Alternate shipstats
Since paisley's set was the only set up for consideration, i felt it would be prudent to have a backup option. So while paisley finnished his set, i prepared a backed option for this or a future round. Can't hurt to have one :)
http://speedgame.planetarion.com/man...rn=82541934986 Currently i'm just looking for some feedback on this set |
Re: Alternate shipstats
Looks pretty good. Xan Fi, Zik Cr and Ter Bs look a bit too strong for my liking, and the De fleets (especially Etd) a bit weak. I figure the De/Cr/Bs fleets could be fixed in one fell swoop by making Etd De a bit stronger. As for Xan Fi, maybe a slight reduction in Phantom A/C?
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De fleets: De is indeed a little weaker because it's the only class that targets 4 ships = more forty. Ter De is ok i think. About Etd De you are right. I also felt it was somewhat weak. That's why the ranger got an amor boost. I can see about boosting the Etd armor a bit more. Don't wanna up the dmg anymore. Ter Bs: I'm mostly unhappy about the Shadow's performance. But don't see a way to fix that. Cat bs is somewhat weaker though because of the ranger prefiring the roach and de only being targetted as a t2 by the tarantula. that's why i left the ter bs values a little higher. maybe up the syren effs and etd cr effs a bit? Zik Cr: it does well vs de, but vs bs it has no chance. maybe up the bomber a bit to make de based def a bit better? |
Re: Alternate shipstats
I did run the calcs. Here's the outcomes, with fleets on the left hitting fleets on the right:
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v Roids > ? Ter De Ter Bs Cat Co Cat Bs Xan Fi Xan Fr Zik Fr Zik Cr Etd De Etd Cr Fi: I don't think Phoenix is the ship to improve, to be honest. With Ter already fairly strong, I'd be more inclined to improve other races' anti-Fi. I'm looking at Vindicator, and maybe Thief. De: The fortiness of De had crossed my mind at some point, but I'd forgotten it by the time I wrote my post. You're right, I think Ter De is fine, and Ranger is already pretty efficient, even against notorious anti-EMP fleets like Ter Bs. However, Co and Fr are in a good spot right now, neither too weak nor too strong. Improving Etd De by making it stronger against those Co and/or Fr doesn't solve the problem, just moves it. Not really sure what to do. Cr/Bs: Bomber doesn't exist, I assume you mean Spectre? Both Xan fleets build it, so there'll be quite a bit of it around. I think part of the problem with Ter Bs is mostly in its defensive strength, as they naturally tend towards building the forty De ships for defense. I figure the strength of Ter Bs is closely tied to the weakness of Cr. And since both those fleets use good init against De and bad init against Bs, teamups can't save Cr. This is perhaps the only place where I'd be inclined to change inits, allowing the Zik fleet to do well against Bs (using a good init kill ship, ensuring they don't steal into Bs) and Etd against De (using their EMP ship). |
Re: Alternate shipstats
Do you consider this set ofensive, defensive or something in the middle?
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Battle calcs i used to balance the loss ratio's (assuming planet get's some defence): http://speedgame.planetarion.com/bca...5pca7wogahxwtx Quote:
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I'll have to play with the steal effs a lil to ensure that it still does ok vs ter de, but shouldn't be an issue |
Re: Alternate shipstats
Tbh, im ok with any stats...
If paisley stats comes, im just going to have a nice troll round! |
Re: Alternate shipstats
im not going to slate these stats if the players want more of the same boring stats round in round out... have fun
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Re: Alternate shipstats
I'm fine with Paisley's stats.
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Re: Alternate shipstats
The feeling I get is the same from previous rounds. The best strat seems to go scanner. But I think alliance fleet is more responsible for that expectation than stats.
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Re: Alternate shipstats
These stats are middle-of-the-road (boring?) but balanced. Paisley's stats are interesting (weird?) but unbalanced.
Personally, I don't think the stats have much impact on whether a round is enjoyable or not. Given that, I prefer balance. |
Re: Alternate shipstats
I like the idea of playing Paisley's stats but I really never enjoyed defending.
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downside is that the change to the revenant forced me to redo fi/co ac/dc. fi seems to do alot of dmg now, but so do the anti fi ships. should even out, just looks messy Quote:
hope the changes improve the set. it feels a bit better balanced to me than before |
Re: Alternate shipstats
All but 2 of my calcs have the same land/recall outcome as before.
