Bashing.
 

Why don't we link roid cap to the average value of all attacking fleets included?

Average is lower than target's value = full cap (25%)
Average is higher than target's value = decrease in cap to a minimum of x%

Re: Bashing.
 

Bashing in the old sense of the word is no longer possible, not with a 40% bashlimit in place.

Re: Bashing.
 

40% isn't that high imo, though raising it isn't a solution either.

Giving it a second thought, this would also encourage hiding prod (Jintao/Xeophex-style), which isn't something I'd want encouraged tbh. :(

And sorry, meant to put this in suggestions ofc.

Re: Bashing.
 

i like the idea but i think it could encourage people to crash value for xp and score leaving them with a small value and roids but people would cap very little off them....

this could also make attacking less worth while which in a wargame no one wants

but im not saying it couldnt work but the forumula would have to be tested verywell and like the current bashlimit score must be included (eg if planet has high score but low value you still can max cap)

Re: Bashing.
 

That may seem like a good idea but it completly fails as it only serves the opposite of what it intends.

At the moment, to hit the top20(30?50?etc) planets.. you need massive teamups, now with that formula.. even if you managed to land your teamup onto a top planet it would get minimum cap.

So it needs to be the old way of Defending Planet Value vs Attacking Planet Value (each individual attacking planet).

Re: Bashing.
 

That's basicly what I'm proposing. :/

*points to the word "average"*

Re: Bashing.
 

oic, sounds nice.. encourages bringing lowbies along.

Re: Bashing.
 

Moron.
You were right originally Light: if a big teamup gets through, in the vast majority of cases there is zero def. So the defending value would only be the target (or zero, if only fleet value), which brings you right back to having cap low (or zero) for teamups.

Re: Bashing.
 

No, but its Average Planet Score of Defending Fleets vs Average Planet Score of Attacking Fleets. So big teamups are uneffected, so i was wrong.

i.e. 50 2million Score planets hit a 4million score planet.. The cap would still be max cap, as the average attacking score is 2mil vs the 4mil score planet.

Re: Bashing.
 

You didn't say average originally! :(

Surely that'd just encourage the escorting of smaller planets as the small planets would not only benefit from the escort but also lower the average for the bigger planets, increasing their caps. I don't see any pros to this!

Also, almost all target runs their fleet (newbie bashing or mass team up), so then the average defending fleet value is zero - zero cap?

Re: Bashing.
 

No, its not fleet values but Planet Score.

Re: Bashing.
 

Sorry, was looking at Patrikc's original post when I wrote that, my bad, your use of defending fleets mixed with planets confused me.

Re: Bashing.
 

I agree something has to be done. Old bashing (a big planet attacking a small planet) has been replaced by new bashing with heavy teamups vs a single planet. It's bashing all the same and while i conceed it can't be forbidden, it should at least not be rewarded. If capping can't be linked to fleet values, then let the team up max cap but don't give them XP for it.
ATM both capping and heavy XP only encourages massive (not to say outrageous) teamups. If it's the way the community in its majority likes it, fine. I'm sure the game would be much more enjoyable otherwise and I think there should be a poll (linked to PA overview) to see what people really want.

Re: Bashing.
 

Heavy teamups are sent because anything less than that doesn't roid the planets they're aimed against. I am completely against any measure intended to counter these teamups, because they only benefit the planets they're used against: top100 planets who can leech a buttload of defence.

Cooperation to take down big planets should always be rewarded.

Game design is not a democratic process.

Re: Bashing.
 

i agree that the suggestion will just protect the big planets, who leech defence and can´t be taken down by "normal" raids
to roid those you need big teamups and you also need to reward em with big xp, else there is hardly any reason for most to take em down

however to help small, less active ppl
i´d suggest (once again)
to connect the bashing limit to the gals value/score

if u sit in a shit gal you should only be able to be hit by other shit planets imo
while if your one of those "i came late to join the #1 gal and now keep all my value hidden sitting on 3k roids" you should be hittable by bigger guys.

Re: Bashing.
 

Do these small, less active people even need help? This is a serious question, I don't know the answer. I would like to hear the comments of some new players on this, if at all possible, because I don't believe we (as alliance players) can adequately gauge what is necessary here.

Re: Bashing.
 

dunno, its a good question
dont know how those "small" ppl feel about it themselves

however my suggestions covers 2 other issues
1) the nubraiding of "big" guys, while they could very well try with some serious targets
2) the hiding of late signups in topgals

however removing the production issue (stop making it possible to hide horrific amounts in prod.)
would solve one of those points, if not both of em

Re: Bashing.
 

and this method wouldnt counter these teamups.

