Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

Apparently most of us will sign up for what would appear to be 'another boring round of PA'.

But why do we sign up if the game is actually that terrible? Is it the fact our alliances will fail without us? is it that we like to do the same things over and over again and maybe get more lucky with an attack than our other players and win?

For a game we apparently all think is pretty rubbish i find it odd that we keep coming back to play it. If as it seems, no care in the world from our new owners, then why is it we continue to play. We all seem to be aware that there probably will be no changes to what in our owners mind must be the perfect formula. People have put this down before but i will do it again for the owners of PA its pretty much a no brainer 1.5k * £5 will easily pay for the cost of running the servers etc over the course of a round and probably make a tidy profit while they are there. What incentive do the owners of PA have to make large scale changes? I have read now about 4 threads all saying for the love of god make a big change but why should they? in their opinion the game works people will play it so why not just let it run its course?

I believe it is us the community that is keeping PA alive in fact i know this is the case. So what i put to you the Loyal Planetarion community is this. What would zPeti do if we all stopped playing? Many of us know the game has run its course so why do we keep coming back why do we just not let it go?

I realise there is potential for PA to be great still that is for sure with the changes that are being mentioned i do not doubt that pa could be the leading online mmo again but in its current format really it is only us that are keeping it going. Given the choice will our owners rather risk a huge change that backfires and causes whats left to leave? to tweak it each round and keep the revenue and profit coming in?

Its up to us the community to decide how long pa lasts. sorry to sound depressing but in all honesty i can not see the owners making a big change since they have relativity little to gain from it in fact i belive zpeti in one of his firsts posts mentioned he wanted to develop a new game and leave planetarion behind. If as we say there are clones out there that do other elements of teh game far better than pa does why are we not playing them? If we truly want some action taken by the owners maybe we will have to do something drastic? maybe even boycot a round of PA just to show them they can't take the community for granted?

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

I haven't paid in 4 rounds and I like the community. I don't see what I have to gain by leaving.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

I'm pretty sure that zpeti guy is long gone, like different company long gone. Like mz I don't pay and I like the community. I also don't really give a shit about a fiver either way and beyond that free accounts are fine these days. I said to pateam recently (actually I think I got someone else to say it for me) that they might as well start talking to us because, and let's be ****ing honest here, they're not going to sack the entire pateam and even if they did it'd give everyone a good point at which to just move on and see if the community can accomplish anything. I don't really see how much pateam are gaining by keeping planetarion on life-support every round.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

just don't pay.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

I would have agreed until now. But for me it has come to the point where if nothing significant is done I'll just go find another game to play... like Hyperiums.
I can't face the prospect of having r35 being a repeat of r33 or r34, the most boring rounds I ever played.
zpeti thought his brain would be enough to turn PA into a popular game... well the hard fact is you need a real business plan and the cash behind it to come up with the new PA we're all dreaming of. On the cheap the best you can do is run the game as it is, hoping someone will come forward to freely propose new stats, a new skin, a new idea easy to implement... just to keep the core vaguely interested.

I'm sure if the community decided as a whole to move to another game, we would all have more fun playing.

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Here is a post I made yesterday to pateam.

I have NOT disappeared but you must understand that it is hard for a small company to make major changes without risking the existing community. Please be a bit more patient, changes are coming.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

I would just like to say that we haven't had 1.5k paid planets for a while.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

And I would just like to say that there is no such thing as a "good PHP programmer".

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

PAX, anyone?

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

Yeah it would be nice to make £7500 per round.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

How about making a decent change every round? You realise one would follow the other, right?

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Making an independant facebook app is risking the existing PA community, as it means you're not working on this game that we're playing at the moment.

I just dont understand that reasoning, we're going to make PA better by developing a seperate game which wont appeal to most of you, as its got to be extremly casual to appeal to facebook users.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

Spinner Spinner Spinner Spinner

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

Potentially risking an existing community numbering a few hundred for a possible community of thousands is the only sensible option to take PA away from its current stagnant near-death position.

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Have you seen the type of games that are popular on facebook? As if PA has any chance to be successful on facebook in its current state.. you'd have to make a completly different game, which in turn, would only be PA in name and nothing else.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

No I haven't. I can imagine they are as pointless and stupid as the majority of facebook inhabitants. However, PA has gone nowhere for a long long time. I stopped playing in r10 I think, God knows how long ago that was. Changing the stats, bringing in new ships, finally introducing the passport system, changing alliance size limts etc etc etc, none of this is going to radically change the game, the size of the community and the potential profitablity and marketability of the game. I guess the question is whether the community/owners want a game for a very select few hardcore players that they deem to be perfect or a game that appeals to a much much wider base of people. The former would, in my opinion, result in an ever shrinking community (as is probably the case now). The latter may go nowhere as well.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

Hell no, I might actually play again if he comes back.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

Nahhhhhh, I think general concensus is the PA community would have the biggest single synchronized orgasm on the condition Spinner makes a PA replacement.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

Like Manager League? :p

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

Like Manager League... but without managers, leagues or football and instead planets and space ships.

