So what do we do?
 

Great article at slate: http://www.slate.com/id/2147492/nav/tap1/

Maybe there is nothing we can do to protect ourselves, maybe we just have to end up living with the fact that terrorism can be successful. That slate article is just what I have been thinking:

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Discount it all you want but let’s face it, Religion is behind these terrorist that want to kill everyone. These devout Muslims want to die fighting Jews and Christians so they can go to heaven for sure.

I wonder what the statistics are between getting killed by lighting and getting killed by a terrorist attack.

None of us are safe anywhere. I live a block and half away from a Mosque in a small city filled with racists. If the crack dealers don’t get you then the terrorist will. We are still most likely to die in a car crash or from heart disease.

But if you want to keep from getting killed for being Jewish or Christian just go ahead and have “666” tattooed to your forehead. No mistaking that Mark of the Beast.

If radical Muslims are trying to kill you maybe you should think about who the enemies of Radical Muslims are.

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It's difficult to take articles like this seriously when they gloss over the motivation for acts like these, like it's some ****ing mystery.

Of course people are going to die through terrorist actions, but we might want to think why "Islam" suddenly decided it didn't like "us".

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I like this sentence. It reminds me how, in 1933, the Nazi Party just sprung out of the ground fully formed and took power in Germany without the need for any single person to have been a fascist beforehand.

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What hysterical rubbish.

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I don't profess to know at lot about religion, but isn't a fundamental part of whatever creed you believe in not to kill your fellow man? If they followed their religion as it was wrote then there would be no terrorists. To me it’s not to blame, quite the opposite.

But what do I know; my religion is an unopened pack of Silk Cut and pink silk French knickers.

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Surely black's better?

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purely for comfort reasons.

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Another core part of religion is that people who do not belong to your own religion are of lesser (or little) worth.

Religion is "the cause"* of some bloody conflicts. What i cant really see is where religion did much of "the opposite". It only seems to lessen conflicts which wouldnt even arise if religion didnt exist at all.

* mostly it might not be religion itself, but people interpreting religion

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we've been at war with "islam" for 1300 years now.

i agree that that was a shitty article, and i would say that flaw is certainly part of the reason, but i haven't heard any policy proposals that would really help (obviously the current admin's policy of "some napalm outta put this fire right out" isn't optimal, but aside from the obvious).

anyway, I (and I assume almost everyone) am in the John Kerry school of thought on the subject. We will never bring about a total end to terrorism, even if there was some Magic Policy that would suddenly make the Islam world love us, I'm sure it would at the same time piss off a bunch of right wing crazies domestically who would take a lil' terror into their own hands. We can't jerk off everyone on the planet at once.

However, over any range of time you can think of, terrorism hasn't been 1% as bad a problem as shitty driving. Competent diplomacy, 'public relations', and counter-terrorism can keep it that way for the forseeable future.

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The Dante lifestyle is outlawed in 9 religions and all known legal systems :(

I don't think the article was that bad, if you take it in the context that something will be going on in the world because humans are just ****ed up then there is some validity in the opinion that becoming increasingly overzealous with security is pointless. He does have an element of 'ohh just ignore them' which is obvioulsy stupid.


btw in all the talk about solids and liquids this caught my eye because its exaactly what i thought


without wanting mi6 to shoot my head off for giving ideas to the terrorists how far do we want to search people? the next step is obviously swalloing condoms of semtex, sticking a large turdy log of semtex up your arse and feeling the ecstacy of the detonator pressing against your prostate a second before you blow up.

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There are some technological solutions to the problem of identifying liquids or any suspect substances (even non-invasive searches of body cavities :/). They'll be expensive, of course, although metal detectors were expensive at first too.

Another option is passenger profiling (i.e., trying to identify the potential terrorists in addition to just looking for weapons). The Israelis seem to have been very successful with this approach on their airline. There's a cost there too though.

In the long term, however, if and as airport security improves the terrorists always have the option to switch to softer targets (subways, trains, buses, stadiums, theaters, restaurants, clubs and ultimately any place where people gather).

Any sort of screening at an airport or any public venue is a last resort. Ideally you want to stop the terrorists long before they get that far via good intel (as was done in this most recent incident).

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It annoys me when people who do not know history throw around large numbers.

I have no idea who you mean by the word 'we'.

900 years ago anyone rational was part of the 'we' supporting islam.