The first difference is that Zik Cr can no longer roid Ter De, but still can't roid Ter Bs. The calc vs Bs looks good if you assume Ter will pick Syren as anti-Bs, but Drake is actually the better ship. Both options are out-inited by both Bs fleets, anyway, but the Drake has the additional bonus of being really good against Zik Cr. That means Ter Bs is still only vulnerable to Cat, itself and Xan Fi. Another downside is that Xan now needs Siege before they get anti-Cr. I don't think the impact the change had not Zik Cr vs Ter De was bad, though. Ter De was one of the weaker fleets, and this has made them nicely balanced. What would happen if Syren was just way better against Bs? Like init 7, maybe even 6? It'd make Ter Bs immune to itself, while Ter De would have to stick with Drake. That in turn makes Ter Bs vulnerable to Zik Cr. It would also make Cat Bs even better against Ter Bs because they can fire at Syren with T1. The second difference is that Xan Fi can now roid Xan Fi. This is probably because of the change in Effs, because switching Revenant anti-Fi from T2 to T1 obviously can't make the calc worse for defenders. Beyond that, you're right, the new Fi effs look weirdly high, but all other calcs come out the same way as they did before. Overall, I don't think the change made Xan Fi weaker. Maybe raising the Banshee's Cost and ERes by 10% might do the trick? Or 5% on both Xan Fi? That might flip the calc for Xan Fr attacking Xan Fi from a recall to a land. |
Re: Alternate shipstats
Xan fi was always able to roid xan fi (assuming they don't build ghost which i personally would since it owns). but if they descide not to build the ghost, they atleast now have a fighting chance vs fi. Xan fi still can't roid xan fr. overall i think xan fi looks good, raising the cost might actually make it too weak.
The syren is a little weaker than i like atm yes. Maybe a small nerf upwards so more people will build it. the biggest advantage of the syren is that usually less anti cr ships are produced than anti de ships making it easier to defend with it. But not too much or ter bs will be weaker. Atm ter de outperforms ter bs already slightly in effs. Biggest advantages of the changes are the cr teamup is stronger & the overall eff balance looks better (which sadly isn't visible in your overview since it doesn't mention degree's of vulnerable) |
Re: Alternate shipstats
The beta is a terrible test of stats. Shitty people, fast ticks, it simply doesn't work.
I "played" for a while after this last reset. Xan vs Xan is messy as usual, but with only two planets (both Xan) its pretty hard to take anything away from the results. Whore Banshees and hang tough, or whore Ghosts and swap roids. Myself and one other Terran planet started at the reset. I sent three fleets, no combat, nothing. Add another Xan planent and the lone Cath. EMP % still wins despite the late start, but it has to. 1 vs 1 it seems ok. I burned my bonuses before tick start and went Corp. Considering the other Xan I had to deal with, I built ships based on their value rather than the Cath catching up. That player went FR, and I played through with building Banshee. Lots of them died, and we played roid-swap. It would have been good to have a Terran in the mix, but I think these stats are overall hugely offensive. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Proper alliances will likely fort Terran with some Cath support. Xan vs Terran roidswap round, unless I'm mistaken. Oh, and as the MOTD says, it isn't a speedgame. Thanks for taking notice of that kids. |
Re: Alternate shipstats
I'd test paisleys stat as they're highly offencive. To see how allyfleet does in a round with em
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* Ter De |
Re: Alternate shipstats
1 last change to this set:
Syren: Improved the ship. It's now a bit more efficient than the drake. Plus generally speaking the ratio of de/Cr firing ships is close to 2/1 than 1/1. So here the syren can gain an advantage aswell. |
Re: Alternate shipstats
Ok since the current round is comming to an end i descided to have a new look at the set. I ended up making the following changes:
Nerfed Xan Fi further Small nerf to Xan Fr Fix a small init mistake: Tycoon & spectre init +1 (Thanks for pointing it out sandvold) Spectre/tycoon were improved to compensate for the init changes Think the set is done now. Any last suggestions/comments on it? |
Re: Alternate shipstats
Raise xan fi E/r a little please, 190% eff is gross
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Re: Alternate shipstats
Please Nerf xan until they are completely unplayable. Thanks.
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Re: Alternate shipstats
Ran them through mzCalc:
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Roids: Ter De Ter Ba Cat Co Cat Ba Xan Fi Xan Fr Zik Fr Zik Cr Etd De Etd Cr (Implementation detail: vulnerability score = [actual attacker losses] / [the maximum the attacker may lose before mzCalc decides the attack is not launchable]. For example, 3.00 means the attacker loses 3 times more than is acceptable, while 0.00 means the attacker loses nothing. Scores for attackers against Cat are of course always 0.00, I haven't yet figured out a good way to quantify vulnerability to EMP.) Code:
Fleet Attack Defense Changes since the last set I ran are minimal. No vulnerable/immune switches, and only very minor differences in the vulnerability scores. |
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