[Football] West Ham / Tevez
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...em/6652931.stm
^ Tevez legal bid http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...td/6652335.stm ^ pissed off Sheff utd boss http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...em/6657697.stm ^ fifa getting involved Those links are for a quick reference... Just wondering what everyones' thoughts and opinions are on this... Just recently FIFA have stated that they will launch a probe into this whole mess, Sheff Utd boss Neil Warnock is going around gathering support (7 of 20 clubs so far) for a points deduction, and the English FA claim that any appeal will fail because the 20 Premiership sides all signed the agreement at the start ofthe season. Seems like a bit of a farce to me. Personally I want to see West Ham relegated to the Championship - not only because I support Arsenal (and they didn't deserve to beat us), but because they need to be consistent with previous cases (Leeds, Middlesbrough, AFC Wimbledon, etc...). People may claim that their form near the end of the season justifies they stay up - but Man Utd and Liverpool both had other things on their mind, the Arsenal game was absolutely ridiculous and if they hadn't had Tevez playing who knows if they would have beaten Wigan... The £5.5m fine they handed West Ham was quite a lot considering clubs like them generally don't have that much laying around - but considering the cash the Premiership dishes out in prize money and tv royalties it's negligable... I feel as though West Ham should have been given a points deduction, perhaps along the same lines as past teams who had fielded ineligable players. Now many people can argue there was no official rule saying that points had to be docked but it does seem unfair that AFC Wimbledon for example had pretty much the same thing happen (fielding ineligable players) and were deducted 18pts (which they disputed and had reduced to 3pt - still keeping them out of a promotion place, so obviously destroying their season)... Then there was Boro a few years back who got deducted 3pts I think for their ineligable players So... personally I want to see the resulting inquest come up with a West Ham points deduction, their relegation, and Sheefield United's place in the Premiership re-instated. |
Re: [Football] West Ham / Tevez
An official set of rules governing the type of penalities to be given out for various types of offences is the only rational solution to this sort of thing; its silly to have bodies pretty much making up punishments as they go along because its almost guaranteed to lead to accusations of favouritism. Liverpool should also have been hammered for match-fixing but thats another story - a 10 point deduction to knock them out of the European places would probably be fair because what theyve done is pretty despicable.
Having said that, when youve been relegated by getting beat at home by your nearest candidate on the last day of the season, theres only so much you can complain about. |
Re: [Football] West Ham / Tevez
Boro got deducted for not fielding a team in a particular game when they had a lot of players out. Given that they all signed an agreement at the start of the season it's difficult to see their legal recourse. Plus the fact neil warnock is a bitter ****ing loser whose team played rubbish football all year and added nothing to the premiership makes me want to see them stay the hell out of top flight football.
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Re: [Football] West Ham / Tevez
I don't know about that but if FIFA were to see that they fielded players who were inelligable then surely they need to decide if the actions taken against West Ham have been sufficient or what kind of gains they made from breaking those rules.
Irregardless of whether Sheff Utd played good football for any part of the season I'm in favour of their cause saying that: 1) West Ham fielded inelligble players 2) West Ham most likely got points from the above I think it makes sense that if they've broken the rules and have saved themselves from relegation as a result, that Sheffield United have a decent claim - rules are there as guidance, and they are never absolute. They have every right to dispute it, and if they have enough support and evidence something might come of this. Besides... Sheff Utd beat West Ham 3-0 at home, and lost 1-0 away. If you want to use the playoffs as an indicator who probably deserved to go down, use that as a good indicator. Some leagues use head-to-head scores rather than GD or GF (e.g. Serbia - obviously not a direct measure, so don't go comparing the SuperLeague to the Premiership lol) ... but on that basis you could claim that Sheff Utd shouldn't be in the position they are. (although I will concede that by that logic West Ham should end above Arsenal and Man Utd having pillaged 6points from both this year - I just used it as an example like the Play-Offs / any 2 legged match) |
Re: [Football] West Ham / Tevez
WEST HAM DID NOT FIELD INELIGIBLE PLAYERS.
West Ham fiddled the documentation on two signings, both of which had clauses they were worried about the FA agreeing with in the space of time available. The FA's finding was that they were in the wrong for fiddling the paperwork but given the other circumstances at the club this was not a points-docking offence. There was no precedent for the specific type of third-party agreement in place so the FA created one and said they'd void Tevez's registration if the agreement was not removed. West Ham satisfied this demand (nobody is entirely clear on what happened at this stage). There is no precedent from previous points-docking offences from the English FA and thus none from relevant case law for Sheffield United to use. If FIFA do take a look at it, however, there is obvious precedent from the SPL in the form of Hassan Kachloul - despite technically being illegally registered and deliberately so, this was due to a bureaucratic ...misunderstanding rather than his having not been able to legitimately sign at the time. |
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Not that there isn't a large amount of misinformation in this thread anyway. |
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Sounds like a bit of a sticky wicket, eh what?
