The First Holocaust
The other day I was reading about the ill-remembered and oft-denied armenian genocide. This holocaust was responsible for the deaths of between 1.2 and 1.5 million Armenians from the period 1915-1917. Most famously this genocide is referred to in a quote attributed to Adolf Hitler "who after all speaks today of the armenians?" Tragically the turkish government largely still refuses to acknowledge the reality of the armenian genocide despite the masses of evidence available, instead choosing to pass them off as casualties of the first world war. Perhaps even more disgracefully both western governments and media outlets still put forward the facade that the truth, definitively acknowledged by the international association of genocide scholars as a genocide, is up for debate and the matter is unresolved. However all that aside while I was reading I came across this quite remarkable first-hand account of the armenian genocides from a woman named Astrid Aghanajanian who witnessed these events as a young girl. Prior to this her grandparents and her uncle had been shot by Turkish soldiers.
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I think I knew, but didn't remember. Thanks for reminding.
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turkey is denied membership until they admit it (that might seem a bit harsh. but it is true)
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My mother's name was Astrid. :(
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As far as i was aware there was a general movement recently towards (political) awknowledgement in Turkey of the horrors of the Armenian genocide (or something).
On an aside i wound someone up via txt and shared the messages via email with another co-worker. I was then asked by the person i wound up if i thought my actions (e-mailing the convo) were "sad" when the person i was winding up found out. I responded "Yeah, sad like the holocaust". Anyways i dont think that's Godwins cause i AUTOMATICALLY WIN ARGUMENTS WITH THAT STUPID BITCH! |
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point caller? |
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Blonde girl in work is called Astrid.
She's from "Bishopbriggs". I guess you need to be from this area to make a "proper decision" on the "facts" :( |
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BTW PIC LINK of "ur" maw SK plsta
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*cough* Japan *cough* |
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Pic link of Nan's maw too plsta!!!!!!!
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My state assemblyman is Armenian. His family escaped to Greece.
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My gran's second cousin or something* *a very famous "Glasgow son" |
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edit for anyone who cares: The guy is called Orhan Pamuk and he has been accused of 'public belittlement of tirkey' or something like that. |
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If we're defining holocaust as "really bad genocide" (rather than something unique which ocurred in the 30's and 40's in Central Europe) then I wouldn't say this was the first holocaust.
But yeah another pretty horrific example of people being shitty to each other on an epic scale. |
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wow i actually had no idea about any american genocide
damn the scottish schools system. |
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Well... I wonder what the world would be like if the holocausts didn't happen. Perhaps we would be over-populated?
[Soviets]There was no holocaust. Ever. You're all just capitalist dogs looking to degrade our motherland and superior society. Good day.[/Soviets] P.S. - Dah. |
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I thought the first line was a joke but then you made it really obvious that the next bit was and thereby implied that the first bit wasn't and are you ****ing serious? |
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Just ban the wanker, he's not even funny or amusing as most imbecile posters can be.
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yeah kura right
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Maybe this was a way for nature to de-populate. |
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Here's the award for most off topic and unresponsive post ever made. If you weren't a mod I would have them send you a warning PM and then a ban. |
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QazokRouge5 is on a path of intellectual self destruction... Indeed I think that he is too far down this path to return.
