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-   -   [football] match fixing results (https://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=191621)

roadrunner_0 14 Jul 2006 20:19
[football] match fixing results
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...pe/5164194.stm


ouch, loioks like juve are losing their first team then :/

Rids 14 Jul 2006 20:21
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
****

thats gotta sting

Cannon_Fodder 14 Jul 2006 20:41
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
Cannavaro to me, Buffon to you, Viera to me, Del Piero to you, Thuram to me, Ibrahimovic to you, Nedved to me, Trezeguet to you.

roadrunner_0 14 Jul 2006 21:07
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
yup, that sounds about right, they were talking earlier about trying to loan some of their players our rather than sell them, but i can see quite a few going for good :/

Phang 14 Jul 2006 21:18
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
two years won't keep anyone over 27 there.

roadrunner_0 14 Jul 2006 21:40
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
yeah, hadnt really thought about it like that, i was thinking about it more from a european championships point of view, so 2 years will get them back into serie A but how many of their players would get picked for national sides after 2 years of substandard opposition

gzambo 14 Jul 2006 21:45
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
younger players will prob go on loan olderplayers will prob look for transfer

milo 14 Jul 2006 22:22
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
mother****ing wops denying zidane his greatness, all you ****ers shouting 'forza italia' can go...****yourselfs


anyhoo this is actually less severe than it could have been (serie c for juventus was a possibility). I know **** all about serie b so i don't know if lazio and fiorentina can make up 7/12 pt defecits. They'll let go of the bigger names, particularly over 27ish as phang said, i can't see any foreigner staying loyal and playing their equivalant of stoke or QPR. The younger players will just be used to bounce up, they'd have been loaned to serie b clubs anyway so its not like they've lost out. I can't see that many european clubs bein interested in 1/2 yr loans of top players as you can't really do anything with them, you know they're temp and their minds will be on going back so id have thought the clubs would have to sell at least some players but we'll see


btw this is probably confusing to the american readers, 'what you mean they get demoted?, like what lose their franchise?' etc*






*que americans saying they aren't confused

MrL_JaKiri 14 Jul 2006 22:47
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
mother****ing wops denying zidane his greatness, all you ****ers shouting 'forza italia' can go...****yourselfs
Yeeeeeeeeeees,

Flavius 15 Jul 2006 00:22
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrL_JaKiri
Yeeeeeeeeeees,
my precioooooooouuuuuusssssssss

JonnyBGood 15 Jul 2006 00:43
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
anyhoo this is actually less severe than it could have been (serie c for juventus was a possibility).
Considering the 30 point deduction it basically is serie C in terms of how fast they can get promoted.

Achilles 15 Jul 2006 01:38
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
It's not beyond the realm of possibility that Juve could be relegated from Serie B next season. If the winners last season (Atalanta) had been docked 30 points they would have only been 5 points clear of the drop zone.

This is especially true when you consider they will have to come to terms with losing most of their first team, the time it may take their new first 11 to 'gel' and the myriad of other problems certain to pop up as a result of all of this.

milo 15 Jul 2006 01:39
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyBGood
Considering the 30 point deduction it basically is serie C in terms of how fast they can get promoted.

iirc they were after serie c + points deduction, which would have been far far more serious financially, they'll easily make it in two years and probably win something like the coppa italia along the way.

roadrunner_0 15 Jul 2006 14:26
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Achilles
It's not beyond the realm of possibility that Juve could be relegated from Serie B next season. If the winners last season (Atalanta) had been docked 30 points they would have only been 5 points clear of the drop zone.

This is especially true when you consider they will have to come to terms with losing most of their first team, the time it may take their new first 11 to 'gel' and the myriad of other problems certain to pop up as a result of all of this.

now THAT would be entertaining to see

Opi 15 Jul 2006 16:58
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by milo
iirc they were after serie c + points deduction, which would have been far far more serious financially, they'll easily make it in two years and probably win something like the coppa italia along the way.
I very much doubt they'll win anything in the next years. Even if they can afford to keep some good players, after playing for two seasons (if not more) in Serie B i suspect they will have a hard time getting back to the top of Serie A. Maybe it's time to start following Serie B football. :)

Dante Hicks 15 Jul 2006 17:09
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
I think people are overestimating the effect this will have on Juve. I suspect their reputation will keep enough players with them for a while, and it's not like their stadium / other infrastructure is going anywhere overnight.

Mathematically they could even go back up at the end of next season* (although I realise it's fairly unlikely). There may be some other restriction that I'm consdering through (I've not actually read anything about this).

