Religion and the truth
I just read a version of shakespears hamlet. it started with a paragraph how many things in old English could be misinterpreted. And that a lot of the printings had miscopies. I seen a program about Nostradamus, (old fortune teller) How the parts of the text where miscopied by printers. Just remove a letter, miss a space bar. And old or ancient words have a very different meaning.
the bibble was completed between 300-650 the koran was completed between 700-1000 So we can truly say we should inter-per books from the 13th and 17th century, but people live, and even go to war for way older books. Can anyone explain this? |
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and the point of this is...
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While a lot of people state way older books as facts, which influence there lives greatly this is wrong |
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EDIT: now i am not happy with the red blobs i see by your name. I do think that you need to know more about history. but then so do a lot here. |
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There are 2 things i stated, not in perfect english. But the best i can come up with at this time. Now i stated 2 books that so called experts call "many different meanings, without a clear awnser what the writer was trying to say" (just like my late nigth strange questions topics like these) Then i named 2 books that around 50% of the world; lives and act by, and truelly believe. I also stated the times these books where writen. Now we can proof scientificly that the first 2 books arnt fact based due to different copies of the book. Then why do so many people believe these so called holy books? why are there so many problems due to these books? which propably arnt the real intentions of the writers. |
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WWJBJS |
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As to why people follow any religous text, but then use it to justify evil acts, that has far more to do with evil people then it does with any particular religous texts (with the exception of cults that teach evil as good). The simple fact of the matter is people will use any means they can to justify their evil actions, even to twist and distort 'good' beliefs to justify their actions. |
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sorry Monroe - there are massive interpretation errors in the bible.
Just compare the difference between the King James bible and the more recent editions - some of the passages read very differently. Seeing as the OT has many different authors, and was written over 1000 years, it's understandable that there are translation errors. Which makes the fact that some people take the English version literally even more laughable. |
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I've even noticed differences between an English and Dutch translation of the bible
and since in latin certain words are mixed into one, it only seems logical that alot of things are translated quite freely If you can translate it better feel free to publish your own holy book tho EDIT: to add to the fun, the old Testament was written in Hebrew and Aramaic and the New Testament in Greek |
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It appears that no one in your class was particularly hard working or bright. |
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It's called Fundamentalism (or Evangelicalismas Christians prefer to call it when refering to themselves, to distance themselves from the proper religious nutters) .
I was watching a documentary about fundamentalism in the five major religions. One of the Christians said something along the lines of 'if you start questioning which bits of the Bible are true or not then you just pick make your own religion. Either it's all true or none of it is. that is why I believe in Genesis.' |
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I'm going to have to echo T&F's comments here : Looking for mistranslations or possible misinterpretations in the Bible seems to be missing the point somewhat. The main claims of most holy books are so patently absurd it's not like we have to look for spelling mistakes when considering their weaknesses.
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Trying to ad hominem a book which purports to contain records of events which defied the laws of physics is pretty cool but a slight waste of time guys.
I echoed an echo of an echo but it's okay because my summation was way funkier. |
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EDIT: and i'm not entirely sure that like the rest of you I want to live in a world where libraries are full of nothing but physics text books and all other forms of scholarship are looked down upon. |
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but i did point out that you can't 'ad hominem a book' |
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Frankly after misusing 'ergo' and 'ad hominem' I'd abandon using latin at all if I were you |
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Having said that, I shouldn't have bothered to reply to this seriously as the post is just a trolling abuse of english. |
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In extended form, my point was this. 1) Certain people here are moving towards the argument that the bible is irrelevant because there are many differing interpretations which are due to such things as the bible being written many years after the events it claims to describe. 2) This is untrue because the bible being written many years after the events it claims to describe does not mean these events did not in fact occur. 3) In fact a much better counter-argument to the events described in the bible being true is that some of them defy the laws of physics. Oh joyous rapture! |
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I really don't intend to get into a defense of the bible arguement either, I just like offering other perspectives on things. The only real good arguement I've heard so far is from JonnyBGood about the bible defying the laws of physics. There are plenty of good and interesting arguements both for and against the truth of the bible. In the end it is up to you to make your own choice about the validity of any spiritual text. My only challenge to this group is to do your own research and to not to rely totally on the words of others, or what you see on TV. While these sources are sometimes right, other times they are most certainly wrong. Only by careful and honest study can the truth be determined. |
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I especially liked "Is it folly to be wise or not?", "Which first--beasts or man?" and "Righteous live?" "Do you answer a fool?" is pretty cool as well considering the fact the contradictory phrases are right next to each other. |
