Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

[The following is a late night discussion topic. The views are personal, the research minimal, but the point for debate of a serious nature.

Not quite sure what brought this subject to my attention, other than the recent attacks on Danish embassies in arabic countries, and the great level of controversy its aroused within Islam.

My question really arises from a concept thats been bugging me for ages now, that being that the single fastest growing religion in the world is Islam, to the point now where at some point in the future, it will eventually overtake Christianity as the worlds most abundant religion. This is based in 2000, however im unable to locate a more up to date reference on estimated religious numbers. Feel free to provide a more up to date chart.

Now it takes effort to mobilise a group on any given subject. A protest march in the UK takes maybe a month of planning, or a highly organised group of people with identical ideologies to get their point across. Yet within the nations where Islam is strong, these protests appear within days, sometimes hours. Theyre strong, theyre almost uncontrolled, theyre frequently violent, and theyre almost always televised.

To me, this outpouring of emotion seems stage managed. As mentioned before, it will almost certainly begin with a core of individuals with strong beliefs who will mobilize others. Mosques are huge and word of mouth travels quickly. The family unit is much stronger within a lot of Islamic communities, meaning not only will dad show up venting his spleen, but so will mum & the kids.

Can you imagine something like this occurring at Our Lady of the Immaculate Conception in Carlisle? The mockery of Jesus wouldnt result in anything more than a strongly worded rebuke in a parish pamphlet. And its very rapidly becoming the norm within Islam.

The crux of the matter is going to occur when groups of this nature, large in size, uncontrolled, and with enough anger to fuel a trip to Uranus and back, become more frequent in more moderate, westernised countries. Sooner or later, something like this will occur in a country where Islam is not the dominant religion. The followers will take the lead of their Imam's and other spiritual leaders, and violence will follow. To take up arms against the Israelis and other Jews is something beyond their capabilities at the moment. That situation is outside of this scope for the moment, however attacking other religions, religions with powerful armies but weak, divisive, democratic governments, could result in something far more destructive to civilisation as we know it.

Some argue that the war on terror is a war on Islam. IMO, thats not correct, its a war on regimes that have something to offer western economies if they start playing ball. However its very possibly a small scale vision of things to come.

Is Islam a growing threat to Christianity, by the modern (not historical) interpretations of its teachings, to the point where a Jihad is inevitable, or will Islam as a religion pull itself back from the brink, and maintain a tighter control over its extremist elements?

And will the rise of Islam, in its current extremist format, see an eventual rise of extremism within traditionally more moderate religions such as Christianity?

[Flashback to 2002 and a series of threads ending like this]

Discuss.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Part of the problem with Islam is the position of the imam. A priests word in the christian world does not have that much autorithy. Maybe within some evangelical churches, but not the rest. Not even in the catholic world.

Mum is locked away with the kids, so no :p
99% of the time you se a demonstration from the the middle east, you only see men.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

interesting topic, not one i know a huge amount about though, not that it will stop me having an opinion :)


hopefully i can see them pulling back from the brink, as time goes on i think that they will slowly become more tolerant and become more like christianity, in that *eventually* (possibly a long long time in the future, i.e. not within our lifetime) even the most fundamentalist regions will bow to advancement and become secular

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Ask any Muslim if they "respect all religions"

None will give you a straight answer, no matter how extreme or "moderate" they are. If they say they do, they are going to hell.

The reason why Muslims hate the west, is because they are putting up the most resistance to "becoming muslim". This goes against Islam.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

wow, check this:

Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=33898

It's a bit scary as to how many of those points are happening today or are close by:

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

I've read about "soft jihad" too (usually in right-wing blogs), where muslim settlers (currently 10% of europe) simply have more children than westerners and eventually become dominant. Some historian claimed Europe would be under Islamic control by the end of this century at the latest.

Like roadrunner, I prefer to think that "our" moderate muslims will become less receptive to the middle east madmen, and gradually less religious altogether. Events like 7/7, the Paris riots and now the Danish cartoons make it easy to sell 'islamophobia'. The BNP must be loving it.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

I was talking to a friend tonite over a pint before we went out and we both agreed that all this religious bs in the west was sorted out yours ago, we have moved on from religious hatred. Yet islam seems to be dragging the discussion back. Eventually I forsee a divide, a christian divide and an islamic divide.

