reconsider, especially as he knew he was going to die. He would simply have worked out a way to ensure that the guard was either neutralised or the alarm was not raised until the latest possible moment. Surely he knew that when he let the women and little boys go free that they would get the police. |
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He was troubled by demons that he could not expose to anyone (even professional help) without facing legal proceedings and the potential loss of his family. that paedophilia (for want of a better word) is seen as inherently evil instantly puts people off from seeking help (assuming they want it), this is multiplied infinatly if a crime has already been committed. Whilst I do agree that we should look to treat the causes (rather than shoot the effects) I doubt there was anything that could have been done to prevent this particular case. Quote:
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If you don't mean that then, no. However, if you are showing no signs of a desire to abuse children (but are constantly thinking about it) then go on to do it then what can be done? Unless you lock everyone up then some people will slip through the net, whatever happens. Quote:
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