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Dueteronomy 3 "When brothers live together and one of them dies without a son, the widow of the deceased shall not marry anyone outside the family; but her husband's brother shall go to her and perform the duty of a brother-in-law by marrying her. Leviticus 20:21 And if a man shall take his brother's wife, it is an unclean thing: he hath uncovered his brother's nakedness; they shall be childless. Leviticus applies regardless of the brother being dead or alive. It is an absolute prohibition. The reason these verses are irreconcilable is because they are two different codes of laws written at different times dealing with entirely different socio-economic situations. I admire your suicidally courageous audacity in claiming that the two verses of the bible which split the Western world and lead to the deaths of thousands are now suddenly reconcilable. However your glib point is unconvincing, naive and incorrect. |
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I see no reason why the bible being full of contradictions should effect someone's faith. HOWEVER it is full of contradictions and it is offensive in the extreme to pretend that it is not or dismiss the fact that it is when people legitimately point it out. I'm sure that Jehova will happilly admit it in heaven |
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the bible isnt a history book its a collection of stories written by those who could write after hearing stories handed down thro a fair few generations, was written initially in 100AD (.. you were lucky to reach 50 in those days)
it was a guide thro story of how to lead a better life, few people read it way back then, it was read aloud, and how those who read the stories interpreted and translated those stories lead to the changes. some monks - dunno when, rearranged our calendar a few hundred years ago and got the math wrong, so basing any dates in it now has to be done on the old timeline then add some years. if you have ever read the witnessstatements of two people in the same place watching an accident and wondered if they were watching the same thing ... now base that on the stories that are written in the bible, ofc there are errors. it doesnt make it a bad book, but imo people should realise that to live a life to religous text without wavering should not be done. As a general guide, used as an example .. not a diagram of how to live, it stands up pretty well. |
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You however are no scholar. |
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If you are not basing your moral syatem on the teachings of a digest of self contradictory and absurd rules, does it not follow that you basing it on something external to the bible? And does it not follow from that that as a moral guide the bible is essentially useless? |
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1) the bible is self contradictory 2) the bible contains rules you ignore 3) in order to ignore some but not others you must be making a judgement 4) that judgement is based on something outside the bible 5) you don't need the bible |
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2) is correct. 3) is correct. 4) is incorrect. 5) is incorrect. PS. Sorry for deleting my posts. I thought they were unhelpful as I cannot be bothered to spend time on them to clarify what I mean. Frankly, I'd only get neg-repped if I did. |
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what inside the bible, new or old testament, makes you think you can openly flaunt many of the rules contained within it?
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Boogster, does God love you?
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If God is so great why didn't he write his book himself?
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Because Moses asked kindly.
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Why replace your old posts with shit?
You were so close to making a few good points, but you didn't :( |
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Just got a bit infuriated. Not an uncommon occurrence in discussions such as these, I'm afraid.
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I don't see the bible contradicting itself that much, almost everything is about respecting eachother
Even those 'contradicting' examples about taking care of your brothers wife The only reason that I don't believe is that it contradicts to much with reality I shall give a few examples.. It's not so much the stories itself that I doubt but the basic idea of a 'caring' god, while it doesn't shows And setting certain rules that go against human nature We 'are' killing machines, and we are build for sex, make no mistake about it We are fkin monkey's for crying out loud, why can't we simply shag a stranger senseless According to the bible we are not even allowed to grab a neutral object because someone else tagged it "That stone is mine, don't touch or you will go to hell" I don't even understand why god wants some people to put glasses on their heads to make them see like their supposed to Does that add a certain flavour to their lives that is needed in their test? It doesn't makes much sense to me Yes, I don't know what started all this, how earth was created, or what the deal is with the big bang if that even happened but my lack of knowledge doesn't justify believing in a good god A god that tests the creations that he created himself, and gave a predestined path, directly or indirectly A god that even tests religious old people by letting them live like a plant in pain and suffering for 20 years, before dieing an weeklong painfull death In a state where they cannot affect anything, but somehow will make them regret their non existant sins God works in mysterious ways? What is 20 years of pain and suffering when they get an eternity of [something] afterwards? Sorry, my logic fails me here, but if god exists he will surely forgive my ignorance, caused by the inferior brain that he gave me I don't think even the pope can explain this god thingy to me I know that I will have to think towards 'free will' and 'selfless love' if I want to understand it Feel free to try and explain all this if you think your know something I don't |
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vampire lestat's question was a good one and you have not answered it (nor have you answered my original point) you can not treat logic as a help yourself buffet |
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I have been spending way too much time fighting with my wife. A juicy little Bible discussion is going on and my brand of illogical nonsense nowhere to be seen. Going to have to change that.
The Bible must be taken literally provided you have the context and the translation right. The reason most of the Bible does not make sense to most reasoning people is because many of the events that happened are supernatural or “Of God” and therefore do not fit the man made molds of science and logic. A comedian once said “the Bible has got a lot of wine drinking and then a bunch of stuff you just can’t believe, and usually the wine drinking comes right before the unbelievable stuff.” If you don’t want to believe the Bible then don’t. If you want to debunk the Bible then best of luck to you. Neither the average believer or Christian Scholars can be convinced that the Bible is not mostly true. The reason I say mostly is because not all of it either can be proven or disproven or has not been found to be proven yet. |
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