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All Systems Go 2 Dec 2006 01:08

Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
itt we discuss which celebrities would have been better off dying young rather than living on and ruining whaat would have been a masterful legacy. the nominees can be any age but cannnot be any member of U2 as they have always been shit and their death at any stage could only be seen as a slight redemption for all the pain they have inflicted.

I would like to start this thread by denouncing Morrissey. Having missed the Smiths (way before my time) up until recently all I knew of Morrissey (apart from this Charming Man) was his recent solo work and his comments in the press. I hated him. I really hated him and I hated everyone who had ever been associated and anthing he had ever done, because (and this is undeniable) he is a santimonious, self-reightious, arrogent prick who lyrics were so pathetic they literally made me want to vomit into the air and catch it on my face.

then one day, I saw a 15 second clip of an interview with Morrissey from 15-20 years ago and I was rather taken aback by both his apperance and his demenour, whilst he didn't speak there was something that struck me as odd, he in no way resembled the Morrissey I had come to loathe. So I took a chance and listened 'to the queen is dead' and I was blown away. It was brilliant, lyrically I thought it was the freshest use of the English language that I'd seen for a long time.

Somewhere along the line, Morrissey became a bitter, twisted individual (probably when he lost all his talent) and just says things for shock value to sell his overwhelmingly bollocks records. It would have been better for him and the world if he had been shot after his debut solo record (which by all accounts is pretty good) so we could have a lost icon whose perished works we could lament for generations. Instead, we have this burnt out old bastard who should put in a nursing home and smothered in his sleep.

Little Timmy 2 Dec 2006 01:24

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
hmmm I can see where your coming from.

My vote would be Bono..who now comes across as some self proclaimed Messiah of anything he thinks is a good cause.Whereas after the joshua tree U2 lost it. IMHO

Dante Hicks 2 Dec 2006 02:32

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
I had very little opinion at all about Morrissey until very recently. He can't sing, but neither can a lot of the people I like and while The Smiths always struck me as deathly dull they seem to have influenced a bunch of cool people and were probably more intelligent than most of their contemporaries in the music biz.

And yeah, he's an animal rights nut but it's not like anyone really listened to him so I didn't really care. On top of this, I don't read dross like NME so he rarely entered my mental landscape.

However, my girlfriend seems to have some obsession with Morrissey and I've now heard more of his droaning crap (accompanied with praise for him) than any man deserves to hear. As a result I now hate him with a fiery passion. :( I think I might even be seeing him in concert at some point soon so look out for a "Morrissey stabbed by badly dressed gothy looking tramp" news story.

Not sure if it's been mentioned here before, but speaking of Morrissey does anyone else find the list of "Top Living Icons" the BBC were voting on kind of shit : http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/livingicons/vote/ ? Although 4 of the 12 come from South London. \o/

Dante Hicks 2 Dec 2006 02:34

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
(splitting post into two for coherence)

As for your actual topic, while there's undoubtedly plenty of cultural products that have gone downhill (The Simpsons anybody?) I'm not sure about individuals.

There are a bunch of people who were (allegedly) right-on back in the day but are now shills for the man (Christopher Hitchens being the obvious example, but you could include the likes of Peter Mandleson here too) but generally if you examine the historical record closely you see these people were always tossers, albeit for a different "team". As Chomsky is fond of pointing out (slightly unfairly) the journey from being a Maoist/Stalinist to being a Neo-Con isn't so great.

More generally though, whole swathes of the Anglo-American liberal-left intellegensia acted utterly shamefully after 9/11 (and even before). Again though, I had zero faith in those people to start with. Their celebrity equivalents like Ben Elton and Alexi Sayle have also got shitter as time has gone on but who was holding these people up as icons of integrity to start with? Ditto "serious" actors who appear in adverts for companies like Barclays...

Politics aside, I like plenty of people who aren't as good as they used to be (Woody Allen, Kevin Smith as two examples) but I'm still glad they're making movies. Yeah, if you watch Allen's latest (Scoop) back to back with Manhattan or Annie Hall it does look kind of rubbish, but so what? (OK, I'm not glad George Lucas is still making movies, but he was never any sort of hero anyway).

I suppose I hold so few people in high regard it's difficult to think how anyone could fall from grace to be honest. :(

I guess I was mildly disappointed that Fat Mike (NOFX) got so heavily involved in that Punk Voter nonsense in the last election, but his heart was in the right place he was just slightly naive (and I can't think of a better idea anyway). He is just a singer anyway (that doesn't mean you require qualifications to speak on these matters, but he was never a political "leader" or even spokersperson to start with).