* Last season Atlanta won 24, drew 9 and lost 9. If they had won 29, drew 9 and lost 4 then they'd have been in the play-offs even if they had had 30 pts deducted. Given that Chelsea won 29, drew 4 and lost 5 last season in the Premiership it doesn't seem impossible that Juventus could achieve this if the majority of their players were better than the average Serie B player.

Ste 15 Jul 2006 17:35
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
from a Juve website apparently:

Quote:
Q: What are the losses that Juve may suffer as a consequence of this scandal??

A: 1- Well, the image of the club has been much hurt, and many years will have to come until people all over the world start to forget...

2-the club risks being relegated to Serie B or even to third division Serie C.

3- Contracts with Mediaset and Sky, which has satellite broadcast rights, have clauses that allow the terms to be renegotiated if Juventus is relegated to a lower division

4- A 10 mln eur contract for next season''s mobile phone rights with Hutchison Whampoa Ltd unit 3 Italia could be cancelled if Juventus is relegated

5-Nike merchandising deal worth 14 mln eur a year could be cancelled if Juventus drops out of Serie A for two consecutive seasons, which would be the case if it was relegated as low as Serie C.

6- 20 mln eur a year shirt sponsorship deal could be withdrawn by oil company Tamoil.

7- investors, media companies, the players and fans could all have claims for compensation against Juventus, which may lead to the club to announce being broke up...

8- delays in building Juventus new stadium will mean the loss of 20-25 mln eur a year expected from a major sponsor

Snurx 15 Jul 2006 17:42
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
****ing shit. Does serie B get boadcasted on the net? As I doubt there is any television in Norway that sends it :(

milo 15 Jul 2006 18:05
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
juve is too big to go bankrupt, i know comparing clubs across nations is a little mongish but they're basically the manu of italy. They're massive with a big big fanbase. As long as the fans stay sweet and are willing to part with their money its all kosher.

JC 16 Jul 2006 12:19
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
How many prawn sandwich Man U fans would follow 'their' team in the Championship or lower for a couple of seasons?

Paisley 16 Jul 2006 15:48
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JC
How many prawn sandwich Man U fans would follow 'their' team in the Championship or lower for a couple of seasons?
Also known as gloryhunters and will be first to leave then they dont get the results.

Ste 16 Jul 2006 17:33
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
it's actually quite amusing the amount of supporters FC United have here in Manchester.

lokken 16 Jul 2006 18:29
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
Yeah, well price the locals out and alienate your hardcore fans, that's what you get.

Without a salary cap, football is ****ed.

Nondescript Human 17 Jul 2006 18:15
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
All three of these clubs will be back in Serie A within 2 seasons, I imagine. Fiorentina were relegated from Serie A straight to Serie C2/B a few years ago and qualified for the Champions League 3 or 4 years later (they were due to play in the CL next season, but now won't of course). As for Juve, obviously some players will leave but I'd still put them in the top 5 in Serie B next season, even with a 30 point penalty.

Phang 17 Jul 2006 18:45
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
different reasons though, NDH. fiorentina got pulled from midtable to serie C1 for going into administration. they won serie C1 and got boosted straight back to serie A. they lost about 3 players in administration, and when they got their shit sorted out they could sign more players again.

different for juve - they're looking at 2, maybe 3 seasons outside serie A, and their players are by and large too big to stay for that. the players will demand out, and without their glalacticos, as it were, it will be harder for juve to get back up. it's not about about losing the players or the money or the time so much as it is about losing escape velocity. I'd say at least 3/4 of the first team will be courting a move right now; they're all too old and too good to hang around for two seasons or more, and NDH there really is no way juve can stay in the top quarter of the table. It will be a relegation struggle rather than the playoffs for them.

Nondescript Human 17 Jul 2006 22:01
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phang
different reasons though, NDH. fiorentina got pulled from midtable to serie C1 for going into administration. they won serie C1 and got boosted straight back to serie A. they lost about 3 players in administration, and when they got their shit sorted out they could sign more players again.
That isn't really true at all; Fiorentina were relegated all the way to C2 and only skipped one league (C1) on the way back to Serie A. Every single senior player except one (Angelo Di Livio) left when they were relegated, yet they still earnt successive promotions from C2 and B on merit, and then avoided relegation from A in their first season back in the top flight and finished 4th in their second season back to qualify for the CL.

I expect that they managed this because their fan base, connections, facilities and reputation as a big club remained despite their situation, meaning they could attract better players than the clubs around them, even when the entire original team had left (which in any case is less likely to happen to the same extent to Juventus, who are a bigger club and only in Serie B, not Serie C2).

