The Smoking Ban
 

The ban comes into place in just over a month, on 1st July 2007 (fyi) for the whole of the UK. I know some people have already had it enforced where they live (it came into effect in Jersey in January 2007).

I can only see it as a good thing. I especially love the way that my clothes don't stink of smoke after a night out (and as I'm not a particularly sweaty/BO-ridden individual, this allows me to wear them again). Before, I had to wash clothes after 1 night out as they simply FELT dirty.

Pig wrote this in another thread though. Not wanting to derail it (hay jbg :salute:) I thought I'd stick it here:

Do you really think that'll happen, piglet? I can't realistically think of a situation where I'd be wondering what people are talking about outside, and go to join them. Even in the summer I'd rather just be where everyone else is. Just because they're outside having a smoke doesn't mean the conversation suddenly becomes exciting and different.

Come Autumn/Winter, there's no way people are going to be tempted to brave the cold weather outside to join their smoking buddies.

Most of my friends have (thankfully) given up smoking, or are in the process of doing it. I don't smoke. How many of you smoke? Will the ban encourage you to quit?

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

I personally don't like the ban, largely because I drink in old man pubs and the smoke is a part of the charecter of the places.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

I don't smoke. Never have. I don't like being around smoke, given my druthers.

That being said, I believe that a smoking ban in eating establishments is appropriate. In the work place, appropriate. However, I start to get edgy when the government wants to control all aspects of behavior.

In the US, in various locales, they have made outdoor areas such as parks and stadia no smoking areas. They have banned smoking in your back yard in one California city (Walnut Creek) and there has been legislation to make it a crime to smoke in your car if there are children present.

Where is the line to be drawn?

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

For those who don't know, I live in Cardiff (Wales, if you're retarded) which already has a smoking ban. It's great to be able to go out and not stink of smoke. Almost none of my friends smoke, and the couple that do are either planning to give up or just not smoke on a night out.

I have only noticed two downsides so far:

1. Clubs that double as sweatpits (e.g. Metros) stink of sweat/BO for the first 20 minutes that you're there - the smoke used to cover this. It's fine after then though, your nose simply adapts and ignores it.
   
2. Traditional smokey pubs have lost a bit of their old atmosphere. However, customers are starting to come back, if my local's anything to go by.

The upsides are numerous and I'm not going to bore anyone to tears with them since we've been over this sort of thing before, but in my eyes it's been a fundamentally good thing.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

Say there are five of you. Four smoke. You don't. When they want a cigarette as a smoker you are more inclined to go out with other smokers. Smoking is a social activity. Smokers always appear to be chatty and when you are in a situation like say at a train station, airport or in general just waiting at the bar, smokers will speak to each other. It will start off with "got a light" but will develop into a conversation.

I am not sure how clubs etc will deal with smokers. I would assume they will have some kind of backup plan to allow people to exit and come back in again so they can smoke. If this happens I guarentee non smokers will be going out to "get some air" with the smokers.

You are probably right.

I smoke.

I am probably on about 5 a day.

20 when I go out (once sometimes twice a week)

I don't think the ban will encourage me to quit. It will certainly help me if I decided to quit. I smoke outside mostly. In fact the only time where I smoke 20 is in a club. So I just won't smoke 20, but my usual 5 a day.

When I am at home I pop out and have a couple of cigarettes in the evening.

When I am at college/work I smoke outside.

When I am in the pub and around non smokers, in general I pop outside and have one. So far me it won't have a great effect.

Although I am sure it will do on the weak. But hey, no one likes a quitter right|

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

At the moment some clubs here in Cardiff are having a terrible time of it because they only have one entrance/exit. It's slower getting in because of the smokers coming in and out that need to be checked by the bouncers.

The usual way to identify smokers is either to give them festival-style wristbands at the start of the night when you pay to get in, or to stamp their hands in and out. A couple of places started with a cordoned-off area on the pavement but it's just not a viable way of doing things in any area that has heavy through traffic (e.g. St Marys Street in Cardiff).