In summary, there are a bunch of people who probably should be shot, but I can't think of anyone where it would be to protect their legacy, rather than the general goal of making the universe a better place. The Simpsons however should have probably died a few seasons ago though.

Dante Hicks 2 Dec 2006 05:27

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
But the worst is Francis Ford Coppola

I was going to suggest New York Stories, but I think I only enjoyed the Woody Allen segment of that. :(

milo 2 Dec 2006 08:26

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
PAGD, hahahahhahahahahah :salute: :crymeariver:








Obviously politicians especially heads of executive are a standard here (assuming we're talking about democracies), aside from them. Tom Cruise seems to be heading towards lunacy. Bob Geldoff annoys the **** out of me with every passing second - he was never 'great' to begin with but of late its gotten worse. What is it with the irish and trying to save the entire planet? It would have been nicer to only be left with pictures of a young brigitte bardot. If Ali had died in the late 70s his standing would be greater. Paul Mccartney should have been standing next to lennon shouting 'me next'. Though to be fair the karma of the universe got him back by marrying heather mills.

qebab 2 Dec 2006 08:55

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
I would maybe say Roger Waters. I'm not very fond of his work (solo or with Pink Floyd) after The Wall, and a lot of their work before it was great. And he made a bit of a dick of himself in the trials regarding whether the rest of the band would be allowed to use the name Pink Floyd after he left the band.

Obviously a few directors here and there, and I agree on Francis Ford Coppola.

All Systems Go 2 Dec 2006 11:52

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
The Simpsons however should have probably died a few seasons ago though.

But the films going to be good, right?



Right? :confused:

Nadar 2 Dec 2006 11:58

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
I can't believe no one mentioned Pete Doherty yet, so I will! He'd be better off if he weren't born at all to be honest.

edit for ASG: That's about his person, not his band or its music.

Phang 2 Dec 2006 12:20

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadar
I can't believe no one mentioned Pete Doherty yet, so I will! He'd be better off if he weren't born at all to be honest.

edit for ASG: That's about his person, not his band or its music.

DRUGS

All Systems Go 2 Dec 2006 12:23

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadar
I can't believe no one mentioned Pete Doherty yet, so I will! He'd be better off if he weren't born at all to be honest.

edit for ASG: That's about his person, not his band or its music.

I'm 'fraid that don't fall within the rules of the game, kitten. :(

Nadar 2 Dec 2006 13:32

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by All Systems Go
I'm 'fraid that don't fall within the rules of the game, kitten. :(

Explain?

All Systems Go 2 Dec 2006 13:49

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nadar
Explain?

this is more of a 'When Good Celebs Go Bad!' thread rather than 'Celebs From Hell!'.

People who have a great creative past but somewhere along the line they lost it and started produced manure. Saying 'I don't like <insert generic celebrity> so they should die' kinda falls outside of this remit and therrefore should be kept for a more appropriate thread i.e. GD's Enemies List.

to say you think Pete Doherty should have never been born implies that you think he never produced anything of worth, which would instantly disqualify him from the topic at hand.

Have a nice day. :)

All Systems Go 2 Dec 2006 16:33

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by horn
well when i was a kid i associated good things with christianity.

So you're nominating Jesus?

Once again, this isn't 'Celebs From Hell!' :D

Travler 2 Dec 2006 17:00

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Tom Cruise gets my vote. Some where between the movie Rain Man (1988) and Jerry Maguire (1996) Tom degraded as a person and an actor. Personally I blame the influence of Nicole Kidman in his life from the movie Days of Thunder (1990).

DarkHeart 2 Dec 2006 17:13

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
http://music.donyell.net/britney_spe...ney-spears.jpg

http://www.briscoebarnyard.com/pictures/britney.jpg

o britney

i hate it when a b*t*h lets herself go

All Systems Go 2 Dec 2006 17:21

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkHeart

OMG, when did Britney Spears become a big, fat lesbian? And why was I not informed? :confused:

Mistwraith 3 Dec 2006 10:50

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
shes pregnant in that picture ;p

Knight Theamion 3 Dec 2006 11:43

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
pregnant in her cheeks?

