Blackmail ?
 

It has come to my attention that there is a galaxy out there in the universe that - if it gets incomming from an alliance (single planet or full galaxy attack) - and discovers that the said alliance has a member in its galaxy puts the member of the galaxy into coventry so to speak.

it refuses to report the hostile incomming to that members defence on incomming report requirements.


do we as alliances condone this - as it is tantamount to blackmailing us into giving a galaxy nap ?


opinions pls ... no flames .. just opionions

my opinion ...
no ... we will not give into this blackmail .. no 2nd thoughts .. no what ifs ...

feel free to diasgree with me .. but i concider this unaccetable behaviour, against the ethos i play the game with, your choice of alliance is your own, you respect it and as a galaxy live with it.
if this was allowed to continue .. then you could not have friends in other galaxies or other alliances, its simply not acceptable imo .

Re: Blackmail ?
 

I doubt any of the big alliances would stand for that tbh...nor should any

Re: Blackmail ?
 

I really cant understand what you mean. Are you saying that theres a galaxy which when it gets incomming, it will only report incomming for people in their alliance and not others? If not plz say what you mean

Re: Blackmail ?
 

ok scenario -

your alliance (single planet or alliance attack ) attacks this galaxy-
the galaxy discovers it is your alliance-
it then puts out an order to not send defence reports for you.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

in such a situation i would either go about organising a coup and get the GC removed if they are behind it - Or request my alliance bashes the planet(s) responsible into dust.
Its blatantly wrong, their actions.
name and shame them if you know which galaxy has done this Mistwraith
(edit : not on these forums though - as reminded by lokken below)

Re: Blackmail ?
 

yepp i agree with phil here :)

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I dont like galaxies at all. So no, I dont like this kind of behaviour. If you could PM me on IRC Mistwraith I would love to discuss it further with you.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Simple solution.

Level the galaxy, hand out the gal status then exile out if they won't report your incoming.

Not rocket science.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Don't report their incoming in turn !

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Take out the galaxy or do nothing at all. Certainly don't leave your member to die.


Personally I'd kill the galaxy.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Galaxy is a more important cell in PA then Allience, in my oppinion. Eventho only thing when alilence goes before galaxy is when gal member gets incoming from your allience due to alliance wars. Other then that, galaxy come first. Without war, your allience should never hit your galaxy, and if a member does, kindly ask him to recall...

Not reporting someone's incoming is just poor show =/

Re: Blackmail ?
 

It's a legal tactic, although a shit one.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

So your all trying to say thats its perfectly fine for your allainces to hit a galaxy, often using intel from their members in the galaxy yet its not alright for the members of that galaxy to give a member the cold shoulder for it.

Isnt that just a little bit hypocritical of you all. Most Command teams in PA alliances are no better than the galaxy in question as they are pretty much doing the same thing. The galaxy is the last line of defence for your members and by attacking them you hamper this significantly. So while the galaxies actions are removing the first line of defence, your removing the last line of defence both of which are just as bad as each other

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Question is what allys would do gal raids on their own gals?

Re: Blackmail ?
 

No wakey, it isnt acceptable for a GC or minister to, in their arrogance order the rest of the galaxy to never report a persons incoming.

How dare they hold a person or alliance to ransom? what gives them the right to?
If they dont like a certain person - or dont want their alliance in their galaxy then they can exile them. Theres no reason to blackmail them or their alliance into leaving the gal alone "otherwise their attackers wont be reported"

If an alliance hits a galaxy its because they are
1) A good target and would be hit regardless of if they had a member in there or not to provide intel
2) they are at war with them or members in there.
Yes, they could be dishing out the gal status - but then they could also not be doing so.

Alliances i have noticed tend to avoid hitting galaxies with their members in purely because it does hamper the last line of defence for people - not to mention makes things tricky for the person in question but there are a finite number of targets and no GC should be arrogant enough to presume invulnerability - then punish the alliance by-proxy when they inevitably get hit.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

I know this policy intimately.
To explain further, if an alliance with a member in it hits us, then that is the same as having a spy. This spy can report any and all GAL channel information, paste forum info pertaining to defense and report any recalled ships.