I expect that most clubs will refurbish and give themselves a main entrance/exit and then a side entrance/exit for smokers to use, staffed by a couple of bouncers max. It's the neatest way of doing things.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

Although I would have no problem with not smoking for a couple of hours, I do know some people who will be gasping if they can't have a cigarette for say four hours. I must admit when you are drunk a cigarette somehow levels you and is rather nice.

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My friend had his birthday recently at a pub in Farringdon that had a no-smoking policy. This was the first glimpse for my smoker-friends of life in bars/pubs without cigarettes.
They said that they rather liked it, as it meant they got to stand outside and chat with some girls who were also smoking. I suppose if little sticks of cancer serve as an icebreaker, they must be a good thing! :salute:

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

This isn`t going to encourage me to quit. It`ll Just be an inconvenience having to go outside when I do decide to have a cigarette. Far less of an inconvenience than giving up would be.

I`m in favour of the ban though. I don`t care about the smell or stuff like that; the way I see it many people have ended up ill / dead over the years due to second hand smoke so cutting down on that will be a good thing.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

I loved it when the smoking ban came in Norway a couple of years ago. The air in pubs, restaurants, etc. is so much more enjoyable. However, some pubs are experiencing lower amounts of visitors due to this whilst in other pubs everyone are gathered outside with the smokers.

In 10 years maybe we can ban smoking everywhere :)

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A pretty good example of narrow-minded stupidity is the insistence on viewing all political arguments solely in terms of how they will affect you personally, in the short term.

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1. If you go to clubs that stink of sweat you're probably going to shit clubs and deserve to die anyway.

2. Pig is generally correct. Im usually with smokers when i do go to terrible clubs; and if its a choice between stand outside with my mates who smoke or sit inside and listen to terrible music on my own at a table i know what id do any time. Weather regardless.

3. Quite a few of my friends have quit smoking; and indeed in my Uni friend group not a single one of them smoke. i think its generally helped people quit.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

sounds a bit like socialism to me gordon

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Even though I am against the ban in principle I am still looking forward to it coming into effect. When I went back to Wales for a weekend, like Furball said it was really nice not to be surrounded by smoke and feel all dirty.

I won't really have a problem with people going outside to talk, mainly because in each of my groups of friends there are only one or two smokers so it is more likely they will have to stand outside on their own. If not I will suffer sitting alone for a bit, not really any different to when just two of you go out and one is stuck in a long bar queue.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

I didn't mention clubs that smell of sweat, what are you talking about? The only mention of sweat was in that I could re-wear clothes after a night out as I personally don't sweat/smell much even if I'm dancing all night.


This (and pig's) argument only applies if all of your friends smoke apart from you. Which is quite rare; usually there will be a mix of smokers and non-smokers.


Which is why a thread here was created, to get a general opinion from other people on how the ban will affect them. Don't be a troglodyte, gordie.

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But all of the stuff youre asking is really superficial and doesnt go anywhere near the heart of the issue; its like there was a political debate about whether it should be illegal for fat people to go out in public and you posted a thread asking if you thought it would help anyone lose weight. Sometimes there are more important/fundamental issues involved than whether John Smith happens to have a small benefit/cost inflicted on his life.

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The drop in cigarette sales accelerated in Ireland after the smoking ban commenced and given the relative similarity of our societies I'd imagine it'll be the same in the UK.

Incidentally do smokers enjoy the taste/smell of smoking?

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I didn't give up smoking when the ban came in in Scotland, though I was always a 'polite' smoker and never enjoyed sparking up indoors anyway. It'll make ****-all difference to most people's lives. Pubs still smell like pubs, people still go to them, the arse didn't fall out of Scotland when it came in and I very much doubt something startling different will happen in England.

