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-   -   R72 statsmafia stats (https://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=201320)

BloodyButcher 6 May 2017 02:13

R72 statsmafia stats
 
http://speedgame.planetarion.com/manual.pl?page=stats

BloodyButcher 6 May 2017 02:13

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
comments, whine, and bribes please.

booji 6 May 2017 12:29

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
These stats seem to be pretty defensive; several 4 ship build options which is pretty unusual these days. Not necessarily something I personally am against but I think most people are.

Xan fi without any team might be quite difficult to play with 2 ships out initiative it from above (peg and ghost). Since neither ter nor xan have any other anti fi you ensure there will be loads of both around. Xan fi is therefore basically relegated to a fake only role. I suspect you have tried to compensate for this by ensuring there is very little ally def anti fi but I am not sure how far that goes against a fleet with no team; surely ingal normally just needs to put a few of either in the way and no matter how big the xan fi is it has to recall?
see: http://speedgame.planetarion.com/bca...bygyo4yszzughf

An additional problem seems to me the uneven distribution of emp as a result of having etd and cat co both teaming together with emp. Ter/zik de has no emp so has a similar problem to xan fi (though their armour perhaps mitigates it). This is that if a xan builds spectres it is really difficult to hit as the spectre out inits both de fleets, and similar for ter with the wyvern, and zik with the rogue.

Finally the emp does not look finished. The poor widow gets empd almost as badly as SKs. There are big disparities within one race's fleet. So why does the tula emp the dragon at 145% and the wyvern at 176%? There is similar in many others. Is it intentional? EDIT I dont want this to be taken to mean I don't like varied emp resistances, I do. But I would prefer they were varied between races rather than internally unless there is reason (like making an emp ship that does not fire first have higher resistance so it is more likely to get a shot in). Hence I ask for the reasoning.

BloodyButcher 6 May 2017 17:05

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Removed the T2(was DE) of Spectre, now its left as a useless/meaningless ships that has to be changed/removed.

Maybe Rogues need to be changed? not sure.

booji 6 May 2017 18:49

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Not being cloaked rogues and wyverns are less of a problem for de than the spectre I would think. It is not something you need to get around entirely either. There is nothing wrong with having an option whose strength is defensive rather than offensive.

Kaiba 7 May 2017 17:33

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Zik is ridiculously OP.

How have these stats got to being put on the speed game server?

BloodyButcher 7 May 2017 17:41

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiba (Post 3256477)
Zik is ridiculously OP.

How have these stats got to being put on the speed game server?

Theyve even been put into a real round, deal with it.

But yeah, good zik is getting OPed, they were kinda weak previously.

Kaiba 7 May 2017 17:45

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
There is OP and there is Terran ships with Xan ints.

Your set falls into the latter.

I am personally really dissapointed that this set has made it to bring used, it makes a mockery of the hard work other stat makers have put into balancing stats and trying to please all.

But then again... it will make my rd71 look even better so carry on I guess. I assume we are aiming for a 300 player round now?

BloodyButcher 7 May 2017 17:48

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Yes, i was quite shocked when they were first picked myself.
But due to the race spread being half decent, i wouldnt mind seeing em be a little more fine tuned, especialy the xan/etd FR vs ter/zik DE interaction

Jintao 7 May 2017 18:00

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
i'm not sure who told BB they would be used. I said he could present his option. I also told him the set needed alot of work.

BloodyButcher 7 May 2017 19:55

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jintao (Post 3256481)
i'm not sure who told BB they would be used. I said he could present his option. I also told him the set needed alot of work.

Oh your too easy aswell.
Did i say they would be used this round? :rolleyes:

Mzyxptlk 7 May 2017 21:03

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodyButcher (Post 3256487)
Oh your too easy aswell.
Did i say they would be used this round? :rolleyes:

**** off ****.

Kaiba 7 May 2017 21:05

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodyButcher (Post 3256480)
Yes, i was quite shocked when they were first picked myself.
But due to the race spread being half decent, i wouldnt mind seeing em be a little more fine tuned, especialy the xan/etd FR vs ter/zik DE interaction

Fine tuned??