(don't claim knowledge or make statements about that which you know not)

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"The Reconquista is commonly accepted to have started in 722"

1284 years ago.

certainly my post was much more of a generalization than it could have been, but if you really want to argue that hostility between western ("christian") civ* and the muslim world is a 20th (21st?) century phenomenon, be my guest.

* the relevant "we" i guess

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so 'our' first conflict with islam was 1300 years ago, therefore we have been at war with islam for 1300 years? i see. rome invaded britain in 43ad, therefore we were at war with rome for 1900 years. that makes sense.

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Actually that is not true of Islam. Their religion specifically states that the only guaranteed method of entry into heaven is by dying while fighting Jews and Christians. So the fundamentalists or the true believers of Islam are not only allowed to attack Jews and Christians they are encouraged with a reward to do so.

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Does it really say that? I have a copy of the Koran, tell me the passage where it says this.

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He's invented the "Jews and Christians" bit, but the bit of the Qur'an used as evidence that those who die fighting a holy war are promised paradise is:

"Think not of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord." (Surat al Imran, verse 169)

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Isn't that quite a bit different to (emphasis added).

Sure, people who die in Allah's way are being promised heaven, but that's not to say that's the only guaranteed way to get there.

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And why does 'Allah's way' have to mean in holy war? It could mean dying while peacefully protesting religious intolernance, for instance.

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What do we do?


At some point we will have to draw the line where we stop straining our personal freedoms, liberties and luxuries becasue you cannot stop a madmen from doing insane acts. You can however stop a trend or trying to disrupt and demotivate their attempts as much as possible.

One should seek to stop the attemps but also to demotivate them to do so, being this constructive or destructive.

However what is the price we are willing to pay?

The price is set by politicians. Politicians who are run not only by fear for terrorists*, but also by fear of losing votes. They will always go for the overkill, never the smart or the best solution, but a solution that works in combination with it being 'sellable to the public'
A situation I do not like.

Future history will show us, I predict, that during these years the western world overreacted and thus making this 'era' last longer. We are desperately trying to find another way to pay for our freedom, not with our lives. While in the end we may have to pay for our lives with our freedom. And at that point, we will have failed.
At some point a society must be willing to risk lives, to take losses, something we refuse to do because our society has made rules for itself that will conflict time and time again. It is time to redefine who we are and what we are willing to pay to stay that way.






*funny that people are afraid of people who are named as people whose intention it is to disperse fear

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Obviously it's very hard to prove that no others exist, but I've never heard one mentioned. (The important word, of course, is "guaranteed" - you could try all your life to live by Allah's rules, emulate the Prophet and live as a good Muslim, but at the end of it you still might not reach Allah's exacting standards, so why not just die in a holy war and avoid the risk?)

And how exactly are you planning on arranging that? "Dear fascist oppressors, today I shall be peacefully protesting against religious intolerance outside your headquarters, and I'd be ever so grateful if you'd shoot me so I can go to heaven."?

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nice source, not biased one bit.. no... not at all

oh btw from the same site:

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I am just saying it could be interpreted differently.

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i'm fairly sure the bible says that killing is ok if you do it for god, so this is justified in the bible as well. this could just as easily (if the roles were reversed, muslim's being the establishment, chritians being the minority) happen the other way around.

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i am fairly sure the bible can say about anything, it is one of the most ambiguous and internally inconsistent books ever written.

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Posting to let Islam know I'm not at war with it.

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I think this: http://hotair.com/archives/2006/08/1...-in-the-skies/


pretty much sums it up... its harsh but its true.
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Ocean View Condominiums Pattaya

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white male
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler

young white male
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbi...chool_massacre

white male
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunblan...blane_Massacre

white male
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipman


well taking into account for hitler; "european males" probably seem to be the worst group, banning them from airports probably wouldnt help but we should probably make some restrictions on them forming governments

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way to go to take this out of context.
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Carmel_Surprise

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This is you using distorted facts to make a racist argument.

You/Hotair forgot the part where young Asian males tried to blow up airplanes over the pacific. Oh and the there are all the christian abortion clininc bombers, and then the guys who blew up the oklahoma city federal building, the second worst terrorist attack in the US that also killed children, they were neither young, nor muslim, nor arab.

This is me presenting facts you left out to show your argument for what it is.

