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-   -   Council strike, inflation and living cost (https://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=196745)

G.K Zhukov 17 Jul 2008 01:03

Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Some of the people working for the local councils in Great Britain are now on strike.

What struck me is the offer that they seem to have been given, 2.45% wage rise. Compared to inflation, probably going to be higher than 3%, this seems to be a pay cut in term of real wages. How does the people react to that?

I also have a question regarding the wages, for that of the teaching assistants: 15,530 £ a year. Is it possible to live on that?

And to those who who have experience working with teaching assistants, what sorts of labour do these positions attract? (hi TK)

Source:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7508717.stm

furball 17 Jul 2008 08:03

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
They should get over it. The same is happening to much of the private sector, who on top of that have to worry about redundancies and 'down-sizing'. The public sector is a cushy place to work in and Labour have turned it (in particular local government) into a gravy train for those not good enough to get to managerial level in the private sector.

Of course there are exceptions and some areas of the public sector are underpaid in comparison to others that are overpaid. However, the public sector has seen a huge rise in pay under Labour with no trade-off in terms of reduced job security. In fact, they've never had it so good.

All Systems Go 17 Jul 2008 09:23

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Another decade, another recession.

All Systems Go 17 Jul 2008 09:23

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by furball (Post 3151372)
They should get over it. The same is happening to much of the private sector, who on top of that have to worry about redundancies and 'down-sizing'. The public sector is a cushy place to work in and Labour have turned it (in particular local government) into a gravy train for those not good enough to get to managerial level in the private sector.

Of course there are exceptions and some areas of the public sector are underpaid in comparison to others that are overpaid. However, the public sector has seen a huge rise in pay under Labour with no trade-off in terms of reduced job security. In fact, they've never had it so good.

Would you support the strike then if it were just the people who were being underpaid?

All Systems Go 17 Jul 2008 09:27

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov (Post 3151363)
I also have a question regarding the wages, for that of the teaching assistants: 15,530 £ a year. Is it possible to live on that?

It depends where you live really and what you mean by 'live'.

In the Welsh Valleys, I would say yes. In London, I would say no. But I don't think anywhere in the UK you would be 'comfortable' on £15k.

G.K Zhukov 17 Jul 2008 11:36

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by furball (Post 3151372)
They should get over it. The same is happening to much of the private sector, who on top of that have to worry about redundancies and 'down-sizing'. The public sector is a cushy place to work in and Labour have turned it (in particular local government) into a gravy train for those not good enough to get to managerial level in the private sector.

Of course there are exceptions and some areas of the public sector are underpaid in comparison to others that are overpaid. However, the public sector has seen a huge rise in pay under Labour with no trade-off in terms of reduced job security. In fact, they've never had it so good.

Do people in the private sector really take paycuts?
Isnt getting 2.45% wage rise when inflation is above 3% a pay cut?
How much have public sector employees gotten under Labour? (but are council employes not under the councils, and not under the state, and so does really Labour holds any power/influence on the setting on wages?)

Tietäjä 17 Jul 2008 11:47

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov (Post 3151398)
Isnt getting 2.45% wage rise when inflation is above 3% a pay cut?

It's a nominal pay rise. One of the reasons why a degree of inflation could be claimed to be useful to an economy is the fact that it brings real flexibility through nominal illusion. Technically, yes, if inflation's above your pay rise level, it's a cut, but most people don't think about it like that. People would be far more pissed off if the inflation was zero and they'd take a 0.55% down instead. Is it the same thing? Arguably. People occasionally take pay cuts without realizing they're actually taking pay cuts - they might be thinking they're in fact getting pay rises.

And some of the time the continuous pressure to request pay rises with no actual real background for it - no increased productivity per labour - eventually excerts upwards pressure on price development.

Quote:

Originally Posted by furball
The public sector is a cushy place to work in and Labour have turned it (in particular local government) into a gravy train for those not good enough to get to managerial level in the private sector.

Of course there are exceptions and some areas of the public sector are underpaid in comparison to others that are overpaid

It might be that the situation there is a bit alike to how it's here. Public sector is somewhat underpaid (in compared to private sector), but one could argue that it's not so on terms broader than just simple pay roll numbers. Essentially, through lower wages, people in public sectors are paying a premium for the "cushy place to work".