The need scrapping. They are borderline ridiculous

BloodyButcher 7 May 2017 21:33

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=201003

To direct you to the original thread of those stats.
Yes, theyve even been put into a real round, R63, deal with it.

Kaiba 7 May 2017 21:50

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodyButcher (Post 3256493)
http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=201003

To direct you to the original thread of those stats.
Yes, theyve even been put into a real round, R63, deal with it.

You just linked to a thread where all the links in it show different stats.

Also this set (if it was rd 63's) got pillored by everyone who looked at it. INFACT it looks like one of the last few sets approved by apocco before jintao took over, showing that appoco didn't care about the game or stats anymore and jintao was right to take over.

BloodyButcher 7 May 2017 21:58

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Ofc, the link in that thread is old, and it links to one of the PA servers, wich get used by new people to create stats every round.

The race spread was decent.
Faceless/BF went FR
p3nguins went DE
BowS went CO

The interaction between the "strat options" need to be looked at, and one of the big steps was to remove spectre T2 DE.
CO did own DE that round, but both suffered vs FR.

Jintao 7 May 2017 22:05

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
The original feedback on Tia's R63 set (haven't read it)

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=201003

CBA 8 May 2017 05:28

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiba (Post 3256479)
There is OP and there is Terran ships with Xan ints.

Your set falls into the latter.

I am personally really dissapointed that this set has made it to bring used, it makes a mockery of the hard work other stat makers have put into balancing stats and trying to please all.

But then again... it will make my rd71 look even better so carry on I guess. I assume we are aiming for a 300 player round now?

Don't Be such an ignorant little scallywag !!!

If you have some critique then critique but my goodness you little negative ballbag

Give the man some space.

Kaiba 8 May 2017 08:07

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by CBA (Post 3256507)
Don't Be such an ignorant little scallywag !!!

If you have some critique then critique but my goodness you little negative ballbag

Give the man some space.

If I was to critique I would be writing 1000 words + and I don't have time for that. This set is one of the worst proposed ever and I gave seen some awful ones down the years.

The fleet make ups don't work, there is way too many unbalanced ships and in general the effs and AC/DC are piss poor all over

BloodyButcher 8 May 2017 11:14

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Clipper normal init 7 -> steal init 20
Cutter damage 64 -> 60
Spectre init 6 -> 10
Tycoon removed T2 DE
Dreadnaught added T2 DE
Thiefs T1 BS -> Thief T1 CO
Recluse T1 CO -> Recluse T1 BS


Added ship Scarab

BloodyButcher 9 May 2017 08:19

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Cutlass TI FI -> T1 FR, T2 FI
Corsair T1 FR, T2 CO -> T1 CO
Roach T1 DE -> T1 FR
Tarantula T1 BS, T2 FR -> T1 BS, T2 DE

Kaiba 9 May 2017 15:46

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Have you done your emp effs yet or just faffing with targeting still?

Papadoc 9 May 2017 16:15

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Here is my raw set that was worked on previously and shut down by jintao :P


Note: Xan is strong and as usual its hard to give ETD an identity. I think i'd like to lower init on two De ships one in pod class and one out of pod class to reign it back in. maybe just one, whose to say!

I have time to work on these the next three days and I'm just looking to gauge general interest, not hi-jack the thread or anything



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

BloodyButcher 9 May 2017 16:34

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiba (Post 3256537)
Have you done your emp effs yet or just faffing with targeting still?

EMP is untouched from the original make, more or less.
Jintao claims FR is still overpowered, and perhaps the first approach to doing anything to EMP eff should be nerphing the resistance of xan/etd FR.

BloodyButcher 9 May 2017 16:47

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by booji (Post 3256417)
Finally the emp does not look finished. The poor widow gets empd almost as badly as SKs. There are big disparities within one race's fleet. So why does the tula emp the dragon at 145% and the wyvern at 176%? There is similar in many others. Is it intentional? EDIT I dont want this to be taken to mean I don't like varied emp resistances, I do. But I would prefer they were varied between races rather than internally unless there is reason (like making an emp ship that does not fire first have higher resistance so it is more likely to get a shot in). Hence I ask for the reasoning.