This Galaxy has put a rule that says if your alliance attacks us, either as an alliance attack or, as in this particular case, a solo attack hitting a planet to get ships, then the alliance member of this attacker or attackers will be shunned and no further def nor any inc reporting will be done.

I agree with this since an alliance normally has 1 tick to react to a inc def call, a well organized GALAXY has anywhere from 2-5 ticks.

If we as a Galaxy permit known alliances of our GAL member s to rape and pillage our members, then we are no better than them.

I can understand if an alliance is at war, but this is not the case.

I for one do not want mu GALAXY to weaken at the expense or 1 solo attacker of MY allaince and risk attracting the attention of any alliance or Galaxy that wishes to attack us due to are weakened state.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Then Steven, i hope your galaxy gets a damn good kicking.
Galaxies have no right to blackmail members of their galaxy, or their alliances by proxy into not hitting them.
If you are a good target then you are going to get attacked sooner or later - do you refuse to report everyone in your gals incoming after everyones alliance has hit it?

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Just a quick reminder to all users:

The no coords rule is in force and thus if there is to be naming and shaming, you can't do it here.

Thanks,

Lok

Re: Blackmail ?
 

It is too far to resort to this type of blackmail... IF the gal m8 BCed the attack on the gal I might consider getting him massed raped and NOT report his inc. I would have to be in a bad mood to do this.

However I wont report incs of and/or def the 3 fleeters (the ones that dont def ingal) Why would I be under obligation to report incs to folk who dont earn their keep ingal?

Re: Blackmail ?
 

If they fakenicked etc properly then the galaxy wouldn't know which alliance they were from, so would always report defence.

Alternatively, exile.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Again I'll turn it around and say "How Dare the command of an alliance hold a person to ransom" when they attack theor galaxy and demand that they dont send defence to their galaxy mates..

A few rounds back I was in a galaxy with a couple of members of your current alliance. They attacked our galaxy and the members were forbidden to defend with the threat of being blacklisted or even removed from the alliance.

The round after I was in a galaxy with ND members, the same happened there. And last round it was Insom and this round its been Omen. And none of these were war situations.

In fact im sure if we asked everyone we would probally have a list of most of the alliances this game has seen being named for attacking a galaxy with members and ordering their members not to defend under threats of losing defence or being kicked out of the alliance even though its not a war situation so the targers arent really valid

No-one has the right to condem this galaxy or any other galaxy for using members of their galaxy as pawns to undermine an alliance while their alliance simerlarly undermines the galaxy by using their members as pawns.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

because defending against your alliance is a rather retarded and counter productive thing to do perhaps?
They arent forbidding them to defend against all attacks on their galaxy - just the one where they are attacking.
If a galaxy gets attacked and wants to punish the alliance for doing it then they can counter it instead of holding a galaxy member to ransom.

If the galaxy is a good enough target they will get hit REGARDLESS. Punishing the poor soul who happens to be part of that alliance is stupid. Furthermore, as i said above alliances tend to avoid hitting galaxies with their own members in for the reasons I again mentioned above and there are a finite number of targets available - so being hit is inevitable even if you had one member from every alliance in a galaxy. If it wasnt then everyone would do just that - have someone from every alliance in their galaxy and the game would become rather boring with no-one to attack.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Then why aren't you aware of the flaws in its operation?

What about:

• News scans / JGPs providing much of these details for free?
• Checking if that gal member actually does login at a time to cause damage?
• Faulty intel about which planets are in which alliance?
• The fact that the majority of players have absolutely no control over where and when their alliances hits, nor over which gals are napped. The only logical followup to this would be for that player to leave their alliance. Do you honestly expect them to leave their mates and risk 72 ticks of uncovered incs just to get theirs reported for the rest of the round?
• The fact that your galaxy is severely weakened should several alliances with players ingal attack?
• Applying this policy to yourself? If someone else sees your alliance attacking, do you simply deny it was them?

