r25 Stats: Your Thoughts
Well, what does everyone think?
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I think that, in general, PA team must want to not be bothered with this game anymore. Stats + alliance limit to 60, they really are trying to drive everyone away.
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TBH it's easier to get fewer people into an alliance than 70.
Should have lowered it to 40. |
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lower you set alliance limits, the more people won't play. I Think that has been proven over the last 5-10 rounds. Also, the fewer people in 1 alliance, the more hardcore they will be, shutting out newbs and relegating them to the lower reaches of the universe, and thus more people won't play. i will be suprised if we see 1400 planets this round. We started last round with 1600.
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Uhm, the alliance limit has been 70 for three rounds now, and the amount of players have still gone down. Quite hilarious to blame the alliance limits for that.
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There's not enough people left to support old, bulky alliances and that style of play.
Look at the alliance rankings, and how many have 60-70 members. Subtract fly-by-night planets and BG's from that, and figure how many are "core" type people that play for the same alliance round after round. I think you'll find the actual memberbase is closer to 50 than 70, and probably more like 40. The days of "big" alliances are gone. The universe (playerbase) is simply too small to support it, and this transitional period between big and small (average) alliances leads to stagnated gameplay. Having 20 40-man alliances has the potential for more interesting rounds--politically and militarily--than 11 70-man alliances...or whatever that difference equates to. Anyways, back to stats... I'm really not impressed in the trend of increasing xan initiatives, while also lowering initiatives of other races' ships to equal--or in the case of most of the Terran ships and Zik kill ships--or lower initiaves than Xans. Their FR fleet seems to be improving, comparatively speaking, but the backbone and foundation has always beein their Fi or Fi/Co fleet...which is becoming more and more obsolete with each increase in their initiative each round. |
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:crymeariver: my poor xans :(
etd and ter having lower init attacking co/de than xan fi are u shitting me |
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Indeed Cochese. I advocated 50 members but the reducement was sadly down to only 60.
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perhaps I am just not seeing it but I on my first look I dont see anything that helps prevent cathaar being the constantly bashed race... anyone care to enlighten me?
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yea they have low inits and emp, job done for cath
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50 members or 40 members or anything doesn't change shit, the amount of willing officers/hc's are still going to remain the same, what exactly will the people who will cut out from the original 70 do exactly? just be out of tag members like ct have had and so on. the people who will be cut out won't be the active ones; so hardly going to be ones likely to set up new alliances. stop looking out for your own alliances in terms of improving your own chance to challenge for #1, cutting down membersize doesn't actually help.
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tbh they look very similar to last round, the only difference I have found so far is more guns for BW and scorp, cant see this discouraging attacks. might I pose the proposition that if cath is to be unbalanced as it apparently always is is it not better to have them too strong as it wont hurt anyone else :p |
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After a first look, in general I like the changes. I support lowering the alliance limit, because it helps prevent domination by 1 single alliance.
I also like the stat changes in general. The Terran changes are in line with my own ideas. The Cathaar changes might be a bit overdone. Probably a Cathaar will win next round. I don't think they will be powerfull enough to dominate the top 100 though. The change to the Xan is minimal, but effective. One change (the Phantoms init reduced and at the same the Harpies init improved) can make a radical difference, but Xan still seem strong. The Zik change is similar to that of the Xan. Removal of the Cutter's 3rd target again can have a major effect. I don't think it will be enough to stop Zik from being one of the best races though. I don't think the change to Etd will make much of a difference. The improvements to the Voyager, Vendor, Dealer and Broker are quite significant, but I don't think it will be enough to make this a popular race. I do intend to try them out myself so I'm not realy a neutral here. I would have tried them even without a change to the stats: it's the only race I never tried. And this might be my last chance. |
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I would keep the alliances but would take out their eta bonus. The -1eta def I would give it to each race defending their own kind and to clusters.
- Alliances would be more about attacking than defending - Defense would shift to cluster/gals/races (an advantage for Cath probably)... As for stats, it's really something I learned not to care about. In earlier rounds I would push to have better stats for my beloved Xans, but now I just look at the final stats and pick whatever race I feel will fare best. Obvious change for Ziks (I picked in r24) is: - they can attack fellow ziks with DE as the cutter has lost his anti DE capacity and the only anti DE left is the Thief, being fired first at by the Clipper. - stealing Pegs is even better now that both Xan FIs are init 6, stealing Voyager is another option to be protected vs Xan FI. Meaning building Corsair seems better than Cutlass coz stealing CO offers a better protection than stealing Xan FIs. |
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Kargool: The biggest decrease in players happened when PA started charging. The second biggest decrease in players was when they limited alliances to 100. The first round they did that, we had barely 4k planets iirc. that was, close to 10 rounds ago. It keeps going down, and will continue to go down, and 1 big reason is that alliance limit. Sure, P2P and stats play a part in people not returning, but so does alliance size, and to discount that is absurd.