Im pretty sure there was a well thought idea behind the emp being "uneven"
The initial universe ship ratio was: 11,5% xan FI, 15,5% cat/etd CO, 17% xan/etd FR, 12% ter/zik DE, 7% zik/cat CR, 16,5% ter/etd BS, and 20,5% out of roiding class def ships.
http://beta.planetarion.com/history/...?id=9&round=63

So it would be one way of adding something to the set based on what the statsmaker thought would be the most built ships.

CR being less picked, maybe the counter was to make the most built BS ship being weaker vs EMP? If so, giving Tycoon/Wyvern crap EMP resistance was a good call imho.

Kaiba 9 May 2017 17:17

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Ofc FR is OP. It has 9 ships, only equaled by De. De has 6 'kill' ships (not emp/steal) that target it t1. Fr has 1 and it can't make ally ETA. And it gets hugged by Recluse. That is a really basic flaw in the stats.

If you believe your targeting is 90% done, and your ac/dc is almost done then sort your emp effs so the calc will actually show the issues. Atm you have some emp ships that are only 110% eff t1 against lower classes and the viper is insane vs it's one 'stopper' ship, the Widow.

Also.... out of curiosity if this is Tias old set did you ask him if you could use it and bastardise it?

Kaiba 9 May 2017 17:24

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Papadoc (Post 3256539)
Here is my raw set that was worked on previously and shut down by jintao :P


Note: Xan is strong and as usual its hard to give ETD an identity. I think i'd like to lower init on two De ships one in pod class and one out of pod class to reign it back in. maybe just one, whose to say!

I have time to work on these the next three days and I'm just looking to gauge general interest, not hi-jack the thread or anything



https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Was it that hard to write De or Co that you had to make them almost unreadable? And why not types? Does zik have a int 4 stealer? Does Etd has a int 1 cloaked ship? I don't know.... BECAUSE YOU HAVENT SAID

BloodyButcher 9 May 2017 17:38

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiba (Post 3256542)
Ofc FR is OP. It has 9 ships, only equaled by De. De has 6 'kill' ships (not emp/steal) that target it t1. Fr has 1 and it can't make ally ETA. And it gets hugged by Recluse. That is a really basic flaw in the stats.

So i guess you want to retract your previous statements?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiba (Post 3256477)
Zik is ridiculously OP.

How have these stats got to being put on the speed game server?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiba (Post 3256479)
There is OP and there is Terran ships with Xan ints.

Your set falls into the latter.


Kaiba 9 May 2017 17:53

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodyButcher (Post 3256544)
So i guess you want to retract your previous statements?

No. Though after the zik comment you have made multiple changes to Zik.

The Terran/xan comment actually refered to Zik, which had high ac kill ships with int 4. Again something you have started to change after my comment.

Has Jintao made you do the matrix yet?

BloodyButcher 9 May 2017 18:09

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiba (Post 3256545)
No. Though after the zik comment you have made multiple changes to Zik.

The Terran/xan comment actually refered to Zik, which had high ac kill ships with int 4. Again something you have started to change after my comment.

Has Jintao made you do the matrix yet?

I only did one big "nerph" to zik, i think atleast.
Big: Clipper normal init 7 -> steal init 20
Small: Cutter damage 64 -> 60

Two changes that was intended as a "buff" to zik(or nerph to FR)
Cutlass TI FI -> T1 FR, T2 FI
Corsair T1 FR, T2 CO -> T1 CO

Papadoc 9 May 2017 18:55

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaiba (Post 3256543)
Was it that hard to write De or Co that you had to make them almost unreadable? And why not types? Does zik have a int 4 stealer? Does Etd has a int 1 cloaked ship? I don't know.... BECAUSE YOU HAVENT SAID



I think this shows you have limited experience making stats. Or someone has fixed what you have submitted previously.

Kaiba 9 May 2017 19:01

Re: R72 statsmafia stats
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Papadoc (Post 3256547)
I think this shows you have limited experience making stats. Or someone has fixed what you have submitted previously.

Or you shouldn't be so presumptuous. I have added stats onto the beta server before. I know how it all works. What you have doesn't help anyone to critique or help you improve your set. Again, no types and no class description. Now I can obviously decipher 1 to be FI etc but after reading 70 rounds of de/co etc it doesn't help ppl to be awkward


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