Would it be possible for you or kal to answer my enquiry? It's in your private message box.

Tomkat 17 Jul 2008 11:49

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by furball (Post 3151372)
They should get over it.

However, the public sector has seen a huge rise in pay under Labour with no trade-off in terms of reduced job security. In fact, they've never had it so good.

This isn't really true at all. The reason for the strikes (as with the teacher strikes back in May) is because the pay increase per annum (%) has been below average for a long time now. There's a significant difference between the average pay for public sector and private sector.

furball 17 Jul 2008 19:05

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by All Systems Go (Post 3151383)
Would you support the strike then if it were just the people who were being underpaid?

If the individual underpaid sectors went on strike, yes. But £15k/year seems perfectly reasonable for a teaching assistant given that a similar job in finance in the City of London pays £16-18k.

Quote:

Originally Posted by All Systems Go
It depends where you live really and what you mean by 'live'.

In the Welsh Valleys, I would say yes. In London, I would say no. But I don't think anywhere in the UK you would be 'comfortable' on £15k.

Of course it depends, but anyone who wants to live independently and make a career out of being a teaching assistant is a fool. It's not a valid career option.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov
Do people in the private sector really take paycuts?
Isnt getting 2.45% wage rise when inflation is above 3% a pay cut?
How much have public sector employees gotten under Labour? (but are council employes not under the councils, and not under the state, and so does really Labour holds any power/influence on the setting on wages?)

No, people in the private sector get made redundant, a much more efficient way of cutting the wage bill. I'm not going to go to the effort of checking figures that I vaguely remember but pay in local government (a big bug-bear of mine) has increased by 30-50% in real terms since 1997.

A pay cut is a reduction in pay. If your company's not growing when there's positive inflation (i.e. a recession) then where is the company supposed to find the money to increase pay from?

Council employees are employeed by the local council. The council gets some money from council tax and some as a grant from central government. You may have noticed the council tax controversies in recent years - these are because the government has increased the duties of councils without increasing the amount of money it gives to them :salute:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tietäjä
It might be that the situation there is a bit alike to how it's here. Public sector is somewhat underpaid (in compared to private sector), but one could argue that it's not so on terms broader than just simple pay roll numbers. Essentially, through lower wages, people in public sectors are paying a premium for the "cushy place to work".

That's really how it should be, in my eyes. However, Labour's pumped so much money into the public sector (through increases in public spending) that the premium for a cushy job is making the public sector a better place to work in, financially, than the same level of job in the private sector.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomkat
This isn't really true at all. The reason for the strikes (as with the teacher strikes back in May) is because the pay increase per annum (%) has been below average for a long time now. There's a significant difference between the average pay for public sector and private sector.

I will accept your point on the education sector itself. Lecturers in particular are underpaid, as are teachers. However, Unison's strikes have covered the energy, healthcare, higher education, local government, police staff, transport, and water and environment industries - surely you're not arguing that all of these are underpaid?

G.K Zhukov 17 Jul 2008 20:44

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by furball
If the individual underpaid sectors went on strike, yes. But £15k/year seems perfectly reasonable for a teaching assistant given that a similar job in finance in the City of London pays £16-18k.

You mean secretary work or something like that? Doesnt all jobs in City pay better than that?
Quote:

Originally Posted by furball
Of course it depends, but anyone who wants to live independently and make a career out of being a teaching assistant is a fool. It's not a valid career option.

Just like over here. However, what is the point with having teaching assistants if these positions are only filled with people who are simply not qualified (nor motivated) to do the job? If we expect assistants to do vital work in the upbringing of kids, either in school or kindergarten, what's the point in recruiting people who are not up for it? Not to mention the price that this can cost in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by furball
A pay cut is a reduction in pay. If your company's not growing when there's positive inflation (i.e. a recession) then where is the company supposed to find the money to increase pay from?

According to the rules of capitalism; increase your prizes! (It always surprises me how few people "get" capitalism)

lokken 17 Jul 2008 20:54

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
I have every sympathy for local councils, who are underfunded and often lack the people with the expertise to do a good job. Generally, they make the best of a bad lot and many people who work there are very dedicated to the cause. Those who are striking have no appreciation whatsoever of the position of local government and that actually, they are fortunate to be in a workplace that is relatively less stressful than a lot of jobs on equivalent pay.