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Fakenicking only works for a certain amount of time, it is fairly easy to get a good idea of the uni by keeping track of defence and attacks of planets in alliance member galaxies for instance. Regarding galaxy politics, i've always been a fan of a good active galaxy, it makes the game more enjoyable as a whole, however a Galaxy member has no right to refuse reporting incoming, it basically makes the idea and theory of galaxies as pointless.

Not reporting incoming on a galaxy member when you are online is the cardinal sin for me in this game, it is foul play and i have a problem accepting any justification of such tactics. Alliance politics may change relations in the gal when there is conflict between galaxy members, but i believe there is a duty every member of a galaxy owes and that is at least to report incoming when/if you are online. I have run into this problem a few times in the past and it does make my blood boil.

The same goes for alliances as well in my opinion, Alliances are what in all, set decisions on there members, it is upto the galaxy member what to do regarding this, If an allinace at war they can rightly say do not defend in gal any members of a certain alliance or defend against your own alliance (common sense), but i would never agree to banning members not reporting incoming on those planets whether it be your own allinace or another alliance attacking them. It is foul play in my book and i have argued this with a couple of HC's in my time playing this game.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

What Steven Penning posted sounds like a cheap excuse for having a love affair with the fence around his gal.

if i was a member of your gal and u would refuse to report my incs, just because my ally did hit you, i would make sure the entire galaxy gets bashed back to their tick 72 level and then selfexile.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

i support that 'blackmail' which i'd rather call 'punishment'. What are you crying about ? A gal mate is helping (don't fool yourself plz) his ally attacking your gal, and you take no action against him ? Is that a UN simulation attempt ?
The no def call policy is the lowest step one should expect... it's quite soft imho.
mass roiding or exile would be next.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Several points to make. Some made above, some not. At this stage in the game alliances really shouldn't be raiding their own galaxies, although there will be reasonable exceptions to that. Regardless, there's about a 5% likelyhood that your galaxy mate has any control whatsoever over who his/her alliance targets. Although I'm sure it's happened sometime somewhere, I've yet to see a HC/BC target their own galaxy.

And then what about retal attackers? How can you expect your gal mate to tell his fellow alliance member that he can't attack the guy who is attacking him?! What a farce.

If you're worried about spies, then simply don't talk about what is covered or not on forums and in the channel. Do it in PM and even if it's fake def or none at all pretend it's covered (or you've built your way out of it) on forums. Random exiles are far more likely to be spy concerns than your longer standing members, and since these come and go all the time, you can't illiminate spy concerns completely. And as someone said above, most of the important info can be gathered externally through scans etc.

All you will end up doing is harming that member. You're unlikely to find any alliance HC that won't just laugh at your somewhat rediculous attempt at threat by proxy. If it were one of my members, I'd probably flatten the galaxy and advise him/her to tell you that he/she is leaking everything such that you have to pay for the exile.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

If it was me i would declare war on the gal.

Infact, what gal is it?

i ahve an inkling but it would be unfair to cast aspertions.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

I don't know how as an alliance HC (of an apparently serious alliance nowadays) you can possibly justify the notion that your members should actually defend against one another and potentially engage in combat against one another. It's utterly counter productive. Perhaps it's just that you can't actually control whether they do or not so you might as well not bother.

Why is alliance > galaxy? Because you can choose your alliance. Choosing your (whole) galaxy is impossible, and developing your galaxy is inevitably difficult. If there were private galaxies I could see some mileage in this whole notion (but then you would/should design your galaxy with an appropriate alliance mix to prevent such problems arising). Even with private galaxies, if you want to defend vs your alliance mates, then don't be surprised if you're kicked and roided if you choose an alliance that disallows this as a condition of membership (which is pretty much all).

It comes down to this:

- When you join your alliance you accept the alliance rules. Your acceptance of these rules is a condition of your membership so long as you shall be a member.

- If you join/exile into a galaxy you have rules forced upon you. You did not choose these rules, and indeed they may come into direct conflict with your alliance rules to which you have already committed.