We then moved onto iran, what is going to happen to iran and even palestine. My ex gf said she doesnt consider palestine to be arab, iranias are also not really arabic in her eyes they speak persoan etc. The fact is that surely we have moved on from this whole religious bs, i mean we had the enlightentment ffs, voltaire, montesqieu and locke etc, however now we are setting out our differences because of our religion.

The way i see it is, that catholicism, protestantism, judaism etc have all had there teething problems, islam however is going through the testing period. Im sure in 100 years it will be a chilled out religion, however it needs to go through the ups and downs for it to experience what its like to be shit and good.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Send them home. Europe should stay European.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

You know once Europe was all Neanderthalls and Homo Sapiens, (coming from Africa and also Asia) moved in and as our populations grew, the Neanderthalls disappeared.

Why does this matter? For two reasons!

1)The current european genentic mix (and if you want to go that far back, humans in general) aren't the orignal (hominoid) inhabitants of that continent.
2)I thought letting you know that your ancestors are from Africa would give you a special feeling that you would appreciate.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Sometimes you see thousands of people protesting for the most bullshit reasons in the middle of the day in Palastina
And that always makes me wonder.. Don't they have to go to work or something?

Maybe thats a part of the problem.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Hold on, so you're saying that unemployment causes jihad?

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

It's not like they've got anything else to do.. then complain and enforcing their beliefs
It's what unemployed people do, unlike people that lead a normal live and are happy with what they have

We are sitting down here, discussing world problems coz we have nothing else to do..
Their doing the same thing.. "Have you read the news, let's have another protest against those bastards.."
Which eventually leads to extremistic idea's

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

It wouldn't be the first time that unemployment causes racial hate, Germany also had it 60 years ago
Iran also seems to be in an unemployment crisis atm

And the fact that our countries with sex on tv are repulsive according to the Koran only makes it easier to hate us

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Yeah that northern ireland is such a tolerant and fun-loving place that rocks around the clock these days.

She doesn't consider Palestinians to be Arabs? What the hell? And after all those things we had jingoism, racism, World War II, the cold war, the Holocaust.

Islam was an advanced, peaceful religion at a point in time when Europeans were still running around beheading everyone who disagreed with their religious point of view. Classically, Jews were treated far better in Islamic countries than Christian ones. The question you have to ask is why is it different now?

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Its absolutely nowhere near as bad as it was though, so one could argue that there has been significant progress. Especially just recently with the IRA laying down arms.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Indeed there has been progress. However it is still an example of religious conflict in western countries.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Unlike in the West the unemployed can't just spend all day in the pub.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

idiot

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

The divide in Northern-Ireland is between the decendens of british settlers and those who are irish.
Certainly religion plays it part, but it is not the most important divide. Wolf Tone, the father of "modern day" republicanism was a protestant, for instance.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Care to contribute your first hand knowledge Flav?

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Don't be thick. I'm the descendant of British settlers for god's sake.
And Charles Parnell was the descendant of British settlers and the greatest nationalist leader Ireland ever had. Please don't presume to lecture me on the history of my own country. However this was partly my point. The biggest reason for the conflict between islam and the west is not religious either.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Latest developments

Now the only paragraph that strikes me within there are being a little suspect is "Security forces failed to hold them back"

You have guns and body armor, and a rowdy mob. You fire a few warning shots over their heads, and they disperse.

I dont think the will was there to hold them back, unofficially.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Syria criticised for failing to protect embassies.

The Syrians don't seem too bothered about stopping the embassies from going up in flames. Not a suprise really, they're probably loving it right now.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

As someone has already mentioned, the extremist nutjobs are doing Islam no favours in the PR department right now. Something of a case of draw gun, point at foot, pull trigger.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Hey I thought you were no longer around?

Anyway, why do you say "idiot"?

Have you tried asking that question to anyone? I have. Many times.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Putting aside the other issues (people don't behave as pawns in some power struggle usually) with this, it kind of ignores the not insignificant non-Western non-Muslim population in many countries (especially in the UK). Part of the recent nonsense has been to try and pretend there is a "biculture" in Europe (muslims vs every one else). The diversity of black Christian churches, not to speak of Hindu or Sikh followers puts pay to that kind of thinking.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Actually, I think theyre doing exactly the job they want to be done.

