Planetarion Forums - Through the Fire and Flames

Page 1 of 2

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

Planetarion Forums (https://pirate.planetarion.com/index.php)

- General Discussions (https://pirate.planetarion.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2)

- - Through the Fire and Flames (https://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=197221)

Kenny

3 Dec 2008 02:53

Through the Fire and Flames

Completed it on hard mode :up:

Deepflow

3 Dec 2008 10:29

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Been there, done that, I'll never do it on expert though :(

Also, I don't really see where you're going with this thread...

All Systems Go

4 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Looking at the front page, it does seem like there may very well be a lot of Warhammer players here.

QazokRouge5

5 Dec 2008 04:12

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

i cant master the orange button.

Kenny

5 Dec 2008 05:42

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

QR5 - the way I learnt was to play hard mode, but ignore the orange button altogether. Once I was able to play the rest of the notes faster, I started adding in as many orange notes as I could.

And I wont be happy until I can do TTFAF on expert, though I'm probably still quite some way off. I can do every song on expert from the set list except One by Metallica, and another one. And quite a few bonus songs, including Dragon Force.

Such a good game though...

Tomkat

5 Dec 2008 17:46

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

I don't get the attraction of Guitar Hero (that is what you are talking about, right?).

I mean take away the music (mute button) and the guitar (use a controller) and all you are doing is pressing buttons when something flashes up on a screen. It doesn't sound very exciting :(

All Systems Go

5 Dec 2008 19:20

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat (Post 3160115)

I completely agree, although I don't understand eating either. I mean take away the taste and the texture ane all you're doing is grinding your teeth. Madness!

On a serious note, it is very addictive, like that dance game often found in bowling alleys.

Tomkat

5 Dec 2008 21:53

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

That's a pretty shit comparison.

Achilles

5 Dec 2008 21:54

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Actually, it's pretty apt.

Kenny

5 Dec 2008 22:11

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Why? He took a concept, took it out of any discernable and all defining contexts, and made a criticism based on that. Isn't that what you did, TK?

Yahwe

5 Dec 2008 22:15

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat (Post 3160133)

That's a pretty shit comparison.

yeah

and books are just black ink on wood pulp

we should burn them

dda	6 Dec 2008 00:02

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yahwe (Post 3160136)

yeah

and books are just black ink on wood pulp

we should burn them

We'll make a Republican of you yet!

Tomkat

6 Dec 2008 14:15

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Use a comparison to another computer game.

If a game usually has its sound removed and you have to use a basic controller then it still is fun. Not with guitar hero!

Mzyxptlk

6 Dec 2008 14:22

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

So don't remove them.

Kenny

6 Dec 2008 14:26

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

But the game was never designed to be used with a normal controller. Ergo, that's not the way that it was intended to deliver fun.

If you take away the things that make it enjoyable, and then say under those circumstances then it wouldn't be fun - is that not a bit like stating the obvious?

To compare to another computer game - the dance machines (as ASG mentioned before). Take away the music, and the dance mat and sure, it'd suck. But it has music, it has a dancemat and people literally queue up at these things to use them because they're just that fun.

To compare to another game, it's like taking the ball out of football and complaining that it's just a bunch of guys running around.

TK, you lose this one I'm afraid.

Tomkat

6 Dec 2008 17:41

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Why don't you just buy a normal guitar and play the music normally?
1. It's more impressive
2. It's more versatile
3. It's more fun

All Systems Go

6 Dec 2008 18:04

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat (Post 3160209)

Why don't you just buy a normal guitar and play the music normally?
1. It's more impressive
2. It's more versatile
3. It's more fun

4. It's more difficult
5. It takes years to master
6. It's less sociable in many ways

Tomkat

6 Dec 2008 18:06

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

If you invested the time taken to "master" Guitar Hero to learning how to play the guitar, I'm sure most people would be able to play a few songs to a competent level.

Achilles

6 Dec 2008 18:25

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

For a teacher you are ridiculously close-minded. If you don't find Guitar Hero fun that's fine, but saying that's it's objectively crap and that people should do what you find fun is just retarded.

Tomkat

6 Dec 2008 19:07

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

I'm not saying it's objectively crap dude (don't use adjectives if you don't know what they mean).

It's my opinion.

I'm backing up my opinion with statements.

You really aren't very bright :(

Tomkat

6 Dec 2008 19:13

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

oh and PS the "for a teacher comment" is one of the most ignorant things people say

i know that when you're 12 or 13 it seems that teachers know everything about everything but we're actually just as mortal as the rest of society.