I disagree with their strike action.

roadrunner_0 17 Jul 2008 21:57

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
as a local govt. worker who voted for the strike, im going to put my 2p in :)

i dont know where you are getting your figures from furball, but i have worked for durham county council since 2000, and i assure you in that time we have never had a large pay rise, evidenced by the fact that this is our 3rd strike in those 8 years. In those 8 years my place of work has endured budget cut after budget cut, in fact, my department had to make savings of a cool million last year, consequently we lost (iirc) 20k from our programming budget and 12 hours of staff time - yet are still expected to do more work to get more people through the doors so that the budget fairy looks elsewhere next year for its ritual sacrifice on the altar of efficiency. another consequence of these on-going budget cust is that training budgets has evapourated, and whereas in the private sector you will get a lot of promotion from within, this simply isnt viable within some councils now, as due to post restrictions (that they either cant or wont re-draw) the most skilled people for the jobs simply cant apply for them - and i know from experience that going for this kind of training yourself can cost easily upwards of a grand, and for some of the professional qualification you are easily staring at a bill for 3k - how do you afford that on 15k a year?

now then, looking at your nice headline figure of 15k a year there... I know for a fact that teaching assistants do not start on that figure outside london (dont know what the london weighting for them is though so that figure might apply to them) and in the council that i work for, a teaching assistant would also have to be getting supplements (being responsible for Special Educational Needs pupils, after school clubs etc) to reach that figure - and the basic wage is (ballpark figures, not sure of the exact scale without looking it up) a starting salary of 11k rising to 14.5k (you would have to have 5 years in the job to reach that top figure though.


overall the government are once again in a hole of their own making - they have pissed away funds for years and years, as usual, the people at the top have insane salaries compared to 'the little people' (for instance, im sure that looking down the barrel of a 2.5% pay rise is a lot less of a hardship when you are getting 100k a year, which is what our chief exec is on) and overall, there is no central government leadership to address issues that have been being raised for years now without sucess - hence strike.

unfortunately i for one believe that the unions simply dont have the will to pull it off, they will cave before the end of the summer, possibly after another 1 or 2 day strike, after getting us another .2% on top and call it a victory, which it isnt. local government needs a full review of funding, and unfortunately, more funds need to be diverted. Because no matter how they paint it, the problem isnt going to go away

Zar 17 Jul 2008 22:27

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
I don't like what i wrote. Seems a bit harsh.

furball 17 Jul 2008 22:53

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0 (Post 3151450)
as a local govt. worker who voted for the strike, im going to put my 2p in :)

i dont know where you are getting your figures from furball, but i have worked for durham county council since 2000, and i assure you in that time we have never had a large pay rise, evidenced by the fact that this is our 3rd strike in those 8 years. In those 8 years my place of work has endured budget cut after budget cut, in fact, my department had to make savings of a cool million last year, consequently we lost (iirc) 20k from our programming budget and 12 hours of staff time - yet are still expected to do more work to get more people through the doors so that the budget fairy looks elsewhere next year for its ritual sacrifice on the altar of efficiency.

I'm going to tentatively say that libraries aren't the greatest of priorities for local council spending. Not that it should be that way, of course.


Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
overall the government are once again in a hole of their own making - they have pissed away funds for years and years, as usual, the people at the top have insane salaries compared to 'the little people' (for instance, im sure that looking down the barrel of a 2.5% pay rise is a lot less of a hardship when you are getting 100k a year, which is what our chief exec is on) and overall, there is no central government leadership to address issues that have been being raised for years now without sucess - hence strike.

I agree with all of this. The Government has saddled the country with a huge amount of debt to pay for its spending, don't even get me started on PFI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
unfortunately i for one believe that the unions simply dont have the will to pull it off, they will cave before the end of the summer, possibly after another 1 or 2 day strike, after getting us another .2% on top and call it a victory, which it isnt. local government needs a full review of funding, and unfortunately, more funds need to be diverted. Because no matter how they paint it, the problem isnt going to go away

The Government's much more likely to make concessions on stupid employment rights that the unions are also after. If Labour give in to the pay rises that the unions are after then they have even less change of winning the next election.