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Firstly, im actually not being racisit, islam is not a race.

Secondly, in THIS instance it is young, muslim males.
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Sunset Boulevard Residence Prathumnak

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Lets ban everyone from airports just to be on the safe side.

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It's ok guys - because islam isn't a race you're allowed to be prejudice against muslims!

It's bigotry pure and simple, and seeing as muslims don't go around wearing an armband saying what religion they follow I think you'd probably not be able to tell the difference between dark-skinned muslims, hindus, buddhists, sikhs, christians etc etc.

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Yes? Religion can be interpreted pretty much any way you want, pacifism (if thats what you believe in) seems ok enough.




What the hell was the point of that? What was the argument???

btw who is she? shes hot with small boobs. But tell the culturally imperialist bitch that saying they're british asians is the same difference as saying british pakistanis since the word asian in the UK means those of indian/pakistani/srilankan/bangladeshi origin and-we-don't-want-her-yanky-interpretation-of-the-word-thankyouverymuch. We call the rest orientals.

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But the argument you presented was that all instances of terrorism are perpetrated by young muslim males of Arab descent. What you think just by racial profiling we'll eliminate the threat of airplanes as weapons? You don't think right wing facist movements, fanatical religious cults, militant leftists, <enter violent group here> aren't learning about how to use planes as weapons? Dude I don't want anyone with dangerous items to get on planes, regardless of their race, creed, or color. Everyone needs to be checked. The negative consequences of racial profiling far outweigh any benefits, in fact there probably would be no benefits at all.

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Okay then I retract my stupid, insensitive post. I don't believe that right wing bitch in the clip. I live with a young Muslim male who I am very fond of. However, as of late it the perpetrators have been young Muslim males.... I fly between the US and UK a lot and now I have to deal with more insecurity in air travel. Wonderful....
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Marijuana Card

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Good job on missing the point (in fact, the whole discussion) entirely there.

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Yeah i often do that, i took the discussion to be about an alternative to getting into heaven or guaranteed way of getting into heaven, the reason i say religion can be interepreted in anyway you want wasn't some vague philosophical reference to all ideology but rather because the majority of the muslims who i work with at this moment in time are sufis* and their concept of the guranteed way to get into heaven is substantively if not utterly different to killing yourself. I've used the word guaranteed deliberately, i understand its emphasis in this context and what it means in the beliefs of the people i know.


*and some ahmadis but apparently they aren't considered muslims by all.

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This phrase was made famous by a dutch neo nazi politician as I recall ? It's nice to see you get your ideas on racial profiling from somewhere reputable.

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I wonder why he defends him self against being called a "racist", is it a bad thing?
Clearly the problem with racism is that you are pre-judging an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. If this is done by categorising a group of people by race its called racism and if its done by other means it’s not called racism but the fundamental problem is still the same it just doesn’t have such a catchy word. As ste said "its bigotry pure and simple"

I for one have grown up in a school with a very strong sence of "OOOMM racism is bad" though they never really made a point of what the actual problem with it was. I guess this sort of half teaching results in people like "TouRiQueT" who think racism is "bad" but are happy to proudly stand up all it us but under any other name


However we must bear in mind that Islam is a religion not a race so we could assume that all Muslims follow the same "moral code" as set in their holy texts. This might provide some reasoning to believe that if some followers of the religion are "bad" (killing women and children) the rest of the followers will have similar beliefs though perhaps to a lesser extent.

HOWEVER we must also bear in mind that a religion which exists in different cultures will tend to have numerous different interpretations of key issues to fit the laws and morality of the society its in. so a religion will generally have a wide range of followers sometimes believing completely contradictory things. This making it unfair to judge people based on the name of their religion as the same religion is intrepreted in a number of different ways.

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The most funny (or sad, depends on how you look on todays society i guess) thing about the war on terror is that in defence off our western democracies those democracies became null and void. The amount of freedoms that have been taken away with the justification of protecting those freedoms is huge. Not that they who take them away grumbles, I doubt there has been a period in history where the rich make more money (the keeping the population scared tactic has worked a treat before, but my god they are good at it now!)

Oh good luck with doing bodycounts. Somehow I doubt that the "muslims" wins when it comes to dead civillians.

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just so you know (anon rep recieved) the bible actaully says MURDER is wrong, but murder is the killing of an innocent person, which enenies of the lord are not.