There will now be people who will have to decide if they want to pay for a round where they can't be in the alliance they want to be. 4-5 alliances this round had more than 60 players in it. Do you think those extras will be happy getting relegated to either being out of tag, or worse, being forced to join a sub-par alliance? I mean, what makes this more silly is, they cut down the alliance limit, and than they'll close anyone caught outside that limit helping the alliance. So if you don't make the cut, you don't even get the option of being a random who helps them, you HAVE to go to another alliance, or just go solo. So many restrictions on a simple game, most of them completely illogical. |
Re: r25 Stats: Your Thoughts
For those too lazy to read:
-Xan-fi now has to cope with Voyagers shooting first, and Harpies same init -Cath got a bit more efficiency -Etd Co/Cr got improved, Voyager shoots before Phantom, Broker shoots before Drake/Spectre A little sum up of the changs: Harpy 25% more Damage, Init down to 6 Syren 10% more Damage Spider 20 % more Armor ~20% more eff Viper 10% more Armor 20% -> Wyv, 40% -> Drag more eff BW 10% less Armor ~10% more eff Scorp ~10-20% more eff Phantom Init 6 Wraith no more T2 FR Cutter no more T3 DE Voyager massive 15% Armor 20% Damage improvement Vendor ~10% more eff Dealer 15% Damage improvement T2 FI Broker Init down to 6 Ranger 5% -> Wyv, 30% -> Drag more eff Terran didnt change much, except a bit better Harpies, which shouldnt have a big impact. Dragons now get freezed more effectivly, but that only adjusts the percentages stunned when attacking with a mix of ships. Cath gained slightly more power, Spider, Viper, BW, Scorp got improved - will boost them a bit. Xan lost their Init 5 Phantoms, they now shoot after Voyager(!) Peg and Nightmare, and same init as Harpie - this will give much more Options to defend against these, but FI shouldnt be underestimated. I didnt play Xan, and didnt see lots of Incs on Xans, but i doubt that the Wraith T2 change will weaken Xan. (correct me if im wrong and you all loved the Wraith). Zik lost their T3 DE Cutters, but as a Zik i can say i do not care at all. Etd had the most changes. The Voyager is now able to stop FI fleets with ease, the Vendor getting more Power. A Generally improved CO-Fleet, able to do some nice roiding work. Broker Init from 8 down to 6 also enables some nice attacks as it shoots before Drake and Spectre, which gives the Etd-CR fleet a nice boost combined with the slightly improved Ranger. I think the changes are well-done - will be an interesting round. |
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In general Terran ships emp resistance was reduced more than what they were made cheaper. Quote:
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If the stats are more balanced the deciding factor might be the universe composition.
Atm the ETD look a fun race to pick I think it is clear than Xans are no more the race with fast initiative. The terran FI having the same initiative as the Xan FI sounds like an heresy... (imagine a xan FI with as much armour as a terran ship), I wish good luck to Xans in their favourite chicken games... |
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Where are the stats? :(
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Oh, Zik got that useless Rogue again....
Why would a zik build a ship that can steal cr when you cant build your own? Or is it me just being not drunk enough to see its benefits??? |
Re: r25 Stats: Your Thoughts
Its not you :)
I think theyve managed to create most races pretty equally shit to an extent now, ofc some are still marginally worse than others. |
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planetarion.com/Round25.htm |
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You're wrong. When ziks can easily roid each other small ziks can roid big ziks. When ziks have a harder time roiding each other only big ziks can roid small ziks. Defence has no impact here.
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The stats seem to create a race dynamic depressingly similar to last round.
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Well etd certainly is a better option now, their co is quite nice. Xan is a fair bit weaker than last round, something which will hopen the game up more especially because their fake allydef hopefully wont be as big a hassle this round since more people will focus on fr instead of fi.
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The point with xans is that next round there "should" be more xans focusing on FR making less fi eta def available in the uni. Last round was rediculous that way. |
Re: r25 Stats: Your Thoughts
reducing the size of groups may be helpful to the few HC's left, as they don't have to manage a large number (though if you are saying that our HC/BC's are growing weaker as rounds go on, I'd like to see your proof of this) but shrinking the size hurts the people who least need to be hurt, the pe0ns. Maybe 1 HC now has a less stressful round managing a smaller flock, but 10 of his flock just got kicked to the curb, and it's not like 1 of them will just spring up and become an HC for a new alliance, they will either leave, or be forced into a lower alliance, where they will wither and die.