It would be rewarded, if they are teaming up to take a big planet down.. then the average planet score of the teamup would be lower than the planet score of the defender.. Meaning the teamup would get max cap still.

Only teamups on smaller planets or solo hitting smaller planets would be affected.

Re: Bashing.
 

Read what I was replying to:

Re: Bashing.
 

Yeah sorry misread.

Re: Bashing.
 

What I'm trying to achieve here is encouraging cooperation between players to hit bigger targets. Or rather, to discourage people solo'ing on newer (and therefor most of the time, smaller) players.

Of course 'forcing' cooperation could also be seen as a negative thing when it comes to keeping newer players, though in a game like this cooperation is a must anyway, if you want to achieve anything.

:rolleyes:

Re: Bashing.
 

Soloing for quick roid growth is a valid tactic.
Bashing was eliminated when a 40% bash limit was introduced.

Re: Bashing.
 

no it wasnt, it just redefined what bashing was.
big planets picking on small planets is not a formulaic problem - it is a human one

Re: Bashing.
 

no-one wants to stop solo'ing and this doesnt do it. It just means if you solo someone smaller than you, you get a smaller cap.

Re: Bashing.
 

Big planets can't pick on small planets. They can pick on smaller planets than themselves, sure, but that's simply the nature of war.

Re: Bashing.
 

either limit the amount each factory can produce per tick (by value) or have it so that every tick over a certian time point, the amount in production depreciates.

i.e if ships are held in production for 12 hours or more then the amount held in production depreciates by 5% per tick..

this is just a very broad vague idea, if somebody wishes to expand on it then i am very open to suggestions :)

Re: Bashing.
 

Team ups are hitting small planets too, roids should be rewards enough, no need to add XP. Cooperation is a big word anyway to define teamups... waiting for someone to get a JGP + calc...
Why not having a formula including the rankings: free team up bashing on top100 planets, smaller to no xp on others (based on fleet values).
I suggested a poll just to see how other people feel about the current game of massive team ups, excuse me if I believe that Mzyxptlk opinion is not enough (it counts as one among others).

Re: Bashing.
 

Massive teamups are the only way to roid big planets, hey let's make them even less worthwhile to make taking big planets down EVEN HARDER than it already is!!
As for the more formulae with big teamups, there are enough hidden formulae for new players to struggle with anyway, Salvage depends on rank? wtf?

Re: Bashing.
 

This doesn't affect teamups on big planets at all. :/

Re: Bashing.
 

No, formulae is not a problem at all. The problem is how you present it to the players. If you explain it with "the smaller you are the more salvage you get" then everyone understands it.

Re: Bashing.
 

why so complicated mek ?

just remove the possibilities of adding a second factory type to an order and its fixed

Re: Bashing.
 

that is already coded in to the game, it has been there for quite a while, it's just not being used.
after an order has "progressed" it doesn't allow for adding of ships belonging to another factory type than already exist in the order.
so if we cancel fi/co in an order, you can't readd fi/co, just ships of the type that still are present.

Re: Bashing.
 

its very simple to sort all of this really.

SORT THE ****ING USELESS SALVAGE FORMULA!

GOD! atm its just to keep fleets in base, kill a bit of target, and gain on salvage even if u loose ALOT more. atm u are forced to do sick teamups, or its too easy to cover.

remove / sort salvage.

Re: Bashing.
 

That has nothing to do with either bashing or prod hiding Wishmaster.

Re: Bashing.
 

ok cool, that sounds awesome (and i really wonder why it hasnt been activated)

so will it be "activated" for the next round ?

cause appoco said
let me quote from CH:

<CH_Bot> (Q 60): <Kila> Do PA team intend to change the production hiding mechanism at all?
<Appocomaster> not at the moment
<Appocomaster> .nqp

and if not (though it is coded allready)
can i please have some detailed reasons why it won´t be done!?

cause tbh i dont see any point in it beeing useful to make the game more interesting for the average pa player, it just protects some ego-players from beeing roided by the big guys, while they can nubroid the poor

Re: Bashing.
 

it does. cause atm u need sick teamups to be worth it to land on someone.

= Bashing.

sort salvage again and u will see more normal teamups and solo planets attacking again.

what I think about prod hiding I ve said numerous times before

Re: Bashing.
 

Sorry man, imo the term 'bashing' only applies to planets who have no chance of stopping the attackers. For top planets this simply isn't true (evidenced by my land/pull ratio.