Theres a war on terror you know. Countries in that area of the world are being portrayed as hotspots for international terrorists to lie low whilst plotting how to blow up the western world.

Whilst we would see whats happening as being bad PR, can you imagine how GOOD this looks to their own countryment and other Islamics in neigbouring countries? Theyre protecting the good name of Islam, and the Koran, and the Prophet Bomb-heid. Any government which clamps down on this kind of thing gets a massive backlash, and any politics watcher knows, almost every government hates to piss off a large core of your voting public.

Example : See "Hamas" instead of "Fatah" now as the ruling party in Palestine.

Other Arabic nations recognise this and are scared of going against the more extremist Islamic point of view.

This might reach a more critical phase if the African Muslims are encouraged to protest. Nigeria for example has a very mixed religious base, highly muslim but also highly christian. I wonder what the government would do there if these riots broke out.

Actually , im not even sure there is a Danish embassy in Nigeria.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

traditionally (correct me if im wrong here) i believe that the african muslim nations are not as fundamentalist as the middle eastern ones though, so it may be a bit harder to get this kind of protest over there

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Something just like this came out in the ealry 20th century called The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. It shows the jewish plan for world dominence. It turned out to be a antisemitic hoax. Though many still believe it true. Looks like the jews will be safe for a while now that christianity has a new enemy.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

I'm well aware of that, I just think it is suicidal to let in millions of people that have no loyalty to our countries whatsoever, and just want to come here to 'Islamify' us, and get the free handouts. We shouldn't have to suffer the monetary cost of welfare as well as the risk of them blowing themselves up on public transport because they're incapable of creating a real country on their own. We have a right to stay culturally unique as well, especially European countries. Do you want Europe and North America to look like the Middle East or Mexico? That's exactly what will happen at this rate. Don't call me names, admit it. It's true.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

I have.

1- My gf, her mother
2- An argelian friend of my father, and his wife (belgian woman who converted to Islam)

From what I have been told by the people I asked, mentioned above, the Qu'ran states that all three major religions come from the same God, and that they must respect eachother.

You can not force anyone into converting into Islam. Non-believers will get what they deserve when the last prophet comes down to earth, and no one can judge but God.


note: These are their answers. I believe these people to be rational, intelligence human beings from different backgrounds, and they all condone the attacks on the embassies, the burning of flags and the death threats since that is what is giving Islam a bad name. They feel indignated for the publishing of these pictures, but the reaction by the "muslim world" is that of the extremists, and not the true followers of Islam.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

There was an ongoing discussion about Muslims getting the german citizenship and about the questions asked during that procedure in germany anyway. Today something funny happened when a minister mentioned that by now there are around 21% Muslims living in germany who think that the Koran is incompatible with the german constitution and in his opinion they should be given a ticket and said to go home then. Obviously he is getting a lot political heat now.

This could get interesting.

What do you people think? Should people who think their religion is incompatible with equality and freedom of speech be rejected citizenship or even lose it?

ps: equal rights among people and freedom of speech seem the major points they cant agree with but secularisation and democracy are probably also reasons..

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

I always have to ask the following when someone uses this answer.

"If there is such a huge majority of moderate muslims who do not condone the actions of these extremists, why is it they never actually do anything about it"

Theres a difference between "Moderate" and "Supressed". Is it that this modern majority of moderate muslims are, quite simply, too shit scared to stand up to the extremists for fear of being labelled Anti-Muslim (with us or against us, rather like the US is currently portraying itself in the western world).

?

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Thats a major point some journalists mentioned too - make a cartoon like that and you have Imams worldwide and even governments react in very strong words and actions (somebody said there are now 20+ arab countries boycotting danish products) but they seem to be awfully silent when another hostage is beheaded on TV.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

What would you suggest they do? Kill them? Declare a jihad? Constitutionalism and gradual progress doesn't make good news dude.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Im thinking they would express their dissatisfaction with their Imams and spiritual leaders, and THEY would do something about it.

If its the Imams and the spiritual leaders who are organising this, then its a fair bet to say that any statements of "Most muslims disagree with this kind of behaviour" is little more than lip-service to a quote-hungry press.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Someone would do something about if it Muslims, and even to a greater extend, Arabs, would agree with eachother. Today, there is no such thing as a worldwide Muslim identity. Islam is split in different sects, and they have a very hard time working together.