I didn't think I was being cryptic the first time round tbh :s

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

I agree with everything that The Great JC` said. Time to move pa away from being a game that only internet-addicted super geeks play (or at least have a chance of doing well in), to a game that normal people can play.

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I can't believe noone's commented on the whole zoltan deal by now :(

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

why would you waste time and resources moving or developing a facebook based PA game. Think about it. Facebook is severely limited in its versatility, it has substandard communication systems and UI compared to PA's current format, and you would be entirely at the mercy of the facebook sites maintenance schedules. Further to that my experience of using facebook from decent internet mobiles suggests to me that a facebook app version of pa would be horrid. Coupled to that rumours of facebook moving to a subscription system plus also the confirmed removal of the notifications system which would remove a huge chunk of your automated 'word of mouth' advertisement system and im failing to see long term benefits other than the huge potential marketing base.

Yes the potential market is huge, but I question whether its the best use of the resources you have allocated to PA.

edit - I actually play a couple of games on facebook. Mafia Wars, Farmville etc. Would i pay to play a superior version of those games based on an enjoyable facebook app? No, i'd move on to the next free to use facebook app fad. So i fail to see the point of developing a facebook pa app. PA is or rather is meant to be a game not an app.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

There are no rumours... one guy made a facebook group then lots of gullible people joined it; Seems you're one of those people.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

Owned.

Have you seen the light?!

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

I have seen the Light. It wasn't pretty.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

for the record, theres already a pretty decent and fun PA type game on facebook with a decent payment model

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

What?? Where is this feature?

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I didn't join the group Light, but i am guilty of not researching the rumour. The rest of my post remains valid. (IMO)

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

The Facebook Idea is a case of Chicken and the Egg.... which to do first.

1) I believe the idea of the facebook app is to create an influx of players to join the main game.

2) However if the main game isnt at least updated with new ideas and polished alot then the influx will soon vanish back to facebook.

3) Limits on facebook will make the App version different from the main game.

4) However the main point would be the way it "ticks", you wont see many Facebook players sitting up at 2am ready to launch a fleet, then waiting 10 hours till the attack lands.

5) Mostly facebook people want instant action, but I dont see how that can work with the current PA design without straying to far from the main game .

6) If the APP is close to PA in design why would anyone play the main game?

7) I'm guessing that zPeti is keeping the ideas for the PA app close to his chest, so we dont rip it to shreds.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

We're pretty much thinking along the same lines MrLobster, I don't see how the two games can mutually benefit from each other. If the facebook app is a success, Peti won't need the main game, he'll jib the main game, focus on facebook and reap the rewards. As you have so consicely put if the facebook app does entice people to the main game, the main game in it's current state will soon see them quitting the main game (and no the community is not a great appeal of this game, the community by and large pretty much sucks).

Then again if resources are pumped into the main game, will it even need the facebook app?

Further to this... Peti might just have missed the facebook boat by about two years, Planetarion being a text only game has possibilities within facebooks limited scope due to the major success's (i.e. Mafia Wars) being text only. However Dragon Wars, Farmville and co have now introduced point and click aspects to facebook applications. One of the declines (note not the only) of PA was the growth and wealth of other MMORPG's that had more user interface. Basically, they weren't text only. It may just be too late for Planetarion to enjoy facebook success.

The way I see it, pump resources into the main game, introduce RPG elements and lend heavily off the successful MMORPG's. Introduce 'expansions' and 'instances', have set planets from a race of I don't know...the 'elders' who ruled the universe before the current Planetarion races evolved, they have planets guarded by a race of techonologically advanced being, these planets would need like 20 planets to take them on, giving massive xp and resource 'drops'. Introduce constants, such as the long running alliances being given a planet each which doesn't ever reset, has no fleets that can be used to attack, but a ton of bonus's, resource benefits etc that cna be used within the alliance. The home planet being constant could even have full scan power at the start of each round, elimination the need for crappy little scan planets, allowing more players to run actual planets...other alliances would get rewards and such for landing attacks. Offer achievements which can be tracked in game and on a website. Alliance members could even earn achievements which would give constant bonus's, such as by defending the allaince home planet 75 times in one round you are promoted to a fleet commander and have an additional fleet slot in the next round which can only be used for defending an alliance member (or the home planet).

This would give players something to work for and get them involved. You could even add a solo aspect to the game for secondary skills which would add bonus's to your planets production and etc.

W/e... Peti probably know's something we don't about facebook. At least I hope. hehe

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By the way, Pete, always remember that nothing you ever do is going to be good enough for this crowd. Ignore everyone except the people you think are worth listening to, because there are a great many idiots out there. Of course, therein lies a trap, be careful to not only listen to people who agree with you.