You choose your alliance first and you choose their rules. Since you cannot know how your galaxy will operate, then whenever the rules of galaxy and alliance come into conflict, you must go with alliance. With random or semi-random rounds, alliances will always dominate, and galaxies must be flexible. This galaxy, for example, is taking the piss.

...and is likely to get a good smacking very soon.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

just a reminder that this galaxy is setting this rule for single planet attacks as well as galaxy attacks.


now i fully expect a galaxy attack .. for the galaxy to be quite rightly very annoyed (if war hasnt been declared) and i assume as we do .. most alliance dont actually attack galaxies with their own members in them unless circumstance become too agressive with several players in that galaxy.
or zik planets in that alliance go raiding inactives for ships .

Re: Blackmail ?
 

So if its a good galaxy to target we should all say "screw the galaxy", is that what your saying. The finite number of targets is also a piss poor excuse. F-Crew has and always will have a policy of granting every planet in a galaxy containing F-Crew members a planetary nap. Now we traditionally have more members than most other top10 alliances, we have our fair share of members in top20 galaxies and we activly try and spread members around so we rarely have more than 2 members per galaxy. Not once has this stopped us from always having a number of large galaxies, which will produce good score gains for members every single night. Now yes the shrinking number of galaxies makes this harder as does the fact that so many galaxies are sabataged by poor thought out buddypacks, hostility by the playerbase towards new players and Players jumping ship from galaxies to try and find a top10 galaxy but its still possible and would be even more possible if as a whole this community didnt keep going out of their way to screw galaxies over.


Now the way hes done it may not have been the most pr-savy method but its nice for once to see someone making a stand against the alliances erosion of the galaxy unit. He's saying "**** you exil, **** you 1up, **** you Omen et al. If you come and start interfering with galaxy politics this galaxy will fight back and interfere with alliance politics. Galaxies are the cornerstone of this game and can be and should be a force of good for the game and if an elitist group are instead going to abuse this and undermine the good it can do then this galaxy wont tolerate it and will take action". Perhaps if there were more people like him who took galaxies seriously and didnt just view them as a tool to help their alliance teh game would be in a better state than it is

Re: Blackmail ?
 

It's a lame and imo unacceptable tactic. Also - reasoning that it'd be bad for the galaxy to have alliances present in the gal hit them, and then arguing leaving players in your gal to die is the solution is stupid, to say the least.

Steven, I hope your galaxy gets bashed into oblivion. Perhaps that's the lesson required to let logic kick in.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Tbh the sending to coventry of the gal m8 is, in all honesty, the most dishonerable of tactics a galaxy can resort to. Most players in the game have no say over who their alliance is attaking and to hold them to blame is deplorable.

One flaw in this gals reasoning which everyone seems to have missed is 'what if the planet exiled in...after the attack was set up and opened for claiming?'

I think steven penning and co really need to look at their reasoning and tbh look at things with a new perspective...else they will find themselves very isolated and adrift when the incs start coming in en masse

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Depends on where your priorities lie doesn't it?

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Firstly I didn't say that members of the same alliance should defend against each other. The point I was trying to make though is that alliance force players to pick either their galaxy or alliance knowing full well that 99% of people will always choose the alliance as that's constant thing unlike a galaxy which is a round by round entity. The galaxy is supposed to be the cornerstone of the game, a place where its not really about who you know and where everyone has an equal chance and a place to make new friends and improve you game skills but this is constantly undermined by the alliances. People for example raise fakenicking as a problem in the game but fake nicking is only necessary because alliances will demand their members sell their galaxy mates out and while it may not stop your id being found out for long every little bit helps if your galaxy is going to hand this info over so their alliance can use it against you.

The game wasn't always like this, there used to be a sense of trust and honour in galaxies. These were the people you were assigned to play with and it was in your own and your alliances interest to make the galaxy work well and not screw each other over. And its not like theres really any need for it not to be like it was. Alliances and galaxies both have the same goal after all and thats to get as big and powerful as they can and they do this by ensuring their members are as big and powerful as possible. The most successful people in this game are generally the people with the best alliance and the galaxy that works best as a unit and that needs to be considered by everyone alot more than it is and alliances should be really pushing for alliance members to really make an effort to be an integral and trusted member of their galaxies

Re: Blackmail ?
 

have you noticed it's not private galaxies any more by the way?