Ooops. wrong sport. |
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What happened with the MK dons this season with their fielding of an 'ineligible' player?
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Furthermore, there is another example of favouritism by the board towards larger clubs: Quote:
A lot of people's arguments (not necessarily yours) boils down to the motivation that they enjoy watching Carlos Tevez and will do anything to justify his presence in the premier league. I enjoyed watching him too, but as a fan of a premiership club, this isn't just about entertainment, it's about having a properly run league, where my club gets a fair crack of the whip. This decision doesn't lend anything towards that and just further goes to show up the incompetence of the English footballing authorities. |
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The point of points deductions is that it stops cheating off the pitch that results in gaining an advantage on it. In an era where fines are largely meaningless to a lot of clubs you have to hurt teams on pitch performance by taking points off them because it's the only way to stop teams from cheating. If you want to give a grand defence about why we shouldn't have points deductions, go ahead. The logic of the decision West Ham decided to get players of exceptional quality by their standards which they couldn't get without them being subject to third party contracts and hid this fact so they got registered. Tevez couldn't even be registered properly after the tribunal without these contracts being cancelled, which suggests that had the FA known about them initially, registration would never have taken place. West Ham are thus guilty of fielding ineligible players. The decision simply focusses on West Ham's deceit and the fact that this MSI contract exists and stops there, yet at the same time insisted that for Tevez to be eligible play again, the MSI contract had to be cancelled. So the decision is quite simply, a fudge. On the one hand it dismisses player ineligibility, yet at the same time insists action is taken for the players to become eligible to play football. So they must have been ineligible previous to the decision being made. The context of the decision and the punishment that fits the crime I think it's widely accepted that there is a history in the football league and football in England/Britain in general that fielding ineligible players leads to points deduction. As i have shown above the player was clearly ineligible,so this punishment should apply. And the crime be it in the lower leagues by AFC Wimbledon or in the premier with West Ham it is no different, if anything the lower league team should be given more leeway as they are not even a professional setup. The decision by the panel clearly refers to West Ham's relegation being an issue and that any points deduction which would cause relegation be excessively harsh on the club and their fans. To display such sentiments is plain favouritism in my view. Middlesborough were relegated due to a points deduction not so many years ago and teams like Bury have lost out on lucrative cup ties which for them really are life or death. Previous cases have shown that where you are in terms of success for your club is largely irrelevant, yet apparently West Ham have been allowed to get away with this. From this, it's easy to conclude that were West Ham out of a position of controversy, they would have been deducted points because the board would have had no issue with them being relegated as their status would have been certain either way. Quote:
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Wembley - in every aspect Anything to do with Sven Goran Eriksson from the day they decided to give him a contract extension Steve McLaren The lack of a decent academy system in this country Charging WBA and Derby fans £70 for tickets behind the goal at the play off final, disgusting. I'm sure there are plenty more reasons that people can name but I felt this was a good start. They are incompetent in every way in my opinion. |
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That goes some way towards supporting the "large clubs bias" and "incompetence" charges. |
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With regards to the 'harsh on the fans' thing: This was an odd and hugely flawed inclusion in the list of seven reasons, but other entries such as 'the rules weren't clear' and 'the culprits aren't there' are rather more sound and rather more important so I can understand why nobody is spending much time talking about them. Oh and if you are trying to say BBC Sport avoid sensationalism and never offer speculation as fact then christ knows what you're reading. Did you know Scott Brown definitely moved to Rangers on the 11th of January? I can imagine Keith Lamb was upset, seeing how Boro definitely tabled a £5.5 million bid a few days ago. I can imagine his assertion - after Brown's agent confirmed the £4.4m signing for Celtic a few hours after the BBC announced Lamb's definite bid - that Southgate was merely looking at signing the player was born out of a desire to save face. |
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If you're in doubt, refer it to the premier league. If you act like ****s, hide it because you are afraid you might have broken the rules and then get nailed as a result, tough shit. That's West Ham's fault and no one elses, not even the Premier League's. The whole decision goes back on itself. It's a complete fudge. Your argument is rubbish because it's in line with the way the decision was made. |
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But at the end of the day, will football in the Premiership be of a higher quality?
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This season has been a terrible premiership anyway. A team without a goal scorer finished 9th as defences don't count on this forum. In the grand scheme of things we're pretty rubbish yet finished top half. |
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Can things possibly get any worse? :crymeariver: |
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