Yahwe 17 Jul 2008 23:12

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
stop indulging the spastic communist

roadrunner_0 17 Jul 2008 23:23

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by furball (Post 3151461)
I'm going to tentatively say that libraries aren't the greatest of priorities for local council spending. Not that it should be that way, of course.

for what its worth i agree, but we are paid within the same scale as other workers, and when you have various ****nut ministers coming out with stupid comments like last years 'if you close libraries we will take control out of your hands' - meaning that often authorities have been forces to keep open under-performing places, thus diverting funds (your from crook iirc, imagine, bishop has 2 libraries, 1 of which is considered to be in an area of high social deprevation - so even though its riddled by asbestos, and the kids regularly kick the windows out, they cant close it, even though the other one is less than a mile away, i mean WTF)


oh, and yahwe - its a popular thread generating more replies than the rest of GD tonight, why dont you just go away

roadrunner_0 17 Jul 2008 23:26

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by furball (Post 3151461)
The Government's much more likely to make concessions on stupid employment rights that the unions are also after. If Labour give in to the pay rises that the unions are after then they have even less change of winning the next election.

i would say more chance of winning actually - remember, a large percentage of the people they are pissing off at the moment are their heartland voters

furball 17 Jul 2008 23:39

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0 (Post 3151464)
for what its worth i agree, but we are paid within the same scale as other workers, and when you have various ****nut ministers coming out with stupid comments like last years 'if you close libraries we will take control out of your hands' - meaning that often authorities have been forces to keep open under-performing places, thus diverting funds (your from crook iirc, imagine, bishop has 2 libraries, 1 of which is considered to be in an area of high social deprevation - so even though its riddled by asbestos, and the kids regularly kick the windows out, they cant close it, even though the other one is less than a mile away, i mean WTF)

In the library world what counts as an underperforming library?


And yeah, you remember correctly - half of my family is from Crook/Hunwick :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0
i would say more chance of winning actually - remember, a large percentage of the people they are pissing off at the moment are their heartland voters

No, you see, that's the thing. There's only one thing that matters to the heartland voters and that's their pay packet - just look at the furore over the 10p tax band. The unions have been battling back and forth on employment rights since the 1960s/70s but they don't really mean a great deal to most voters since they don't learn about what they mean until they actually try to use them.

roadrunner_0 17 Jul 2008 23:54

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
but thats what i mean - most swing voters have already turned away from labour - lets face it, they are going to lose the next general election, its simply a matter of how badly they lose now. by pissing off heartland voters (he 10p tax, low pay rises, massive redundancies that arent their fault but people will blame them anyway) they are going to lose former safe seats (with a bit of luck our majority will even drop below 10k finally!!!)


oh, and although crook is a shithole like bishop, hunwick is really nice, i have friends there


underperforming: (top of my head, havent looked at teh stats in months) our flagship branch (durham city obviously innit) and a ratio of 77ish books issued per hour of opening, and my branch has an issue rate of 50ish, however, my branch is considered marginal, because the government have targets even for book issues (can you believe) and we have more staff than other branches who issue 50ish books an hour - but we have other things on site (art gallery, tourist information center, theatre) but because the govt. only looks at manhours and books issues, we fight for funding.

the other branch that i was on about issues 23 books an hour, if they closed them and we got even 50% of their custom down to us, that would put us in the moderate performers band (the bands really are that close) and our funding would be safe. but if they closed the other branch in a socially depreved area (even though the majority of its users arent off the socially deprived concil estate) they would lose a tick box from the targets list, and if you lose too many tick boxes, you lose funding

furball 18 Jul 2008 06:52

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by roadrunner_0 (Post 3151467)
oh, and although crook is a shithole like bishop, hunwick is really nice, i have friends there

The posh bit of the family lives in Hunwick with a lovely view over the moors, the rest lived on a street in Crook with what I swear is a 1 in 5 incline.

Tietäjä 18 Jul 2008 12:15

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by furball (Post 3151466)
In the library world what counts as an underperforming library?

Library is easy.

How about an underperforming Ministry or Police Department?

