A three state solution?
 

With hamas in control of gaza and fatah in control of the west bank, it seems kinda inevitable they'll split. I'm not sure if its even possible to reconcile such ideologically opposed yet dominant factions within any country.

Re: A three state solution?
 

Is it actually an ideological split though?

Re: A three state solution?
 

It depends on what you mean by that, apparently Fatah are more willing to negotiate with Israel than Hamas. I just don't think its viable for a country to have two different political cultures in two different areas that aren't connected - the creation of Bangladesh from east pakistan is an example. In a two state solution some kind of federal system might work but essentially hamas and fatah each want to do things their own way, so why not let them.

Re: A three state solution?
 

Simple solution: Football. Create a Israeli/Palestine football league. The two nations will soon realise that stability and ergo less bombing each other will pave the way for decent football matches. There is one catch I suppose, if you want to be pedantic about things: their primary focus needs to be football instead of Judaism/Islam, which can't be that difficult, surely, as football is the one true religion.

Re: A three state solution?
 

Well, there are certainly political differences between the two groups, and I'm sure ideological quesitons which cause some of the divisions. I'm just not sure they're the main reasons between recent tensions. I've not read much about Palestenian affairs over the last six months but certainly in recent history one of the criticsms that regularly surfaces about the Palestenian Authority (and by extension, Fatah) is that corruption is rife with funds disproportionately flowing towards supporters of those in power and their families, supporters, etc (well, duh). Since a lot of the international community refuses to recognise Hamas, this might have worsened the tension in this regard.

As I say, I'm not saying there's not a political difference between the two, and underlying this violence might be some issue like Hamas want to implement policy x but Fatah want to do policy y - but it's also possible that this is a much more old fashioned scuffle over resources.

Re: A three state solution?
 

Actually, the lot of international community (the States) recognize Hamas as terrorists.

Re: A three state solution?
 

there wasn't going to be a two-state solution, so there sure as hell isn't going too be a three-state solution.

Re: A three state solution?
 

I'm not sure it's inevitable, nothing ever is. I think it's more likely Hamas will come back to the negotiating table from a much stronger position especially if elections are called and Hamas wins by a landslide again.

Dante is right about the current tensions, Fatah had the perception of being super corrupt and part of Hamas' election victory was to do with a desire to sweep the corruption away. When Hamas won the election the West cut off funding because supporting real democratically elected governments in the Middle East is not something the West is fond of :o Hamas had trouble paying government workers and most of the police and security services were loyal to Fatah strongmen (and still getting training from America), Hamas deployed its own militia as a police force queue clashes between the two and the PA security services getting rolled over.

Hamas are promising to get that kidnapped BBC journalist released and have guaranteed the safety of all foreigners and journalists in the Gaza Strip since they come to help Palestinians, savvy PR move.

Re: A three state solution?
 

Well by "recognise" I meant "recognise as a legitimate authority of the Palestinian people" rather than they simply don't recognise them at all. But yeah, that's basically what I meant.

But so what? Fatah (or the PLO which they were a dominant part of for long periods) were also considered terrorists (at one point being the biggest terrorist organisation in the world I think), and there was a rather large hoopla from the American-Israeli right when Rabin/Clinton were willing to deal Arafat (who was often termed a terrorist previously). The two current largest political parties in Northern Ireland (Sin Feinn / DUP) both have links to groups formerly active as terrorists. Hell, Nelson Mandela was a terrorist to many on the right while he festered on Robben Island a fact some were later embarrassed by.

So yeah, Hamas are recognised as terrorists, but they're hardly alone in that regard. When (or if) it's ever political expedient for the international community to deal with Hamas then that label will be quietly dropped and discussion of their violence will probably fade.

Re: A three state solution?
 

In my view, Fatah and Abbas have shown themselfs to be undemocratic. They never seemed to accept the fact that the palestinian people gave Hamas majority in parlament. Then they have been helped by the international community to sort of bully Hamas going into a coalition goverment with them.

This open fighting between Hamas and Fatah has been coming, Israel has been letting the US send arms to Fatah for some time now, according to internation media. It seems like Israel and the US wants to boolster Fatah in order to weaken Hamas.

It's kind of disapointing to say this for me, since I usually prefer secular parties, but Fathah seems absolutely shit and I would like Hamas to woop them and run the goverment by themselfs.

Re: A three state solution?
 

so what happens when the US lift the aid embargo - but only to the west bank, and israel start releasing those millions and millions of dollars they have been holding back - againoto the west bank, not gaza?
there are already rumblings that they are going to move in that direction, and if all the ordinary citizens see is israel still making incursions into gaza to stop the rockets, but the west bank starting to flourish, will this be the best way for israel to make hamas toothless? or will it push hamas to greater acts of violence?


EDIT: also, surely hamas have shown themselves to be at least as undemocratic as fatah? the one real chance was abbas appointing an independent in charge of security, an independent who (from what i read) had good ideas and good plans on how to integrate the seemingly random security forces that patrol both areas into a true poilce force, and what happened? both sides ignored him and the violence escalated.

Re: A three state solution?
 

Hamas has an outright majority in parlament. The new prime minister, that Abbas have put forth, cannot rule for more than 30 days before beeing confirmed by the parlament...

also: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/world...104858,00.html

Re: A three state solution?
 

good article, although quite frankly, hamas would blame the weather on a zionist agenda if they thought it had even the remotest chance of sticking.
The problem is, yes, fatah probably HAVE been working with israel, what with them pretty much having to to get anywhere in that country. as i said, it really wouldnt surprise me if the west bank becomes markedly more prosperous than gaza if this state of affairs continues, as the israelis have absolutely no reason to deal with hamas, an organisation that still wants to destroy israel as a state (which, lets face it, no matter what your views on the subject, isn't going to happen). So whats going to happen is the israelis wil start dealing with the west bank, and leave gaza to its squallor, the international community will 'deplore' the suffering of a portion on the palestinian people, while at the same time applauding the progress that is being made in the west bank.
*shrug* as far as i am concerned, hamas have done themselves no favours here, as all they have done is given israel an option it otherwise lacked

Re: A three state solution?
 

Did you know that in Hamas' landslide election victory where they won 56% of the seats to Fatah's 34% the actual difference in terms of votes cast was only 3%? Democracy in action eh.

Re: A three state solution?
 

Much like the british democracy then :)

Re: A three state solution?
 

Actually that 3% vote difference led to a 25% difference in number of seats as opposed to a 22% one.

Re: A three state solution?
 

Hamas. I always like any political party who bases its power on masked gunmen. Much like the empire in Star Wars.

Re: A three state solution?
 

the joys of the 'winners bonus' in elections makes the results "undemocratic". heh.

Re: A three state solution?
 

An extended series of question marks that went here would probably be required to adequately display my confusion at what you're trying to say but I guess one will suffice.

?

Re: A three state solution?
 

Well, i thought it was pretty obvious. With many "marginal" seats in a parliament, a small change in the vote can result in a seemingly undemocratic distribution of seats within the parliament.

Say that there are 100 seats, however 40 of them are "marginal" and held with a swing of less than 3%. Thus, a change in vote of 3% could lead to one party holding 70% of the seats in parliament (ie, 30 safe on either side, then one gets the 40 marginal seats).

This "phenomenon" is known as the "winner's bonus" at least in australia.

Re: A three state solution?
 

Ah, I thought your quotation marks implied sarcasm or something. Clearly you just rather like "using" them.