Kenny

6 Dec 2008 19:46

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

I believe Achilles was implying that you're presenting your views as if you're being objective, when really the only thing you have to go on is subjectivity.

You're allowed to think the game isn't fun - nobody's trying to tell you otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomkat

Why don't you just buy a normal guitar and play the music normally?
1. It's more impressive
2. It's more versatile
3. It's more fun

In your opinion, perhaps. But to try and imply people who disagree with you are wrong (and fundementally, that is exactly what you're doing) and argue based on that is in itself highly ignorant.

Here's basically what's happened:

Other People: Guitar Hero is fun
TomKat: No it isnt, because if certain aspect of the game were different, it wouldn't be enjoyable
Other People: But other aspects aren't different, so your argument is flawed
TomKat: But other things are more fun
Other People: You have to understand some people dont share your values of 'fun'

So lets not turn this in to an argument about word choice, what's fun or what's not, and start encouraging me to get TTFAF on Expert done, hmmk?

Tomkat

6 Dec 2008 20:16

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenny (Post 3160224)

Other People: Guitar Hero is fun
TomKat: No it isnt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat (Post 3160115)

I don't get the attraction of Guitar Hero.

Tomkat

6 Dec 2008 20:16

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

(noone has actually justified why it is fun they've just got in a strop with me for saying I can't understand how it's fun)

(all they've done is try to be funny by criticising my argument rather than supporting their own)

Yahwe

6 Dec 2008 21:01

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat (Post 3160218)

in your case more so

Achilles

7 Dec 2008 00:48

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Hey Tomkat, did you know some people find putting foreign objects up their anus to be fun? While I personally don't find such things to have much appeal it would be enormously ignorant of me to assume this applies to everyone. In this thread you've used flawed argument after flawed argument in some bizarre attempt to prove to people that Guitar Hero isn't fun as if your opinion had some kind of basis in fact, which it obviously does not. I would like to point out that I don't actually like Guitar Hero either but at least I have the miniscule amount of common sense required to understand that this doesn't mean it's simply could not be fun as you do.

And by "for a teacher" the sentiment I wished to impart was that I find your lack of objectivity on pretty much every issue to be very undesirable in someone who proposes to teach new ideas and concepts to young, impressionable people. The English public schooling system is one of the worst in Europe and I suspect you are a dimly glowing example of why that is. But as you've said yourself on numerous occasions, they are so desperate they'll take anyone.

_Kila_

7 Dec 2008 02:33

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

level 4.

Tomkat

7 Dec 2008 03:08

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

i wonder if achilles will ever get past the fact he doesnt like me and be able to make reasoned arguments based on his opinion rather than his bias :(

Tomkat

7 Dec 2008 03:10

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Let's put Achilles' argument in context of my own.

Achilles: People like putting things up their bum!
Tom: I don't understand why people would want to do that.
Achilles: Your argument is stupid
Tom: There are other ways of pleasuring yourself without that, why would you do that?
Achilles: Your argument is stupid, you're stupid
Tom: You still haven't explained why people like putting things up their bum
Achilles: Your argument is stupid, you're stupid, you're a shit teacher!
Tom: Right-oh!

Tomkat

7 Dec 2008 03:12

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

In case that's a bit too complicated for you Achilles, I'll make it a bit simpler.

I did not say "Guitar Hero is not fun".
I did say "I don't understand the attraction of Guitar Hero".

There is a difference.

It isn't even a subtle difference.

I hope you can see the difference.

But I don't think you can :(

Achilles

7 Dec 2008 08:38

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat

i wonder if achilles will ever get past the fact he doesnt like me and be able to make reasoned arguments based on his opinion rather than his bias

I have rarely seen such a flawed argument in all my life. Firstly, I think you are an idiot but I don't dislike you. Secondly, I did argue my own opinion and obviously that is biased by what I think. How could it possibly be otherwise? Do you stop for even a second to read back what you are about to post or do you prefer your stupidity to be off the cuff?

Quote:

Achilles: People like putting things up their bum!
Tom: I don't understand why people would want to do that.
Achilles: Your argument is stupid
Tom: There are other ways of pleasuring yourself without that, why would you do that?