Mistwraith 3 Dec 2006 11:51

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
despite what the stick insects and supermodels do to look good while pregnant.. most normal people put on weight .. all over :P

Dante Hicks 3 Dec 2006 12:27

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
The body builds fat stores for later use I think. There's some sort of factoid that a woman should gain 20 - 30 pounds during pregnancy. Obviously that's not all going to be concentrated in one place and considering a new born baby is unlikely to be much more than 10lbs it's obviously not just their weight.

djbass 3 Dec 2006 13:12

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Britney is testemony to the mantra 'Sex Sells'.

I said from the very day she released her first album she was an untalented hoe, set to one day fizzle into obscurity. Now that she's lost her one asset her popularity is plummeting, all I can say is don't say I didn't tell you so.

That aside it pains me to put forward Liam Howlett from The Prodigy. I am a literal Prodigy fanboy, going so far as to collect every rare or hard to find snippet from his long standing carrier that I can get my hands on. Still a very talented mixer and composer but he seems to have lost focus on the direction he wants his music to head in. I gave leeway to the fact that almost every artist at some point in their carrier choose to experiment or change with the times to allow their music to take on new boundries. He never really recovered though, and his musical style is all over shop.

SpaceMonkey 3 Dec 2006 14:26

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Roger Daltrey and the rest of The Who.

They once sang 'I hope I die before I get old' and then didn't. Now the clean living ex-rockers are inflicting their middle-aged mediocrity upon our ears. Just die already.

All Systems Go 3 Dec 2006 14:28

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey
Roger Daltrey and the rest of The Who.

They once sang 'I hope I die before I get old' and then didn't. Now the clean living ex-rockers are inflicting their middle-aged mediocrity upon our ears. Just die already.

Well, al except for Keith Moon. ;)

SpaceMonkey 3 Dec 2006 15:02

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Yeah, sorry to Keith's shade. Keep rocking.

djbass 3 Dec 2006 15:50

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue
You soothsayer you. Where do you get this unique insight?

Heh, you may mock me now.. but I can't count the number of drooling men that shunted me around that time with the words "OMGZ! How can you say that she is a sex godess!!11!!111".

furball 3 Dec 2006 16:22

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by djbass
Heh, you may mock me now.. but I can't count the number of drooling men that shunted me around that time with the words "OMGZ! How can you say that she is a sex godess!!11!!111".

I'd still do her.

Achilles 3 Dec 2006 16:25

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by djbass
"OMGZ! How can you say that she is a sex godess!!11!!111".

That sentence is just all wrong. It's says the opposite of what you mean. This is a great internet lesson on why punctuation is important. With just 1 question mark you could have communicated your thoughts without me having to read what you wrote four times. "OMGZ! How can you say that? She is a sex Goddess."

Also, in response to that bigot milo, not all Irish people want to save the world. That is a shocking accusation. I sincerely hope a muslim blows up next to you in the near future.

Dante Hicks 3 Dec 2006 16:26

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by djbass
Heh, you may mock me now.. but I can't count the number of drooling men that shunted me around that time with the words "OMGZ! How can you say that she is a sex godess!!11!!111".

Being a sex goddess and an untalented hoe are hardly mutually exclusive though.

Tomkat 3 Dec 2006 17:22

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Travler
Tom Cruise gets my vote. Some where between the movie Rain Man (1988) and Jerry Maguire (1996) Tom degraded as a person and an actor. Personally I blame the influence of Nicole Kidman in his life from the movie Days of Thunder (1990).

He's always been a nutter. He just changed his PR person. Originally he had someone who told him to keep a low profile (wisely) and be quite a mysterious character. Then he got rid of her and got a new one, who told him he should be more accessible to the public and show a "human" side to his life. The result - completely bonkers.

I still love him though!

Dark_Mage 3 Dec 2006 20:25

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
I suppose if Paul Gascoigne had died at the start of 1991 he might have been remembered with similar regard as Duncan Edwards. At 23 he was one of the best players in the world and had been named in the world cup team of the tournament, he'd also just won the BBC Sports Personality of the Year. And he'd got to #2 in the charts!

We'd never have had the spate of injuries which cost him his form, his drink and drug problems and of course the good old wife beating. All he'd be remembered for is being a fantastic footballer and scoring ridiculous numbers of goals from midfield. That would be nice.

djbass 4 Dec 2006 10:02

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Achilles
That sentence is just all wrong. It's says the opposite of what you mean. This is a great internet lesson on why punctuation is important. With just 1 question mark you could have communicated your thoughts without me having to read what you wrote four times. "OMGZ! How can you say that? She is a sex Goddess."

You do realise the entire sentence is grammatically incorrect to start with?