It ain't easy.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

the problem is the crowd itself bud. Pete needs to decide if he wants to build a game that suits the old crew, or build a game to entertain a new crowd. From the years of discussions on these boards there probably isn't a happy compromise

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

From discussions with people that I've introduced into the game or tried introducing into the game is that they expect a graphical interface these days.

The biggest comparison that I get told of by these people is Evony (which has exploded in popularity in the past 12 months). I've not played it personally but watched someone piss fart around on it and the simple fact that it has graphics made them enjoy it more, even thought the graphics didn't really add anything that text couldn't handle.

I don't think it would take much to introduce that sort of a feel to PA - the game dynamics wouldn't change, although they do need to, but that's another thread in progression.

I don't think it would need to be too in depth (although having an image of the entire universe and your position within it in comparison to everyone else would be kind of cool) but having a view of your planets surface with it's constructions on it, perhaps moving images of them being built etc could be a nice addition.

Adding onto that, clicking on a factory type would allow you access to the current Production list (showing only that factory's ship class) and again perhaps images of your ships in production.

Could even have a Communication Centre that allows access to IRC and the Galaxy's forums - little building with a massive satellite on it. :)

As far as Facebook is concerned, I think it's a good avenue to gather interest, but perhaps more with advertisements or a fan page as opposed to an app. The app would either take away from the main game or not be successful enough without it being, as said above, a rather different game.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

Graphics wise, I'd always prefer something that still supports backwards-compatible text only. We have a surprisingly high % of mobile phone users.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

it was ginger

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You just reminded me of the city view screen from the very first Civ. Now that was an awesome game :D

Mobile phone logins from work are a must! But surely with a bit of creative thinking in the UI you could skirt the graphics pages. OR have a version of the site adapted for mobile phones with graphics off?

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

text only skin for the mobile users and nice fancy graphics for he pc user

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So his post earlier in this thread signifies how long gone he is?

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

he did post that before zpeti made his comment in this thread appocomaster.


Is Zoltan his real name or his net given nick as i realise that its a fairly common hugarian name, but i still think flash gordon when i see it :)

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

Wasnt Zoltan the alien that was worshiped by the bubble wraped jump suited geeks from the film "dudes wheres my car"?

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And unsurprisingly you have a very low % of users in the browser-based sci-fi game segment. Stop putting arbitrary limits in place that make the game uninteresting for 99.9% of the market.

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What limits are you talking about right now? Just to enlighten me ;)

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

i believe heartless was (rightly) highlighting that whilst a high percentage of the planetarion players login via mobiles, the overall market share that planetarion has is negligble, making the percent login via mobile irrelevant if you want to use that as an excuse not to add some kind of graphical interface. (to explain further ruler, by adding a graphical interface you could presumably increase your market share more than the ability to login from a phone has done over the past x years)

Again though, in the ideal world you would have both (graphical interface and ability to play form mobile) in the planetarion of the future.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

I'm not sure I agree with the point you're trying to make here. While, yes, we all know PA doesn't have a particularly significant market share, it is a very good game to play from a mobile phone. If introducing graphical elements makes this impossible, it's worth thinking long and hard if that's the right move to make.

Agreeing with Darkheart, though.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

Well, obviously the problem we are facing here is that the game is only fun with many players (because it is designed that way) but it doesn't attract many players. So there are the options of a) redesigning the game to be fun with less players, b) making the game attract more people or c) both of it. Option a is not going to happen because there is nobody with a clue about what is fun in a game, or how to scale game play. Option b is unlikely to happen because there are always some arbitrary limits put in place like "We need a text only version for mobile phones" or "must be compatible with existing skins".

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

Salvation for PA is not into joining the bandwagon of FB's apps, I would develop the phone version and present PA as The Space Wargame you play from your mobile phone. The future is there.

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.mobi = text .com = Graphic

The graphics should just make the game look better and be more appealing, not change the way it's played.

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I overall agree, there are countless examples of games with fancy graphics that are just horrible.
I don´t exactly see the problem with developing a text version for mobile acess while adding more graphics to the "real" game though, except maybe for the time it might take to get it all done.

Re: Planetarion the game we love to hate
 

as an absolut simple answer u would assume that for a gra[hical version of pa u could set up a sister site (for cost of domain name registration + cost of graphics development) where the menu options that u click on lead to screen with some kind of (as yet of course) undetermined graphics, both sites would rely on a master site which would contain all the relevant databases. That way the pa user can choose to login to the graphics version from their desktop, or the text version from their mobile, and play exactly the same game.

Of course thats not the best or most efficient answer, but it seriously highlights how simple the work around is. And why most reasons or excuses to not have graphics are inadequate.