R32 Shipstats
 

Deleted my suggestion from here, as its not going near any test phase or phase of were the bosses even look at

stats are handled in #pastats

go take a look there

i´ll come up with something "idiotic" for r33; mainly for my friends JM and Theamnub
(hopefully not after another set failed)

cherio, cyas around

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

do. not. do. this.


really. don't.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

There are too many classes to make the stats like this. It's a step back into the direction of single targetting (a lot of single targetting ships in the stats). This will be an interesting experiment. Which most likely will end in total failure. I expect lots of roid swapping and very little defence. I don't think I'll join an alliance that won't allow me to 3-fleet attack with such stats.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

I dont think any alliance will have you if you demand that.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

silly German stats are for kids. nice try tho.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

#pastats for the real stats.

Thank god, M0rpheus didnt make them :D

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

OP.. you do understand that the targetting type your suggestion is just out there with the current amount of fleet slots and round lenght...

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

nice, didnt know something was happening

its qualified comments like this who motivate you to think/work and try to come up with new ideas

thx a lot :up:

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

/me deletes his post.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

Do you no understand, that when u have red dots underneath your name, it means people do not want you to post?

Ever.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

Man, does the dots under my name mean people want me to post then?!

I highly doubt it man

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

I welcome all attempts to discuss anything related to strategy on this forum. While you may not agree with the other poster, his ideas seem well intentioned. The number of red dots has nothing to do with whether or not someone should post here.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

As an aside, I've been going through exam hell atm.


I know that making stats, particularly if you've got a lot of rl stuff going on, requires motivation. So I have decided to share with you all my new favourite motivational poster. I think it's helped my exams go better than my shipstats did.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

plz explain where you think you see those red dots

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

They are green now, thanks to the anti-JM movement!


Statswise, would

Beetle Fi - Fi/Co
Phantom Co - Fi

fix most problems?

Would make Cath Fi a lot weaker (maybe too weak?), Lancer stronger (not a bad thing imo), and Ter Co stronger.

Would allow Valks to stop solo'ing Xans, though how big of a problem that is would depend on salvage (and Valks are almost always part of an attackfleet anyway). Same with Lancer, though without losses, so maybe init 7 that, or lower d/c?

Also, Cath De is in need of some nerfing imo.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

Asc thinks im importnat enough to troll, COOL!!!!!123455

/me faps over the ego strokes :D

FYI, current set of proposed stats:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...awx-r8dKyQ7oPg

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

god knows where you pulled those stats from, i took them seriously for about as long as my pc to load screen and check out my attacking option this round (Xan cr), then i rofl.

someone with ability please make a set
pppppppppppppppppppppleeeeeeeeeasee

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

Prey tell, invalid of PA, what is wrong with said statistics?

Heavy hulls are useable. Right. Thats a bad thing, BECAUSE?

Edit: They are. Nice ones.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

What in the name of ****ing god did you do to xan armour? Jesus christ man. I mean the sentinel's a/c is 167. That's just absurd. Who in the hell is going to pick a fleet where your ships die if the other guy breathes on them heavily? "Oh look, a 0 ship def fleet against me, seeing as if it's real it's going to destroy my entire fleet I should probably recall!"

At this point I'd really recommend going back to a 2 ship stat set.

PS It's "pray tell".

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

The set that JungleMuffin posted is the official set that is being worked on for r32, you may join us in #pastats and make suggestions if you wish. The reason it appears so absurded is that cost, armour, damage, and EMP resistance have not yet actually been done and are just place holders at the moment. So if you have comments on the stats please focus on targeting and initiative.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

You can't produce a balanced, interesting set of stats without considering what efficiencies ships are going to have at the same time as you're doing classes and targetting. As I said though, I'd go back to a 2 ship stat set and I'd try and reduce the number of 2/3 class targetting ships as well. Overall I think the stats would be helped by slightly fewer ships and greater variation in initiative.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

I disagree to some degree, initiative and targeting are primary, efficiencies are secondary, as long as when you do init/targeting you have a general feel of what ships are going to be made powerful and which are weaker doing things separately is not going to necessarily make the stats imbalanced.