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6 million jews etc, but if you really want to make smart and witty comments, talk about the 41 million casualties in total, the 20 million died in russia because of stalin (not the war), the chinese mao killed, the victims of world war one you my lad, are rather uninformed.... |
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And to Zhukov, the victims of Stalins regime range from little to few, exact numbers will probably never found, because of the thourough rewriting of history, which was a big hobby of a lot of Stalinists at the time. However, the quote 'One man's death is a tragedy, a million is just statistics' says enough about Stalin |
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goodness knows what the two norwegians thought you had typed. I do hate people being lazy and misreading posts, whether they are my own or someone elses. Theamion your post was clear. They ought not to have typed anything. |
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**** off. |
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Firstly, common mistake so no harm/ no foul: Probably about 3-4 million people died in the death camps, the single largest death toll being betwen 1.8 and 2.5 million at auschwitz birkenau. There were only 6 death camps, while there were about 180 concentration camps located throughout Germany and occupied Europe, mostly Poland. When people refer to the holocaust, they tend to means deaths from murder/ work or privation from all sources, but the 6 death camps at best accounted for a third of all holocaust dead. At various concentration camps, people were worked to death, and deaths increased s the end of the war drew closer, but they paled in comparaison to the 6 death camps whose primary purpose was not labour, but simple extrmination. Dachau, which is often, and erroniously referred to as a death camp, was in fact a concentration camp and only (can you say 'only' in a case like this?) about 31,000 people died there. The concentration camps add a million or more deaths to the totals of the 6 death camps. The rest of the deaths were the result of a combination of elements, the main three being the Einsatzgruppen, mobile death vans and arbitrary killings by Whermacht and SS troops as a matter of course. The Einsatzgruppen are of course the worst, mobile killing squads that came in after the troops and exterminated millions by shooting. At Babi-Yar alone outside Kiev 100,000 jews, Soviet POWs and Gypsies were killed. The Einsatzgruppen are responsible for between 2-3 million deaths themselves. Then we can add a million Soveit POWs deliberatly killd by starvation in 1941 anbd early 1942, before the German labour shortage forced them to be kept alive for slave labour, and then about another million arbitrary killings by SS and Wehrmacht troops in the course of the war, generally following the infamous 'Commisar order' and 'military justice decree' of 1941 which allowed atrocities to take place in the regular army without punishment. Total victims of the Holocaust, about 10-11 million, of which 5.5-6 million were jews, and 2.5-3 million were Soviet POWs. The remainder, about 1.5 million, were political prisoners, enemies of the state (including communists) and anti-socials, mentally and physically handicapped (about 130,000 killed before the war by Euthenasia squads), and homosexuals and gypsies. It is worth adding that not that many homosexuals were killed, not because they were not avidly persecuted (they were) but because it is much easier to hide your sexuality. The Roma and Sinti Gypsies were also heavily targeted, but their small starting numbers mean probably about 200,000 slain at most. Notably, Serbian and Bosnian dead are genarally not counted in the total, because they were not victims of the German holocaust, instead being victims of the equally evil if poorly organised croatian Ustasa. Oh, and as an answer to the whole (hopefully joking) depopulation comment, its not that wrong. During WWII about 2.5% of humanity was killed, including deaths from all sources. |
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sorry qazok |
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To add to Vermillion:
The deathrate of Soviet POW's were over 50%. Roughly the same with Serbian POW's (who often were used/threathed in the same way as the Soviet POW's). Another reason for the large number of deaths in the Sovietunion, is that the german army took the food from the population, leaving the population in german controlled areas to starve to death, specially in the cities. |
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You'd turn them all into lesbians dude :(
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It's nice to know that GD completely misunderstood and missed my point. It makes me ponder about your comprehension abilities.
Moving along.... My point was not that I thought the world should be depopulated. I was attempting to stimulate thoughts and ideas as to what the world would be like today had those 20+ million people not been killed in that 30 year period of our time. Would there be over-population? Would there be no war in Iraq? Would the Jews that died have gone to Israel? Would the Germans have been so brutally punished for war crimes? etc. Use your brains for once people. Stop trying to turn every one of my posts into 'trolling' or some comparison to your mothers underpants. |
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What if jesus wasn't born? Maybe the roman empire would never have fallen and we'd now be entering into some sort of glorious golden age in the commonwealth of galaxies.
PS The phrasing of your question implied that overpopulation=bad thing, holocaust=less overpopulation, therefore holocaust=good thing! And it did. That's how language works. Next time use a disclaimer. |
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