As an aside, making stats less complicated would greatly lessen the stress on the officers of an alliance, far more so than giveng them less people to manage. Going back to single targetting makes calcing attacks/defs so much easier that the BC's/DC's can do twice as much with half the effort. Uncomplicate the stats, and the stress is lessened, but thats another topic all together. |
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As for xan defence, why won't they just fake wraiths against you instead of phantoms? |
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Wraith isnt anti fi so it wont affect xans atleast. And id assume since its not in their roidfleet it wont be around in nearly the same numbers as phantoms were last round. You have some valid points though, guess well have to see how it turns out.
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I know way more ex-DC's than I know active DC's in PA right now. Quote:
The idea that we should hang onto large alliances so we can maximize our exploitation of the few remaining HC/Officers ignores the fact that the number of HC/Officers is shrinking partly because of how exploited they are by an inactive and unmotivated player base and partly because they are members of that inactive and unmotivated player base. Quote:
The problem with your reasoning here is that you are treating HC/Officers as a static group that will be the same size and do the same amount of work regardless of what alliances are like. This is not the case. When HC/Officer work is hard and thankless less people will do it. Likewise if you make HC/Officer work easier/more rewarding, more people will be willing to do it. Simplifying the stats would make the work easier, so would reducing the sizes of alliances. I think current and long history of battegroups and galaxy groups shows that plenty of people are happy to do the easier/more rewarding work of organizing a smaller closer group who aren't willing to take on the burden and responsibility of 50-70 people. |
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Perhaps its because at the galaxy level there is much less work to be done so people are more willing to chip in as chipping in means doing much less work. Perhaps it is also because smaller groups of people have a closer camaraderie and find doing work more fufilling. Either way it completely supports my contention that more people volunteer in smaller groups so there is no reason to think people wont step up in smaller alliances just because they don't step up in 70 person alliances. Nothing would make me happier than taking alliances out of the code. The environment you describe where it is just planets and galaxies in clusters is exactly the environment where alliances naturally formed and thrived in the first place. PA should never have gotten into the alliance business. Our discussion has gotten very off topic so we really should wrap it up. I do not know for sure if lower limits would create more alliances. I think it would but you might be right and you might not. What I do know for sure is that very few groups in PA right now are anywhere near 70 and reducing the alliance limit at least holds out the possibility of more competition and smaller more manageable groups leading to better organization. The status quo has only brought decline. |
Re: r25 Stats: Your Thoughts
Back on stats now.
Ok, I admittedly know sweet **** all about playing Zik. I've never tried them until a couple days ago with the r23 stats in speedgame. Now, I'm trying them in the beta and quite like them...other than the fact their ability to steal Fi/Co seems...well, non-existant. Unless you have a ****ton of Corsairs/Cutlasses or teamup with a Fr Cath--or if you're very lucky, steal some BW. Unless I'm just not getting it, I don't see the point in having a Co-roiding fleet if you can't effectively steal different Co and/or Fi. Again, this is new to me--I'm usually worried about killing ships, not trying to steal them. The Cutter is good enough for that purpose. Their De fleet, coupled with Theives, rocks though. De-Terrans stand no chance whatsoever, especially once you start capping Pegs with which to dispatch their Harpies, thus saving more Theives from being shot at. *Edit* I've capped some Dealers, and that has filled in the gap a little better for stealing Fi/Co. Still, it sucks to have to rely on a third-party ship, especially one that isn't very populous. |
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and if you have xan pods, in theory you can with corsairs attack ziks, with stolen banshees even more. that is if co is your main attack fleet ofc... if not, cutters are a def ship, rest is useless |
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Ziks usually have the trade off of either stealing nicely or capping roids. Of course it can happen that you accomplish both at the same time, but whenever I played zik I usually went for steal ships as defense mainly, and only used them on attack if it was newbie farming or fleet catches.
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strange that its always the same dudes that are lucky round after round :p but yeah you need skill to be that lucky hehe |
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still leading even a small 30 man alliance takes alot of time and dedication, not many ppl are up for that :) |
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Well it all depends on how complex the environment the alliance is in. If its napped to a bunch of alliances and has numerous pnaps, following up on friendly planets, getting players to pull and sorting out the mess that comes with such debacles ofc is timeconsuming.
On the other hand I wouldnt think running a midlevel stable alliance without much say politically and with the 'usual means of communication(i.e irc\webbie\bot) all set up shouldnt be TOO timeconsuming. |
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