I assume by "2 ship stat set" you mean two pod classes, I agree that would be good, as would a reduction in the number of ships per race, and limited T2/T3 targeting would also enhance the set.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

Oh really?

<Considence> no topic?
<+JungleMuffin> the question is
<+JungleMuffin> do we want u to see it?
<Considence> rofl you are hiding the stats from people till they are done?
<Considence> wow thats epic
<+JungleMuffin> yes
<+JungleMuffin> :D
<+JungleMuffin> we dont want nubs to harm them!
<Considence> what bullshit
<+JungleMuffin> actually its more of an intel thing tbh
<+JungleMuffin> we dont want to give one group of people an unfair advantage
<+JungleMuffin> so we hide them from all

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

<+JungleMuffin> we dont want nubs to harm them!

Irony, I salute thee.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

just let JBG do the stats again, atleast i can get back to raging against him than agreeing with his posts

1000 monkeys with 1000 spreadsheets arnt going to create a satisfactory set of stats in a few weeks, please leave it to someone who has a clue.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

Agreed. JBG always make good stats(except when certain people jump in and make some "last minute alterations").

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

Junglemuffin is not in charge of the stats, there is a topic in #pastats, I don't know why you couldn't see it. You are welcome regardless of what JM says, as is anyone else.

However just because you make suggestions it doesn't mean they will be taken, Zaejii is in charge of the stats at the end of the day. There are a number of us in #pastats who do indeed have a clue about stats, I myself have done several sets. I would welcome JBGs input on the stats, he certainly has a wealth of experience and his input would be valuable.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

I've idled in the channel a few times and haven't seen anyone discuss anything there. I'll just post my comments on the v5 here.

In general I think the stats are very interesting. People can attack each other but defence is a lot easier than now. A bit of rock, paper, scissors. I noticed that there are huge differences in emp resistance compared to before. Some ships get stunned easily, others are almost impossible to freeze.

More specific comments:

1. Xan fi can hardly be stopped in the currently proposed version. They have the first initiative except for emp, but they are practicly immune to emp. Their armor may be made of paper, but that's no problem if the other guy is dead before he can open fire. The only alternative to another Xan to defend is a combination of beetles and phoenix. (Stun the sentinels, then the phoenixes survive to fire.) Something needs to change. A possibility is changing the cost of the Phantom to 45/45/45, then raising damage and armor to 3 and 6, so it keeps the same dam/cost and arm/cost. Then lower Emp resistance to 13. This means the Phantom can be stunned normally.

2. What is the intention of Zik Cr? I cannot find anything they can attack. Improve them or just remove them. I'm thinking like improve the emp resistance of Rogue/Pirate/Ironclad to 90/90/89.

3. The Avenger isn't efficient against anything. I suggest reducing the cost from 75/90/75 to 65/90/65. (This also effects the Xan fi.)

Finally I think it would be better to drasticly change the cost of ships. Nowadays Terrans use a bit more metal, Cathaar a bit more crystal and Zik a bit more eonium. I'd like to see a lot more use of these differences, so that buddypacks and alliances will not all try to play one race. It would bring a bit more balance between the races. I suggest making normal (Terran) ships cost equal amounts of each, Emp ships more Crystal, Cloaked ships more Eonium and Steal ships more Metal. Then the major change would be that the cost would be more like 1:2:1 instead of the 5:6:5 ratio we have now. I chose equal for terran because they are more of a race for beginning players. Etd have a bit of all kind of ships, so they are also not affected very much.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

I have put together my own proposal for upcoming stats for this round or a later one. Simply put, I prefer the less complex two pod ship system that limits combat vessels to around seven per race. I took design elements of the R20's and combined them with the best elements from R30 and tweaked accordingly to my taste.

