Latest Kyoto Report for EU
If the United States had ratified the Kyoto Protocol, this would be justification for nuking all of your capital cities.
If you want to sign a treaty should you not consider doing what you said you would do? http://reports.eea.europa.eu/technic...0report%202008 |
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you are actually retarded aren't you?
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To whom it may concern in the US government,
Please sack him. Kind regards, The competent people who should have his job |
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Doesn't it just piss you off that you try to do good things, and your damn countrymen keep burning fossil fuels?
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Your job is easy compared to mine. That's why I get paid more than you get paid. |
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I would somewhat doubt you earn more than yahwe
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did it ever occur to you that on some issues your judgement may be clouded? also, you made me agree with yahwe, i hate you :p |
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I think the best proof you could offer would be to meet your Kyoto targets (preferably without doing major damage to your economies). It seems silly to me to argue how emissions reductions sufficient to halt global warming are really quite affordable and doable while so many countries are failing to achieve even the modest Kyoto reductions. Something's not adding up. :confused: Quote:
First of all, you can't just charge all military spending against Iraq and Afghanistan. Contrary to what you may have heard, the US military maintains ships and bases in all sorts of places outside the middle east--even places that don't have oil! In any case, US military spending is running at 3.7% of GDP. Second, total appropriations (including supplementals and continuing resolutions) for military operations, base security, reconstruction, foreign aid, embassy costs and veterans' health care for Iraq and Afghanistan are about $700B from 9/11/2001 through mid-2008 (source). The $700B figure represents the off-budget costs of Iraq and Afghanistan above and beyond the cost of maintaining the military. Averaged out over the ~7 years since 9/11, that represents an average of about $100B a year (although higher in the later years and lower in the earlier years). In FY2006, for example, $116B was allocated and US GDP that year was $13.2T; so the cost of Iraq and Afghanistan that year was about 0.9% of GDP--nowhere close to 10% of GDP. |
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Let's say I have a widget plant in Stillwater, MN, and keep costs low by dumping my waste mercury in the mississippi. Eventually, minnesota talks to wisconsin about reducing mercury pollution and wisconsin says "if you can prove that it's possible to reduce mercury dumping without massive job loss, we'll opt in". Minnesota approaches me about reducing my mercury dumping, and I say if they even think about it, I'm moving right over to Hudson, WI and continuing my dumping. Minnesota could move forward with the new restrictions, which will result in: massive job loss, and no reduction in the river contamination, or they could give up. Either way, Wisconsin will claim they were proven right. Which is an intellecutally dishonest viewpoint; if both had opted in, widget prices would have gone up a few %, but the economy would be fine and people would be better off. |
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Both of these flaws were well known when the treaty was drawn up. No country (to my knowledge) was forced to ratify it; yet nevertheless, many did. Hopefully, they will be more diligent when drawing up and ratifying such treaties in the future. In any event, the Annex I signatories are stuck with a bad treaty largely of their own making. The best they can do now is to try to meet their targets with--hopefully--minimal economic impact. I sincerely wish them the best. Quote:
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HOW could any nation state be forced to ratify anything? This sort of slip up is indicitive of what is really going on in your and Texan's psyche in this utterly utterly pathetic thread. 1) George Bush decided not to ratify Kyoto 2) Therefore America did not ratify Kyoto 3) At the time of Kyoto we all knew it was not enough 4) George Bush would not even go that far 5) George Bush having not ratified it the treaty becomes pointless because without America things like this fail (see League of Nations) 6) Years later we can see that George Bush WAS WRONG. We know now that America should have backed Kyoto, indeed we all should have gone a damn site further 7) Texan (a frankly incompetent troll - more interested in arguing over my income with people who are not me than sticking to a point) decides that the only way he can justify his salary (and I don't care what it is because if it were tuppance a year it'd be a ****ing waste) is to attack the remnant shell of Kyoto And in to this frame steps you, a usually rational chap, doing what? 'Boldly defending American values?'. Do give it a rest. It's not America who is to blame for Kyoto being a pointless pile of crap. It's one man with the lowest approval rating I have ever seen for a serving president (forgive me but Nixon was before my time and frankly I'm pretty sure you could argue that at least Nixon had charm). Stop, stop, stop for goodness sake always jumping on bandwagons. |
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I'm not really into the subject. But I do hope you realise that the kyoto-targets were set for 2012 and 2020. Even though not every country had reached the set greenhouse gas emissions targets yet in 2006, one year after the treaty went into effect, a lot of west European countries, such as Germany and the Netherlands seem to be well underway towards exceeding the set targets.
And Texan, I don't know if you wanted to make a point by linking that 580 page report, but I'm not going to read that entire report in hope that I might find something that supports your claim. You'll have to be more specific. |
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If (statistics about) the subject interest(s) you, but you're too lazy to read the entire report, then there's a nice easy graph on CO2 emissions on one of the first few pages.
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This forum is filled with Dutch, British and German people who's governments actually seem to do quite well in reducing emissions. He needs to understand that the polluting Spanish, for example, are not our countrymen, and we are in no way responsible for what they do, nor can we force them to do anything. If he was posting on a Spanish forum then he might have had a valid point. That aside, I don't see how 'others doing poorly at reaching climate goals' would justify not trying to reach climate goals at all. |
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Maybe it would be time to openly discuss the effects of climate change in the USA. Without censoring climate change reports that is. Maybe then will participating in international attempts to reduce harmful emissions will sound more viable to Americans.
http://oversight.house.gov/documents/20071210101633.pdf |
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Hey those hummers are cool.
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The average U.S citizen uses more energy than the average european citizen. The US is quite far behind the EU (even if it hurts me acclaiming the EU) and many countries in Europe when it comes to envirmental standards and recycling (Germany recycles 3/4 of the paper it uses).
There is ofcourse going to be costs when it comes to cutting Co2 and other greenhouses gases. Oil is a very easily used and still rather cheap energy source. However, oil supplies are running out and will eventuelly run totally out on a world wide basis. But the costs of cutting emissions should also be balanced against the cost of weather changes and the effects that have. Sadly the rich can move away from problems (just imagine if Floridia and California got badly hit), while the poor can't. I won't go into why capitalism is a huge part of the problem and a hinderance to a solution, since thats to obvious for all the well-educated readers of this board. ;) |
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opt in there is no point in the US joining? |
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The leader in what?
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Has been for a while now. (west country farmer voice) Orrdd, bat it dan't seeam t' lyke the warrd empire, praabably because it involves responzibilities |
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