G.K Zhukov 18 Jul 2008 12:25

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
I suspect your not entirely convinced of the greatness of New Public Managment, roadrunner :)

roadrunner_0 18 Jul 2008 13:15

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
you could say that :)

roadrunner_0 18 Jul 2008 20:07

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
i cant afford a drug habit :(

G.K Zhukov 18 Jul 2008 21:02

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue (Post 3151492)
Its worth mentioning that I only started climbing rapidly up the ladder after acquiring a drugs habit.

A drugs habbit on 12.300£ ??

Yahwe 19 Jul 2008 03:32

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Toccata & Fugue (Post 3151491)
Basically low level public sector workers have been shat one since the dawn of time, mainly by their much better paid senior colleagues.

In my first job I worked in Central London for the civil service and got £12,300 (after substantial London weighting) which even 7 years ago was a bizarre insult of a salary. Let's bear in mind that I was:

a) a graduate
b) pretty keen since it was my first job
c) by the time I left I was doing the job of 3 people.

I asked for a promotion after a year (which would have gotten me the princely sum of £16,000) and they said no, so I had no choice but to leave.

Meanwhile a single mother working there, who's child had severe learning difficulties, got routinely told off for occasionally leaving 5 minutes early, despite holding down a full time job, which she could hardly be expected leave.

So anyone who wants to stay in their job has no choice but to strike. Just saying "they should get over it" is neither here nor there. Paycut aside, anyone on that sort of salary who doesn't fight for the best salary they can get in their job is a sucker.

ware as in be

Tietäjä 19 Jul 2008 11:51

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov (Post 3151496)
A drugs habbit on 12.300£ ??

Are you saying there's something wrong in drug habits?

G.K Zhukov 19 Jul 2008 21:41

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tietäjä (Post 3151519)
Are you saying there's something wrong in drug habits?

More how he could possibly fund a drugs habbit when living of 12300 quid a year! (everyone knows drugs are bad, mkay)

TheShadowMan 22 Jul 2008 21:48

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
just like to point out the % payrise depends on the salary its worked out from. eg if u get 3% raise which equates to 4000 its a hell of a lot different from getting the same percentage raise and only gettin 1250. With the higher amount you can adjust your spending to come in line with an imaginary lower amount and save the difference in a high interest account (beating inflation).

drug habits rock btw, but you may in need one to understand my logic here.

Yahwe 22 Jul 2008 21:59

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShadowMan (Post 3151635)
just like to point out the % payrise depends on the salary its worked out from. eg if u get 3% raise which equates to 4000 its a hell of a lot different from getting the same percentage raise and only gettin 1250. With the higher amount you can adjust your spending to come in line with an imaginary lower amount and save the difference in a high interest account (beating inflation).

drug habits rock btw, but you may in need one to understand my logic here.

you'd need drugs to understand your maths

pablissimo 22 Jul 2008 23:31

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShadowMan (Post 3151635)
just like to point out the % payrise depends on the salary its worked out from. eg if u get 3% raise which equates to 4000 its a hell of a lot different from getting the same percentage raise and only gettin 1250. With the higher amount you can adjust your spending to come in line with an imaginary lower amount and save the difference in a high interest account (beating inflation).

drug habits rock btw, but you may in need one to understand my logic here.

That's pretty fundamentally wrong

Tomkat 23 Jul 2008 10:03

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheShadowMan (Post 3151635)
just like to point out the % payrise depends on the salary its worked out from. eg if u get 3% raise which equates to 4000 its a hell of a lot different from getting the same percentage raise and only gettin 1250. With the higher amount you can adjust your spending to come in line with an imaginary lower amount and save the difference in a high interest account (beating inflation).

The whole point of pay rises corresponding to inflation is that you can afford the same stuff now as you will be able to in 10/20/30 years. You aren't really receiving more money (in relative terms of what you can afford to buy).

Zh|l 1 Aug 2008 02:55

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Frankly, work sucks right now.

Losing the 10p band on tax has hurt alot. Im losing twice the money now on income tax.