This is like asking the Protestants, Catholics, Orthodox and Maronites to work together to define whether there is a purgatory or not.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Take the embassy attacks for example - do you seriously think that with 2 days of warnings a government cant protect the most threatened foreign embassies in their own country from like 30 to 60 fanatics? because i dont.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

So basically, youre telling me that whats currently clubbed together under the faith of "Islam" is in reality a series of warring tribes with no cohesion other than when theres an attack on their faith, at which time they attack like a pack of wild dogs and paper over the cracks of their unified faith?

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

How about those sects that convince a certain number of people that Jesus will save them if they mass-suicide or whatever. I bet no sane christian will consider them christians just because they do it on behalf of their religion.

Again, this whole thing has nothing to do with religion. The same way we cannot claim Christians to be pedophiles just because a certain number of priests have had the tendency to do this for the past few centuries, we cannot say Muslims are suicide bombers just because a certain minority of them do so.

Also, don't forget the social and cultural reasons for the suicide bombings. Generally, these people feel repressed by another greater power (hello Israel), and they are so desperate they believe that it is the best way to 'fight' whatever injustice they suffer (hello tanks vs rocks).

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

It is imams and spiritual leaders that are organising it, not all imams and spiritual leaders. Of course it's a poor idea to object too strenuously, much like it's a bad idea to work around baghdad with a sign reading "down with sand niggas" or go into a violent neighbourhood at night and sleep on top of your new mercedes. It doesn't mean that everyone there is a hardened criminal if you get robbed. Just because the roman catholic church has some stupid ideas on homosexuality or the use of contraception doesn't mean all catholics are morally opposed to the use of condoms or allowing homosexuals to receive communion. You also have the problem that "Islam" is not a single religion no more than "Christianity" is. Random individuals who don't object to things don't get much air time dude.

Does anyone "respect all religions"? I don't respect any religion; given my opinions surrounding 'religion' any respect would be weak-minded hypocrisy. If indeed a Muslim were to say they did not respect my own opinion, or at least refrain from being a complimentary waste of time, I'd be refreshed by their honesty.

I don't even know what to say about a "20-point plan for conquering the United States by 2020". Sure, it's great that loads of the dots join together but who drew all the lines?

When should I pencil this in for? Unfortunately we're all tied up this month, but we really should make an effort to make it official.

If this is actually the case then you should probably just stop. Flip a coin; heads you're a Muslim, tails a Christian. It'd probably be simpler yet more exciting that way, and you'd be able to make some pretty neat observations based on all the research you'd be able to do while not debating which team to support.

Yep, everyone's become so bored with finding new means to externalise eachother's shit that they've gone and let the taigs have some jobs. With a bit of luck everyone will shake hands over a few pints of Guinness and then we can all go down the pub without testing its structure. O shit what about the arabs?

On a general note, suppose millions of brainwashed drones are going about making the world Islam their (master's) way? What am I going to do? Ackowledge this and dance to the tune of the devil I know? I'd like to think I'm not spiteful enough either way. I'm probably just arrogant though.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Stop posting.

If you want me to agree thee syrian government is <insertbadword> I'm way ahead of you.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Cutting.

Rude , undignified, and adding about as much to the debate as a recipe for Fish Pie, but cutting nonetheless.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Posting something that sounds like you just copied it out of the Daily Mirror is not exactly adding much to a reasonable debate either dude.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

I apologise if my personal opinion doesnt sound like it came from a student debate group.

I dont happen to be a student.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

replace 'warring tribe' with 'sects with different interpretations of the holy book' and yes.

For example, the Shi'ites believe in the prophet's family, and mention him and his family when praying, whereas the Sunnites do not believe in his family. This has caused many arguments and conflicts since the beginning.

Again, those that attack like a pack of wild dogs are those with extremist tendencies, and are very often a minority.

Fact: 1.4 billion Muslims around the world.

Those attacking the embassies are a minority. Check the numbers of people actively participating in the protests and you will see.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

This should be our primary weapon in trying to achieve peace in the islamic world.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Don't apologise for that. Apologise for the fact it's generalising, misinterpreting bullshit with invective verging on the pathetic.

Re: Jihad. Reality or Stage-Managed Psychological Warfare
 

Hay guys, I found the problem!!!