The proportion of my friends with whom I go drinking regularly that smoke is probably 20-80, almost exclusively people I worked bar with, so if one of us goes out for a fag it's very rare that anyone's left alone inside.

To be honest I was against the ban, if only because the market had already showed (albeit slow) signs of adapting to changing consumer wants which is exactly what it's meant to do. If people desparately demanded non-smoking pubs and clubs, they'd probably have started to come into existence. Of course it's not that simple, but reliably demand will dictate supply given sufficient time for the market to adapt. People weren't so arsed about smoking indoors that they refused to guzzle liver-destroying alcohol on the off-chance they smelt of smoke or got cancer as opposed to reeking of booze.

Not particularly, though I'm also one of those people who claims that if alcohol-free/low-alcohol lager tasted the same as the good stuff then I'd drink it in greater proportion than the hangover-inducing happy juice I love so much

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It'll be a pain in the arse for me because I work in a pub. I don't see why this ban also applies to privately owned places. :(

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

How so a pain? I never once had to eject anyone for not obeying the ban, and always used to ask people (nicely) to smoke away from the bar when I was working which they invariably didn't take issue with.

You get the occasional drunk who forgets where he's at, but these are the same people who shit in urinals so you know, can't expect too much.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

It's great. We had the same ban introduced a few years ago here. And now you can go home without stinking shit or beeing sore in your eyes becouse of the smoke. People complained alot before the ban got into effect, but afterwards it's been mostly positive.

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Your place sounds alot nicer than where I work. :(

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Yeah sorry I realise that was a stupid generalisation to make based upon limited experience. A couple of friends work in not-rough-but-calling-it-'banter'-would-be-a-push kind of pubs. Generally good-natured but a fight a night or your money back. They had it a little worse but nothing more than getting people out at the end of the night.

The plus side is that you'll almost certainly be told to ask them once nicely, explain that it's now against the law yadda yadda and then call the police. It sounds stupid, but I'd love to see someone hauled off for something as stupid as smoking indoors, besides it being an obvious waste of police time.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

Personally I don't like the smell of cigarettes. I think it's a very nasty smell that gets everywhere. Goes into your clothes, hands, teeth etc. The smell of cigars is lovely. I also like the smell of stale smoke in snooker clubs. Those who play snooker will know what I mean. On the whole if I could take one thing away from cigarettes (aside from the harmful chemicals, cancer etc) it would be the smell.

The taste is something else. Like Beer there is a remarkable taste difference in cigarettes. Not to the extent of beer, but strength and tobacco. This is probably more noticeable with rollups where the filters are less, and the papers are thinner so you are really smoking the tobacco.

I actually sometimes really like a cigarette. Normally after eating. It just tastes so good. It is probably a psychological thing, but on the whole I do enjoy it. If I smoke say 20, by the time I light the 20th I am asking myself why, as it tastes vile.

But you do get a kick from it. Cigarettes do sometimes balance me, once again it could all be in the head, but that first one of the day (for me this is normally about 1pm) is always good and when you are stressed they are great.

My main issue with the smoking ban is the whole choice thing. Aside from the whole "it kills people" thing, I now have one less choice in life. I can't remember who said it earlier, but surely if the market dictated non smoking pubs then they would open up. If say GD represents an average cross section of the population in terms of smokers/non smokers of say 18-30 year olds (ie 1 in 5 are smokers) then why does it take government legislation to take away smoking pubs and put in non smoking pubs?

At this point you will normally hear an anti smoker say "well I have a choice, if I dont want to go to a smoking pub I don't have to, but the people who work behind the bar, they dont have a choice. They have to endure your passive smoking"

Thats all well and good, but the people working behind the bar can get a job elsewhere. That's a choice. No one is forced to endure smoking. If they don't like it leave, don't go there.

I can see all the plus points of the smoking ban and I am in favour of a ban. But I believe that premises such as members only clubs, sheesha bars etc should be able to opt out of a ban. As I say that thing that annoys me is not that I can't smoke indoors, I generally smoke outdoors anyway. What actually annoys me is that someone is telling me that I can't smoke indoors and not just anybody but the government. If a pub chose to be no smoking, sure, thats fine.