Then add on rising costs in council tax and energy. Hell, people HAVE seen the 35% price hike in British Gas right? Crazy. How the hell are people supposed to pay more taxes and then pay more for living costs (water, gas, electricity, council tax)? It's really annoying :(

Means I have to basically search for a new job as I'm only on 12K a year and all these price hikes are bursting my bubble of financial dependability (and thats without a mortgage to worry about)

Antoninus Pius 1 Aug 2008 17:48

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Why would any government place the tax burden on its electorate. It's Voodoo Economics. Cianara meine rougesten.

roadrunner_0 1 Aug 2008 18:59

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
if you are with british gas, either get on their click 5 or their fixed tariff rate now as they are their best deals

G.K Zhukov 2 Aug 2008 11:55

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Antoninus Pius (Post 3152323)
Why would any government place the tax burden on its electorate. It's Voodoo Economics. Cianara meine rougesten.

Couse the real power is Mr Capital, so the politicians can't place taxes on industry.

Antoninus Pius 2 Aug 2008 15:15

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov (Post 3152357)
Couse the real power is Mr Capital, so the politicians can't place taxes on industry.

Well yes I understand that but in retrospect I was not clear enough. I rather meant that Gordon Brown becoming an anti Robin Hood and stealing from the poor to give to the rich(er) is not going to get his party reelected.

Zar 2 Aug 2008 21:40

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Antoninus Pius (Post 3152372)
Well yes I understand that but in retrospect I was not clear enough. I rather meant that Gordon Brown becoming an anti Robin Hood and stealing from the poor to give to the rich(er) is not going to get his party reelected.

This is a common misconception. Abolishing the 10p tax band has a negligible effect on the rich.

G.K Zhukov 4 Aug 2008 10:41

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Antoninus Pius (Post 3152372)
Well yes I understand that but in retrospect I was not clear enough. I rather meant that Gordon Brown becoming an anti Robin Hood and stealing from the poor to give to the rich(er) is not going to get his party reelected.

It's true that its not going to help him a bit to get reelected. Interestingly enough, even his and his parties self-preservation, is'nt strong enough compared to his willingness to obey his real masters. Same times happens right now here in Norway too, when our so called "red-green" government (neither red nor green, sadly) are set to loose the next election couse they have failed to be something else than simple beurocrats serving Mr. Capital.

Ste 7 Aug 2008 00:05

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by furball (Post 3151461)
I agree with all of this. The Government has saddled the country with a huge amount of debt to pay for its spending, don't even get me started on PFI.

Can I get you started on PFI?

There's no way new schools or hospitals would have been built without it.
The lifecycle of the existing buildings was long gone (the maintenance bill alone for discontinued plant would be in the millions per year per hospital)
The problems have arisen where the local councils/trusts have had no commercial awareness and signed up to awful contracts with no performance measurement or cost control.

(I hate myself :()

Tomkat 9 Aug 2008 19:56

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
He said don't get him started.

... You won't like him when he's mad...

dda 10 Aug 2008 16:19

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by G.K Zhukov (Post 3152357)
Couse the real power is Mr Capital, so the politicians can't place taxes on industry.

In the US, corporate tax rates are higher than individual tax rates, plus the dividends paid to stock holders is also taxable. Double win for the government.

Mzyxptlk 10 Aug 2008 16:29

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
What's even more interesting is where the tax money goes to once the government has gotten their hands on it.

G.K Zhukov 11 Aug 2008 01:36

Re: Council strike, inflation and living cost
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dda (Post 3153052)
In the US, corporate tax rates are higher than individual tax rates, plus the dividends paid to stock holders is also taxable. Double win for the government.

And a double win for those of us who can seek out information on the intarweb!! :)

Corporate income tax

Main article: Corporate tax in the United States

In the United States, the federal corporate income rate for the year 2006 varies between 15 and 39% depending on taxable income. But since 1999, when Treasury announced the "check the box" system many corporations can elect to be treated as a pass-through entity, thereby skipping the entity level 35% tax and having all income pass through to the shareholders. This is the tax treatment that the much discussed "S" corporations receive; but now many more types of state-law corporations may avoid double taxation by "checking the box". Dividends are also subject to a lower rate of income tax in the United States. The U.S. corporate tax rate is ranked as the second highest statutory rate among the OECD countries (the U.S. average rate of 39.3 ranks just behind Japan's 39.5 and well above the OECD average of 28.7).[27] However, the U.S also has the greatest number of corporate tax loopholes of any OECD member,[28] allowing many corporations to achieve a lower effective tax rate than the published rates.


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