That actually sums all of this up pretty well. You want to rationalise fun and for it to be explainable to you. Maybe in 2011 when the LHC proves that the Earth actually revolves around Tomkat and not the big yellow scareball. Until then you may well have to accept that someone else's enjoyment of the world doesn't have to make sense to you and frequently won't. I just can't believe you actually think people should have to rationalise why Guitar Hero is fun to you or that they would even be able to do so. Do you realise how fundamentally, egocentrically retarded that entire line of "reasoning" is?

Gate	7 Dec 2008 11:05

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat (Post 3160230)

(noone has actually justified why it is fun they've just got in a strop with me for saying I can't understand how it's fun)

Can you pick up a guitar and play 'Through the Fire and the Flames' almost flawlessly at a cost of £40 or less?

It's fun.

I have neither the time, money nor talent to learn the guitar. But the metaphorical masturbation of banging out tunes on a guitar shaped object is exquisite. And anyone can do it.

Tomkat

7 Dec 2008 11:42

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Achilles (Post 3160287)

I just can't believe you actually think people should have to rationalise why Guitar Hero is fun to you or that they would even be able to do so. Do you realise how fundamentally, egocentrically retarded that entire line of "reasoning" is?

I've never played Guitar Hero. I don't understand how/why it is fun. I was hoping someone would explain it to me.

If someone asked why World of Warcraft is fun, I'd explain that to them rather than just ridicule them for not understandnig. Maybe that's what makes me a good teacher. I'm willing to be patient and explain things, rather than criticising someone for not understanding...

Mzyxptlk

7 Dec 2008 12:45

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Dude, Wow sucks.

Tomkat

7 Dec 2008 15:02

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

It does suck but I'm addicted to it :(

MrL_JaKiri

8 Dec 2008 02:33

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat (Post 3160190)

If a game usually has its sound removed and you have to use a basic controller then it still is fun. Not with guitar hero!

A lot of the best games lose a hell of a lot if you turn the sound off. Anything with a horror element for a start, good use of sound was a big part of making System Shock 2 the game it was. To suggest playing a music game with the sound off is an exercise in confusion itself.

Why is it fun? It lets people fulfil the fantasy of being a rock star. Does it matter that it doesn't work if you use a different controller? Of course not, stop being silly.

I've never played it, don't know anyone who I know to have played it and yet these things are somewhat obvious.

Nodrog

8 Dec 2008 06:49

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Achilles

You want to rationalise fun and for it to be explainable to you. Maybe in 2011 when the LHC proves that the Earth actually revolves around Tomkat and not the big yellow scareball. Until then you may well have to accept that someone else's enjoyment of the world doesn't have to make sense to you and frequently won't. I just can't believe you actually think people should have to rationalise why Guitar Hero is fun to you or that they would even be able to do so. Do you realise how fundamentally, egocentrically retarded that entire line of "reasoning" is?

Something being 'fun' doesnt make it a worthwhile pursuit. Things which offer short-term gratification are often unfufilling and meaningless in the long term - yeah, someone might have 'fun' playing GH but theyre never going to get the tangible sense of achivement and purpose that can be obtained from learning a real instrument, even if the latter is more difficult and less enjoyable at first. And when the person stops playing GH in a few years then the time he has invested in it will be wasted, while the person who learned an instrument will have gained something they can take with them through the rest of their life. Very few people are likely to look back at their youth and regret not having played more computer games.

Yahwe

8 Dec 2008 08:28

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog (Post 3160374)

Something being 'fun' doesnt make it a worthwhile pursuit.

Veto.

Gate	8 Dec 2008 17:05

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

I'm with yahwe.

The purpose of life is to have fun. My 20-30 hours on guitar hero gave me lots more fun than the time I spent painfully scraping out the opening to 'Smoke on the Water' on one string on a real guitar.

Leave music to the arts fags, tbh.

Alki	10 Dec 2008 17:07

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

I cant do TTFAF on expert either, it would be good but its just insanity, i might get there eventually, one is insane, as is raining blood.

Anyone got world tour yet, im considering getting it just for everlong (there are more good songs on it aswell).

Henners i challenge you to a gh battle!

vuLgAr

10 Dec 2008 17:16

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

world tour seems to be better than the previous editions, it has quite a few new features and a better distribution of musical genres but the deciding factor in purchasing it has to be that they have somehow enhanced making the whole room move after each song with a much longer effect. All in all though it's pretty much just the same game with different songs, why they don't just bring out some sort of add on pack and save people a fortune just shows how much you are being ripped off.