Re: Blackmail ?
 

The person who refuses to report incs of those who have a single alliance member who attacks the gal at some point is screwing each other. The person who has no control over their alliance mate(s) attacking their gal is not screwing anyone over. And trust and honor came with private galaxies. It came to random galaxies over time, but since the rounds are much shorter than they used to be, developing these qualities within a random galaxy is much less realistic.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

I'm talking about the early rounds, it was private galaxies imho that killed alot of the community sprit that this game had and gave the alliances too much power, power which they are clutching onto in the more random rounds with their undermining of galaxies

Re: Blackmail ?
 

When? Other than in R1 alliances have always dominated and pushed galaxies around. Private galaxies came with respect in-galaxy but they were mostly formed upon 'working combinations' (I doubt there have been much Xanadu and Fury shared galaxies on purpose in the past).

Any decent alliance will avoid hitting gals with their members in unless the galaxy itself becomes too hostile. Like, in the current gal-form, it isn't possible to dictate who your galaxy members attack, it isn't possible to dictate where your alliance members attack either (if you're not HC).

Don't kid yourself wakey, there is nothing honourable in not reporting your galaxy members' incoming and trust only came with private galaxies.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Trust was vaguely there in r2/3 but only because they were effectively private galaxies anyways with all the account trading that was done.

He is through not defending them.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Redbull ?

You, people, actually REMEMBER this stuff from r1 to now ? what has it been ? 6 YEARS !!?
------------------------------------------------------


As to the topic: diversify your BP as much as possible taking on at least 1 person from major allience. That SHOULD result in at least 4 allience BP. And then get your randoms to jion smaller peskier alliences :D

Problem solved.

With that comes an issue of (ex) me, not being able to defend up to 4 planets in my galaxy due to allience wars :o

Re: Blackmail ?
 

I really don't see how you can say that the galaxy has no right to do it. A planet can self-exile if it wants to, the entire point of blackmail is that you can't escape from it.

In fact, this is a bloody good idea and its success will probably be proven by the galaxy's final rank. Too many alliances at the moment have too little backbone - they're leaving themselves open to alliances and galaxies walking all over them.


As a few people have said, just go and smash them for a few nights. If you can't - or won't - do that, then there's really no point in you moaning about how unfair it is.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

Just for a laugh...
If you are really concerned about the ally members in that gal.
One solution would be for the alliance member in that gal to be jpged every tick :p

then again the gal could name their gal "we dont report #7 inc"

Re: Blackmail ?
 

RaH did this for me in round 9.5. It worked, considering I didn't lose a roid from the moment it started to the end of the round.

I'm 100% with furball on this. Take action, or put up with it.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

fair dues each gal to their own... my only question to the gal is.

Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? who guards the guards when your ally attacks the gal.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

how do you sort prelaunches that show up then? :)

Re: Blackmail ?
 

I wanna know which gal so I can roid Steven Penning :-/

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Some folk can read into jpgs although it isnt foolproof.

unit and tech scan the attacker.

fi count is about 25k
frig count is a 3k
travel research is eta-4

for example if you see a 25k (at the moment) xan fleet at eta 8 and do a unit chances are it will be an fi fleet on prelaunch if it is eta 7 (On the basis of them having eta-4 researched) it would have went "red"

Re: Blackmail ?
 

I don't think Fury had any members in Redbull in Round 4, we certainly didn't after that. Bull was a top galaxy/BG, I remember always trying to find them and the other Xanadu command galaxies in protection so we could hit them in the first few nights :)

wakey clings onto a time that never really existed outside of Round 1 as some sort of golden era but I still think the huge alliance wars of Round 2 - Round 8 were what made Planetarion a great game to play not any poxy communities of people who I've not spoken to in 6 years from Round 1.

Re: Blackmail ?
 

I agree on this, round 5 excepted which was a bunch of arse from start to finish.

only round 12 has really come close since, in my opinion.