Obviously the current situation is not identical to what happened to Fiorentina, but imho even with 1/3 of their present team Juve would probably be back in Serie A within 2 years, and I'd be surprised if the other two clubs aren't as well. Still, as that list Ste posted shows, it's not like this isn't a major blow to them.

Phang 17 Jul 2006 22:16
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nondescript Human
That isn't really true at all; Fiorentina were relegated all the way to C2 and only skipped one league (C1) on the way back to Serie A. Every single senior player except one (Angelo Di Livio) left when they were relegated, yet they still earnt successive promotions from C2 and B on merit, and then avoided relegation from A in their first season back in the top flight and finished 4th in their second season back to qualify for the CL.

I expect that they managed this because their fan base, connections, facilities and reputation as a big club remained despite their situation, meaning they could attract better players than the clubs around them, even when the entire original team had left (which in any case is less likely to happen to the same extent to Juventus, who are a bigger club and only in Serie B, not Serie C2).

Obviously the current situation is not identical to what happened to Fiorentina, but imho even with 1/3 of their present team Juve would probably be back in Serie A within 2 years, and I'd be surprised if the other two clubs aren't as well. Still, as that list Ste posted shows, it's not like this isn't a major blow to them.
it appears i am completely wrong. oh. :(

Opi 17 Jul 2006 22:21
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nondescript Human
I expect that they managed this because their fan base, connections, facilities and reputation as a big club remained despite their situation, meaning they could attract better players than the clubs around them, even when the entire original team had left (which in any case is less likely to happen to the same extent to Juventus, who are a bigger club and only in Serie B, not Serie C2).
Well, that and some match fixing.

Deffeh 18 Jul 2006 18:12
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
All this "no player is leaving for less than market value" crap is pish. I pray to the heavens that the spanish and english clubs make some sort of truce to not get into bidding wars and give the italian swine more money than they deserve (ie face value) for the players.

Smaller clubs lose players for pennies all the ****ing time, and its a nightmare. Juve et al thinking they are above the food chain? lolz, very funny.

furball 26 Jul 2006 01:10
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
For ****'s sake. What was the point in any of this?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...pe/5215178.stm


The Italian clubs implicated in a match-fixing scandal have had their punishments slashed on appeal.

Lazio and Fiorentina have been reinstated to Serie A - but with points deductions increased from 12 to 19 for Fiorentina and seven to 11 for Lazio.

Juventus' hopes of overturning demotion to Serie B were dashed, but instead of starting on minus 30 points, they have only had 17 points taken away.

AC Milan stay in Serie A with their penalty cut from 15 points to eight.

Milan have also been allowed to play in the Champions League qualifying rounds this season - having originally been barred from Europe.


Now Italy's representatives in the Champions League will be Inter Milan, Roma, Chievo and AC Milan. The Uefa Cup teams will be Palermo, Livorno and Parma.

The big losers from the appeal decisions are Lecce and Treviso.

The bottom two clubs in Serie A last season, they were reinstated to Serie A along with 18th-placed Messina after the original verdict.




RETARDS.

milo 26 Jul 2006 01:43
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
they brought home the world cup the nation forgives etc :(

juve could make it back in one season, its not impossible, 42 games at three pts per win with 17 deducted means a maximum for them of 109.

The serie b table this season gone


Code:

  Teams Pts          P          W          D          L          F          A          W          D          L          F          A          W          D          L          F          A
Atalanta (p)        81        42        24        9        9        61        39        18        1        2        38        11        6        8        7        23        28
Catania (p)        78        42        22        12        8        67        42        13        7        1        39        16        9        5        7        28        26
Torino (po)        76        42        21        13        8        51        31        13        7        1        29        12        8        6        7        22        19
Mantova (po)        69        42        18        15        9        46        35        12        7        2        27        12        6        8        7        19        23
Modena (po)        67        42        17        16        9        59        41        12        8        1        32        13        5        8        8        27        28
Cesena (po)        66        42        18        12        12        66        54        12        5        4        33        23        6        7        8        33        31
the top two qualify with position 3-6 in the playoffs, a quality side like juve can easily make that. Lets say 66ish points to make the playoffs and 80ish to win.

roadrunner_0 26 Jul 2006 09:54
Re: [football] match fixing results
 
its a ****ing sham tbh, and FIFA wont do a damn thing about it as the italian FA have done something, no matter how crap its turned out to be


the fact that the chief prosecutor was still pushing for them to be relegated to serie C just makes it even worse


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