There is a sense of irony in you trying to correct something that is deliberately broken. It was meant to satire the way blind enthusiasm can turn a persons brain to mush.

DarkHeart 6 Dec 2006 23:27

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark_Mage
I suppose if Paul Gascoigne had died at the start of 1991 he might have been remembered with similar regard as Duncan Edwards. At 23 he was one of the best players in the world and had been named in the world cup team of the tournament, he'd also just won the BBC Sports Personality of the Year. And he'd got to #2 in the charts!

We'd never have had the spate of injuries which cost him his form, his drink and drug problems and of course the good old wife beating. All he'd be remembered for is being a fantastic footballer and scoring ridiculous numbers of goals from midfield. That would be nice.



but then we wouldn't have Bianca!!

http://eur.i1.yimg.com/eur.yimg.com/i/uk/tv/l/li7.jpg

ftw

Hebdomad 7 Dec 2006 14:08

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
I never liked Morrissey. But then I always assumed you had to have long black greesy hair partly covering your face whilst you write poetry about your imminent suicide on a rainy Saturday evening whilst all your friend have gone out drinking leaving you alone to wallow in your own pool of self-pitty at the age of sixteen to really appreciate Morrissey, and I was more a listen to OK Computer until you start doubting reality actually exists kind of teenager.

Opi 7 Dec 2006 16:03

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Michael Jackson comes to mind. If he had died in 1995 or a bit before, he would still be remembered as king of pop.

Also, Axl Rose.

milo 8 Dec 2006 23:32

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Dwight Schultz. Mad murdoch and barclay were actually portrayed by a ranting lunatic

Ill throw in face and deanna troi since i think they share his views


edit these probably come under 'general dissapointment' rather than fall from grace

Dante Hicks 9 Dec 2006 05:55

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by milo
Ill throw in face and deanna troi since i think they share his views

Really? Source for Troi? I couldn't find many links between Marina Sitis and politics at all. She's given 7 relative minor campaign contribution all to Hollywood Women's PAC, which I believe donates to liberal candidates (that was years ago though, to be fair). But, as one right-wing blog moans :
Quote:

I don't know if this will effect the Trekkie vote but Star Trek fans can note that Spock (Leonard Nimoy), Uhura (Nichelle Nichols), Sulu (George Takei), Nurse Chapel (Majel Roddenberry), La Forge (LeVar Burton), Troi (Marina Sirtis), Captain Janeway (Kate Mulgrew) and The Doctor (Robert Beltran) all donated to Democrats.
As that's from the Family Research Council try to overlook the rather glaring error in the above (Picardo gave to the Democrats anyway).

But Sirtis does seem to hate the French. but it's not clear whether that's because she's a born again Republican or just because she's British.

Dirk Benedict certainly seems to be with Schultz though (they're on the show together). Although it's difficult to tell how much of America's rightism is confused:
Quote:

"Dwight (Schultz, who played A Team's Howling Mad Murdoch) and I are doing a radio show in Montana. We're calling it 'Dirk and Dwight's one-man show.' I play piano, he sings, we do a few songs and we discuss the politics of The A Team -- how the liberal left went after us, how the National Education Association and teacher's unions tried to get us off the air.
The A-Team were continuously fighting the government (well, except when they sold out at the end) and most episodes I remember were them helping out some folks against someone more powerful than them. I must have missed the episodes where they evicted the poor immigrant families so there homes could be turned into luxury apartments, or where they help break a strike so the CEO could get a $25m bonus. :(

But he also seems to be rather embittered generally; witness his diatribe against the new BSG here. He could be jealous that the new show is considerably better than his incarnation though or that a girl's tougher than his character ever was. Mostly it just seems some sort of anti-feminist rant.

He did beat cancer by the power of yoghurt though, so maybe that affected him. I'm not sure what to make of this, it's anti-system upto a point, slightly anti-rationalist but with a strong admiration for Voltaire. Oh well.

Maladoni 9 Dec 2006 07:04

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Paul Francis Gadd.

milo 9 Dec 2006 13:09

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
I already had a vague memory of sirtis being a 'conservative' and tbh i just lumped her in with benedict and schultz because he lists her as 'friend' on his website. Admitedly she could be completely right on and just happen to share his views on the vast government ufo conspiracy.

Schultz and Benedict don't seem to be 'conservatives/republicans' in the contempory sense. If anything they seem to be attacking bush for being too soft in some areas. Listening and reading to them rant makes me think they have more in common with gunned up mountain men.

