Imagine
 

that you have middle-easten or affiliated heritage, that you like most people in the world believe the invasions into iraq and afghanistan were western self interest, that you see pictures like these (click to go to the wired article for more). how would you feel towards countries that have implicitly or explicitly supported these wars and camps? if someone told you about a political movement that wishes to fight such, would you join?

Re: Imagine
 

I'd feel slightly stupid for clicking that link when at work.

Re: Imagine
 

Don't go, we need posters.

Also, the idea of the civil war against the Fascists in Spain in the 1930s crossed my mind.

There's an interesting comparision possibly, if someone wishes to make it.

not me though, I'm too lazy atm.

Re: Imagine
 

This isn't a leading thread at all. Nope, absolutely not. Not at all.

Re: Imagine
 

I'll make sure my points loop in future. I hear 606 is a good beat.

Re: Imagine
 

Torturing prisioners goes against most liberal notions of civil behaviour. Places with politically active and quite vocal people, in those bastions of human rights and civil liberties such as in Belgium, the Netherlands and Switzerland and whatnot would have been, i imagine, similarly outraged by such material.

However, i dont recall hearing any of them taking up arms and trying to perpetuate the problem.

Vengeance is where an atrocity is met with in kind, were all notions of right and wrong blur, and thus loose all meaning.

Re: Imagine
 

1. What was I looking at?

2. Where is the authentication of the photo, whatever it was of?

3. What's your point?

War is bad?

Torture is bad?

Silly photography is bad?

Is Bo(r)ing Bo(r)ing trying to tell me that the torture was done by GI's sitting on the floor holding prisoners in their laps while they punched them while wearing blue gloves?

Re: Imagine
 

Well I'm white and dont really care about what happens in other countries that are full of whiteys so I'd like to think that if I were some dumb religious brown butt I'd be equally apathetic about other brownies being bombed on the other side of the world even if we believed in the same god but idk.

its nice how you imply that all brown people ('of middle eastern heritage' - I assume you arent including Israelis in this?) should/do automatically care about their fellow race members above all else though. Kind of like how I wouldnt feel patronised at all if everyone I met in England immediately wondered what I thought about Scottish independence when they heard my accent. No racial stereotyping here, nope.

Re: Imagine
 

That's a fair point, Nodrog. I should have specified further. However, people affliate with those with similar cultures to their own. I wasn't claiming they should or should not, but what people (of any race and nationality) tend to do.

Re: Imagine
 

The difference is, that Western Europe isn't seen to be a collection of dictators and murderers being supported by a lone superpower for it's own political advantage. Such an event would be identified as an isolated incident, as opposed to a systematic attack on the area which has been raging for decades.

Add to this the more impoverished conditions in which the people live (for the most part) in the Middle East, as well as the assult on liberty which is going on in many countries in the world with the excuse of the 'war on terror' where those in your (religious) community are being labelled guilty before proven innocent and you might have a similar reaction.

Re: Imagine
 

You know.

You know.

You can mock and live in denial, but it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

Re: Imagine
 

Obviously if that is what you were brought up with then i am sure you would be willing to join anything that would support your beliefs , me being on the western side of this whole charade still see's it as wrong. if anybody wanted one person out of power in a country it is easily done -- invading a country and taking control shows that it has some form of Ulterior Motive, not wanting to point fingers but we all know who is responsible, but the pictures prove nothing apart from how idiotic and power mad people can be.

Re: Imagine
 

Replace that soldier with ur stock standard middle eastern extremist and he wouldnt be punching someone in the head, hed be cutting it off:rolleyes:

America may/not have invaded Iraq for oil.....

Iran and Syria provide arms to hezbollah to assist in racial genocide.....

Whats worse?

Re: Imagine
 

lets not try to justify their mistakes :P

Re: Imagine
 

There were never any Fascists in Spain :(

Re: Imagine
 

"They started it"? I didn't think we were still in grade school, but obviously I was mistaken.

Re: Imagine
 

Hello...?

Re: Imagine
 

This is really hard to say one way or the other. As an American I have grown up in America and have values similar to other Americans. As far as politics go most of us would rather leave it than take so as an American I would say "Why Bother" when this political movement came around asking for my support. After all I know the futility of fighting the big money war machine and nothing I do will make a difference in the long run. The rich will still get their way and wars will still be started because it's up to the poor to supply the labor needed to keep the weathly people with the money they need to continue.

Now if I had not grown up in America or Western Europe I might actually believe that I could make a difference and join such a political movement. I might even think this was a holy war to defend ourselves from American Imperialism. I might hold onto the belief that if we blow ourselves up enough and kill a few of them it will make a difference because they are not disposable like we are. They will be outraged with every attack and convince their government to stop.


Truth is that the people that control the USA do not care about the majority of people and feel that we are all disposable. I imagine their thoughts would be like: "So what if a few thousand soldiers lose their lives. So what if a few places get bombed and people die. No big loss because there are millions of people to replacement them. Let those stupid Jihadist do what ever they want because they will never muster enough strength to stop the US war machine. As long as the money keeps on flowing nothing else matters.

Re: Imagine
 

Re: Imagine
 

So true. The USA no longer wins wars. We just fight them as long as possible before the next politician decides it's time to cool off for a bit.

Re: Imagine
 

Because the president would rather stand firm to his beliefs, insane or not as opposed to showing the weakness of backing down from a fight. Because lets face it, in the end its all about re-election and/or political status

Re: Imagine
 

Fixed.