Dead_Meat

14 Dec 2008 04:18

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nodrog (Post 3160374)

TK is pretty much right that the popularity of guitar hero and the dancing games is the product of an instant gratification culture which is built around meaningless second-hand experiences, and that actually learning a real instrument or how to dance would be more rewarding, but its a fun gimmick nonetheless.

Most computer games are a waste of effort and a diversion of time away from other potentially more fufilling activities though so I'm not really sure how valid a criticism it is. Yeah, learning how to a play a real guitar is a better way of spending your time than playing Guitar Hero, but then its also a far better way of spending your time than playing ****ing world of warcraft. While the things you can achieve in GH are meaningless in a broader sense, and the 'skills' you gain are useless, at least it actually contains achivement and skill rather than replacing them with what is essentially just a metric of the time youve spent playing. WoW is a parody of computer games and using it as example of a worthwhile activity is laughable

PS I haevnt played WoW just lke you havent played GH..

Something being 'fun' doesnt make it a worthwhile pursuit. Things which offer short-term gratification are often unfufilling and meaningless in the long term - yeah, someone might have 'fun' playing GH but theyre never going to get the tangible sense of achivement and purpose that can be obtained from learning a real instrument, even if the latter is more difficult and less enjoyable at first. And when the person stops playing GH in a few years then the time he has invested in it will be wasted, while the person who learned an instrument will have gained something they can take with them through the rest of their life. Very few people are likely to look back at their youth and regret not having played more computer games.

How do you explain people playing PA then?

Years of effort into something that basically achieves nothing, unless PA is some sort of breeding ground for future politicians....

Kenny

14 Dec 2008 05:18

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

That's quite depressing, DM. It is literally YEARS of effort.

Kenny

14 Dec 2008 05:19

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by V*Messiah (Post 3160698)

All in all though it's pretty much just the same game with different songs, why they don't just bring out some sort of add on pack and save people a fortune just shows how much you are being ripped off.

Asif the £150 price tag wasn't your first clue....

Yahwe

14 Dec 2008 20:20

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead_Meat (Post 3161000)

How do you explain people playing PA then?

Years of effort into something that basically achieves nothing, unless PA is some sort of breeding ground for future politicians....

In my day when a chap didn't tow the party line he was strung up sir.

quite rightly too you damn traitor

always stealing me'damn oinment

Gate	15 Dec 2008 10:10

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dead_Meat (Post 3161000)

How do you explain people playing PA then?

Years of effort into something that basically achieves nothing, unless PA is some sort of breeding ground for future politicians....

Anyone who BCs/DCs/HCs for an alliance has a good chance to learn teamwork and leadership skills. PA can encourage logical problem solving, time & resource management, dealing with people*, inventiveness etc

I'm kind of glad I spent some of my youth playing PA. The alternative in my area would have been more drink and drugs or some other way to waste time.

*most of the time this is just internet geeks. But you have to deal with internet geeks in quite a few jobs...

Yahwe

15 Dec 2008 20:46

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gate (Post 3161042)

*most of the time this is just internet geeks. But you have to deal with internet geeks in quite a few jobs...

No you don't.

We sent ours to Slough; so now we call them for them to say "have you tried turning it off and on again"

_Kila_

15 Dec 2008 23:45

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

Slough? I thought the internet was near Ipswich...

Dead_Meat

16 Dec 2008 17:22

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

[quote=Gate;3161042]Anyone who BCs/DCs/HCs for an alliance has a good chance to learn teamwork and leadership skills. PA can encourage logical problem solving, time & resource management, dealing with people*, inventiveness etc

I'm kind of glad I spent some of my youth playing PA. The alternative in my area would have been more drink and drugs or some other way to waste time.[quote]Back in the day, drink and rugs were something you did whille waiting a few hours, or a day, for the next tick.

Yahwe

16 Dec 2008 21:17

Re: Through the Fire and Flames

[quote=Dead_Meat;3161130][quote=Gate;3161042]Anyone who BCs/DCs/HCs for an alliance has a good chance to learn teamwork and leadership skills. PA can encourage logical problem solving, time & resource management, dealing with people*, inventiveness etc

I'm kind of glad I spent some of my youth playing PA. The alternative in my area would have been more drink and drugs or some other way to waste time.

Quote:

Back in the day, drink and rugs were something you did whille waiting a few hours, or a day, for the next tick.

and it taught you those valuable computer skills

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 17:31.

Page 1 of 2

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page