But the government telling me I can't smoke a pack of their duty laden cigarettes that effectively fund the NHS. That ****s me off.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

I think the problem here is your assumption that the majority will drive the market. If you have a group of five friends and one of them wants to smoke, they will go to a smoking pub over a non-smoking pub. The majority does not rule.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

That's not the smokers fault, it's the weakness of the "majority". Also what kind of friends do you have where you allow the one smoker dictate where you go?

I have two groups of friends, the majority in one group smoke, ie 8/10 the other group im the only smoker. In the second group no way do I dictate where we go depending on whether or not I can smoke, thats ludicrous. If say we go to a restaurant I will always step outside and in general when around a group of non smokers I step outside. So perhaps you are just a weak person and let a smoker bully you into going where he/she wants to go.

If you were THAT bothered, you wouldn't go to smoke filled pubs and slowly the market would adapt.

Of course the counter argument would be that the government is doing this to protect us and all that bollacks. We know that's horse shit as they are willing to sell them to us, but smoking them when and where we want. NO NO NO.

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None of my friends smoke, I didn't say it was my group of friends. Five is probably the limit for how accommodating a group of friends will be, beyond that they'll probably just make the smoker suffer.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

We're year and a bit into the smoking ban in Scotland. I don't fully agree with the ban.

I am all for non smoking restaurants - I say this as a smoker who works in one. In terms of pubs I can totally understand that from the point of view of the bar staff and of non smokers this must be a relief. Having to smoke outside doesn't personally bother me and luckily enough my local has a small alcove in the doorway where I can shelter if it's raining (although technically this alcove is included in the ban but neither the bar staff or police bother enforcing that). I have also found that I smoke far less when I am drinking since the ban came in. It is pretty horrific seeing crowds of people standing outside pubs smoking. I live in a 'tourist town' - it can't look nice for holiday makers especially as there are so many lazy ****s who just throw their doubts on the street rather than use a cigarette bin.

What I do object to is the fact that we cannot smoke inside my place of work at all. We have a small room at the back of the building where staff used to be able to smoke but now they cannot do so. This room was only ever used for smoking - we have a seperate staff room for eating in - and yet we still cannot use it. This to me seems retarded.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

When it was enforced in Scotland, it took me a while to get used to it. It is annoying going out and not being able to have a smoke while having your drink/coffee.

The good side is that is it easy to judge the character of a pub from the class of smokers outside it :)

Also smoking is not really UK's biggest problem they could fix other stuff first.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

It was about extending the longevity of the thread. People prefer to talk about themselves/their opinions than be forced into a discussion topic. A thread opening with "hay can you guyz think of any alternatives to smoking bans?" or "how do you feel about the possible economic loss from people no longer paying for services at places without a designated smoking areas" or "is the smoking ban fair because of the victimless crime and the money smokers inject into the country through taxes" would probably take a long time to grow. This way, we're branching onto those topics naturally through the evolution of discussion.

Really nobrod, I didn't think I'd have to explain to you how internet forums and their natural progression of discussions work ;)

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

I'm all for the abolition of freedoms and the excessive use of criminal penalty as long as tomkat's clothes smell nice.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

In much the same way as people who need/crave water, no.

You might get a few cigar smokers who argue this point, but take nicotine out of the equation and the connaisseur is very few and far in between.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

You are such a gentleman!

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this is the only part of the ban that seems patently absurd. My sense of moral outrage over the general restriction of freedoms is somewhat limited - it would be easier to support the criminalisation of narcotics if advertising narcotics to children was a multi-billion dollar industry - but the ban on smoking rooms is just needlessly vindictive.