One thing i don't understand is this constant 'liberals are suppressing freedom of speech/they control hollywood' etc. I don't think hollywood supports a particularly 'liberal' or righton view, its corporatist, not that im suggesting theres anything wrong with that. Hollywood won't allow interracial relationships and keeps the gays in the closet because it doesn't want to lose money.

Whats liberal about it?

Regarding BSG i hated it to begin with, but i have to say its very good. I prefer it to sg-sg1.

Dante Hicks 9 Dec 2006 14:10

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by milo
I don't think hollywood supports a particularly 'liberal' or righton view, its corporatist, not that im suggesting theres anything wrong with that. Hollywood won't allow interracial relationships and keeps the gays in the closet because it doesn't want to lose money.

There's a big difference between Hollywood (as in the studios and the corporations that own them) and the people who make up Hollywood (i.e. the actors, directors, etc.) Obviously there's some overlap but the latter lot are perceived as drastically more likely to be non-religious, pro-choice, pro-Democrat pro-not killing gays, etc as your average American.
Quote:

Whats liberal about it?
Well speaking about Hollywood's output I'd guess the biggest complaint the American right have with it is that it's not as religious as America is. I presume it's because of those evil Jews, but it's striking how few films are explicitly religious when you think about how religious America is. Or take TV. How many characters of sitcoms mention (or are seen regularly) attending religious worship? I've watched dozens (possibly over a hundred) US sitcoms and the only one I can think off the top of my head is The Simpsons (allegedly the most liberal show in America at one point).

You get the related cultural issues too (single-parents aren't demonised enough, you don't see abortion doctors being shot enough, too many characters are from or live in Jew York, etc).

milo 9 Dec 2006 14:49

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
There's a big difference between Hollywood (as in the studios and the corporations that own them) and the people who make up Hollywood (i.e. the actors, directors, etc.) Obviously there's some overlap but the latter lot are perceived as drastically more likely to be non-religious, pro-choice, pro-Democrat pro-not killing gays, etc as your average American.

I wouldn't call the latter 'hollywood', the industry is defined by the companies, they have the power. The people who complain about hollywood usually talk in terms of its output.




Regarding more 'relgious moviess' isn't that set to change? Mel Gibson pretty much showed there was a massive market for 'conservative output'.

Dante Hicks 9 Dec 2006 15:42

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by milo
I wouldn't call the latter 'hollywood', the industry is defined by the companies, they have the power. The people who complain about hollywood usually talk in terms of its output.

I'd certainly agree the output is more is important, but I don't think you can ignore the people in Hollywood when considering where vitriol is directed. Go search through the Conservative blogs for the fun things people have to say about Tim Robbins, Susan Sarandon, Sean Penn, et al. In almost all cases they'll refer to them as being part of the Hollywood-left. The bitterness against these people is entirely out of proportion with their real influence, but there we go.

Quote:

Regarding more 'relgious moviess' isn't that set to change? Mel Gibson pretty much showed there was a massive market for 'conservative output'.
Maybe, but why haven't there been more up until now? Are you seriously suggesting that not one person thought that a country of strongly religious folks might appreciate some religious themed movies?

As I say though I think a cultural thing. You're saying you don't think Hollywood is very liberal because (presumably) compared to your views, they're not very (in their output). But if you're someone who is quite conservative, obviously Hollywood's output is very liberal. I'd certainly judge that on cultural issues Hollywood is probably more liberal than much (most of?) of America. As I said earlier, no-one (in TV sitcom-land) seems to go to church or even strongly believe in God, very few (non-police/criminals) seem to own guns and very few seem to have a problem with homosexuals. A disproportionate number are set in the North-East or the West Coast. And so on.

Now, there may be valid marketing reasons behind some of these things (i.e. any show which starts ranting about abortion or scripture is going to get far, it's presumed) but that still doesn't stop the final outcome being very liberal by comparison to the real America.

Opi 10 Dec 2006 13:20

Re: Celebrity Mercy Killing
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dante Hicks
Maybe, but why haven't there been more up until now? Are you seriously suggesting that not one person thought that a country of strongly religious folks might appreciate some religious themed movies?

But who should come up with these movies? I imagine a large part of the screenwriters is not very religious-conservative, and even if they write some religious themed movies there need to be other people who like them and promote them to studio bosses (or however this works). Either most of these scripts are shit or they are deemed unprofitable or the liberal Hollywood cult doesn't let conservative religious ideas get through. I guess it is a combination of a and b.


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