Re: Bashing.
 

so will it be "activated" for the next round ?

Re: Bashing.
 

don't know, there's advantages of having it and not.

Having alot of ships "hidden" in prod has a beneficial impact on both small and large planets, long as they know how to us it.
Ppl say large planets us it to get around the bash limit etc, hitting much smaller planets, which is true in quite a few cases. However smaller planets can use it to avoid ending up being hit by much larger planets as well. And those just a bit larger avoid attacking on their own cause of the ships in prod.

Looking at the size of the planets that hit us in 1:1, we get a good impression of "bashing"...
Repeatedly being hit by top rank planets barely able to hit us.
Those that care would probably notice i got a few ships in prod, and i'm pretty sure that has something to do with me suddenly getting less incs. The larger planets that were attacking us can no longer hit me, and smaller ones seems more interested in user their fleets other places, which is good for everyone.

So there are advantages to leaving it as now, and it does provide a tactical option most/all can use in some way.
Even if we were to use the coded option there is still at least one potential way to get alot of prod out really fast, which i'm sure ppl are aware of.
Simply put you have like 1 ship in prod, put max factories to the order, and let the factory cost get "built", which will allow you to produce alot of ships in a 1-2 ticks. How much naturally depends on your factory count.
But again, this is somewhat a tactic as well, it adds a bit of skill into things, having to plan ahead, having to be active to do this at the right time, attackers have to pay more attention to their targets.

Though i see why some find all this bad etc, i do see it these things as potential tactics and personally i rather like having options like this.
Playing poker with all cards on the table isn't all that fun, there are advantages to having some/all cards hidden.

Re: Bashing.
 

problem is that u need big teamups on planets which aint topplanets also.

I fully agree that there should be big teamups on the top planets, but atm this is also being used on normal medium sized planets. This wasnt the case only some rounds ago.

Re: Bashing.
 

Smaller planets can also end up amassing a ton of roids from hitting tiny planets, and hiding millions in prod. This means that a. They have an easier time hitting small planets than others with their score and b. Those who have the same "real" score can't do anything about being outgrown by these guys who have access to much easier roids. It's far easier to grow this way and rewards the selfish play.

Stockpiles add value, hidden prod doesn't.

Re: Bashing.
 

who´s scared by hidden production anyhow ?
it doesnt scare me at least, i just calc the worst case for meh fleet and add more ships to attack
however this may fail due to the target beeing too small for my teamup-mates

the planets in 1:1 are not compareable to the rest of the planets, ppl attack you guys thinking 1) they dont have alliances and 2) they are hardly active 3) they dont bother really 4) they wont counter me 5) they wont arrange anyone to counter me (i dont get anyhow, why 1:1 is attackable or planets there can do anything, game admins shouldnt have influence at all)

does EVERYONE know how to use it ? its a bit complicated to use it, there is nothing in the manual about it
it isnt a FAIR chance for everyone, only active ppl involved in alliances are used to it

again, does everyone know about this ? every small guy ? isnt this just helping the hardcore players ?

also what kila said, safed resources count towards value, hidden production doesnt

if you want all those sorts of tactics to be available for everyone, why not scratch factories at all and order ships and decide when you want em to come out while beeing able to extend it further or fasten it up, just like u need it
atm its only the actives using this strategy and hardly anyone in a shit gal, hoping to avoid incs with hidden production or trying to trap anyone with his production

Pete is talking about he wants the game for the masses, then do like he wants
this production issue, just helps the hardcores

PLEASE REMOVE IT

Re: Bashing.
 

pl@netia "sorted" this by adding the score the second u added the production order.
From an accountans pov it also makes sense to add the score when its in an ongoing project / order. Just like some is added in resources, then more is added when u realise the resources with a project -> then add the last 10% or so when its completed, as there is always a chance the order never goes through ( end of round anyway ) :p

Re: Bashing.
 

good suggestion
i can live with that

Re: Bashing.
 

Half of it.

Re: Bashing.
 

thought it was more, but ur probably correct. my bad.

Re: Bashing.
 

Maybe just add the score of the finished ships? Actually, it might be nice if it adds it to score instead of value.. So it's easy to see who is hiding production and if someone hides alot, you can see that they are simply from the galaxy screen.

I.E. If the order is 20% completed, you get 20% of the score from that order.

Re: Bashing.
 

In the old days ships regardless of number took such an amount of time to arrive

what was wrong with that system??

Re: Bashing.
 

nothing

Re: Bashing.
 

Yeah, the changes in the prod system really added very little to the game. It's an interesting quirk but that's about it.