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I don't really know much about how exactly the ban will work so this could be total crap, but if it is banning smoking in the workplace is there any effect on home care workers? I mean technically their place of work is someone elses house but it seems unlikely to ban people from smoking in their own home

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

Smoking rooms are absolutely disgusting.

In the Home Office there used to be one on every few floors in one building. These rooms have to have really special air conditioning to remove all the smoke from the air - this also requires shitloads of maintenance as they get clogged with tar rather quickly. The Air Con system has to be on a seperate system to everywhere else so the smell doesn't spread throughout the building.
Unfortunately in this particular building the room was near the lift shaft which meant that the lift always stank of smoke. On top of that whenever you came up the stairs you knew exactly which floor the smoking room was on, every time the door opened the smell went round the whole floor.
I can't imagine having to work in a place that smelled that bad :(

Also, the state of the room was horrible. The yellow stains everywhere, all the furniture, carpet and ceiling tiles all needed chucking out as they was sticky with tar and stained yellow, the windows were streaky and the air was heavy months after the room had been closed.


Also, anyone going into a smoking room for a fag and then coming back into the office just stank even worse than normal due to the dirty air - you might not be able to smell it but it's disgusting to all non-smokers.




Now the thing that's really annoyed me is things highlighted in articles like this.
People are complaining that pubs are building shelters outside for smokers.
Of course pubs are going to do this! And it's perfectly acceptable to me for them to do it.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

Apparantly, they can only have x number of walls, otherwise it is technically inside and therefore illegal.*


*I don't know if this is true, but I suspect it may be

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

yeah, but the lift smelling horrible isnt actually killing you is it.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

We had the ban here in Norway for a few years now, and quite a few pubs etc has gone belly up. They tried to accommodate the smokers by adding porches outside where they could smoke with 3 walls, but that was to much for the government, they decided keeping smokers warm were against the law.

On a personal note, i smoke cigarettes & cigars, and i like the smell and taste of it. What i DO NOT like is the smell of buds in ashtrays, keep em sealed up like normal people do.

Most (but not all) the people i know smoke cigars, and some of em cigarettes, but then again most the people i know ain't hippies & metrosexuals.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

Unpleasant working conditions.

If your office smelt like a sewer all day I think you'd want something done about it.

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Something doesn't have to kill me for me not to want it. We don't have to deal in extremes here. We live in an age of comfort so it's natural to resist something that makes us uncomfortable (be it physically, mentally, emotionally or socially).



In Jersey places with more than 50% cover are classed as buildings so you can't smoke in them. This includes bus shelters and similar.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

I think the ban is great. Althought I like to smoke now and then, it won't bother me much.

As for the government wanting to control things, thats what they do - for your own good (not always, but hey!) The idea is that the health implications for the nation are reduced and less money will be spent on treating smoking and passive smoking related illness.

Whether this happens remains to be seen, but logic would say it should work.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

I'm saying that were it not for the health risk, a statutory ban on smoking would be spectacularly rubbish. 'I don't like it so it should be banned' isn't even a slippery slope

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It will make drinking with Idi even more pleasurable than it already is!

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

Phang's already said this, but to reitirate : something does have to be an extreme to warrant use of the law in this way. You are basically ultimately warranting the use of violence (i.e. if someone smokes openly then the police if called will have to use force to get them to stop if they have to) which means it can't just be you feeling uncomfortable generally. Lots of people might be uncomfortable with gays holding hands, etc - we don't (or shouldn't) have laws against that.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

horn, idi actually went on a damn long walk some weeks ago, probably much further than you've ever walked :(

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

I might be incorrect but as far I know will pressing the A button result in a punch. The 'select' button should activate the special attack.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

Don't be such a neek Silversmoke!

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

Posting in support of the idea of outlawing black people as their over-representation in criminal elements of society makes me uncomfortable.

Re: The Smoking Ban
 

Nah, let's just restrict the stop-and-quiz bill to only apply to Johnny Foreigner. Hey wait, that's basically the same thing!