Some quick points:
> Each race has 10 ships: 7 combat, 2 pod, 1 SK
> Light combat has diametrically opposed elements, two FI core races, two CO core offense races, one CO core defense race
> Terran specs are bolstered given their inability to land cleanly solo in most instances, they are designed for brute force.
> Etraides was the favored race on paper at first glance, defensive class ships have been neutered to compensate.
> A crude, but detailed, defense and offense ship matrix is available on sheet 3 of the spreadsheet (look at bottom left of screen to click).

hxxp://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=rP2YvexllM14uPw2Y3u_5BQ
(replace hxxp with http and paste to address bar - there appears to be a limitation on my posting the actual link - "You are only allowed to post URLs to other sites after you have made 15 posts or more.")

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

Though, I do agree that Xan Fi might need another "weakness", perhaps a De that shoots Fi t1?

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

not looked at em much tbh, but after this round's fi/co dominance I cant see anyone wanting a set of stats that has 4 races that have fi/co pods (this round only had 3 - admittedly the other 2 could steal fi/co pods - and look how dominant they are!!) compared to 3 fr/de and 4 cr/bs (this round every race had both).

so I suggest U reduce the number of fi/co!

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

Ok, I missed that. Don't expect a lot of sensible comments if I cannot comment about most of the stats.

I think Terran stinks. It is claimed that Terrans can roid Ziks, well they can't. Ter Fr run into a ship with initiative 5. Ter Cr or Bs will suffer heavy losses when attacking a Zik (asuming the Terran will have the usual sucky damage and ziks have decent armour). Later in the round Ziks will also have stolen ships. Cathaar will be the only viable target (and that's only if emp resistance isn't messed up again). This sounds like a losing recipe.
No idea why Terran Cr and Bs are largely the same. I don't see how this will be a good idea, unless you come up with un-Terran-like variations in ERes, Armour and Damage.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

How about at least looking at them first? I'm kind of offended that you assume I just pulled these numbers out my arse without giving it any thought.

Here's how it breaks down.

CATH FI Beetle - CO/FI EMP, Init 2
CATH FI Recluse - DE/FR EMP, Init 3

XAN FI Banshee - FR/DE NORM, Init 4
XAN FI Phantom - FI/CO NORM, Init 5

ZIK CO Interceptor - DE/FR NORM, Init 5
ZIK CO Cutlass - CO/FI STEAL, Init 21

ETD CO Lancer - CO/FI EMP, Init 2
ETD CO Smuggler - DE/FR STEAL, Init 24

The big changeover is moving Recluse to Init 3, this allows defending EMP to stun some of the recluse before they fire, allowing in galaxy defense from FR/DE players to better impact overall defense. While my ship matrix is not highly detailed or lists all scenarios, just ask me about any of them, and I can provide my reasoning behind why each ship functions the way it does.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

I did not say anything of the sort I am sure they are well thought out, I am just saying that almost no matter how bad U have made fi/co they will be the dominant metaclass if U have 4 races with fi/co pods due to their natural advantages.

I dont understand what U R trying to prove by giving me stats of the init/targeting of these fi/co, they dont seem to show immense holes that would be needed to stop a fi/co dominated universe so ?

I did say that I had not much looked at them, it was initial impressions, and this round should teach us that ppl will go for fi/co even if they are not great (xan co this round) particularly as I am sure that many ppl make their choice based on intial impressions this should be enough ftm :p

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

OK, sorry I misread your comment. I understand the sentiment that FI/CO was overused but I chalk that up to the lack of EMP targeting FI class that allowed CATH to run wild with large FI fleets. Even when you could put together a large FI/CO defense fleet, the tradition of allowing Recluse to fire at same init as the Beetle has prevented FR/DE class ships that target FI/CO from having a viable role in defense. Reverting to EMP targeting FI and bumping up the EMP init against FR/DE should allow galaxies and defense catches on PL work much more efficiently as defense options in future rounds.

The example I would offer off hand is CATH FI v. CATH FI with these stats would offer the defender the opportunity to EMP the Recluse before they fire, allowing Spiders and other FR/DE class ships targeting FI/CO a larger role in defense.

Also, I don't mean to come across as trying to promote my stats over other viable options, as I stated in my other thread "... take under consideration for this round or later ones." I'm not even sure about playing R32 myself as it's summer here and I'd prefer to get out a bit more often. Just putting in my two cents for future design reference.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

The only fix you can give to reduce the effect of massive Fi/co usage with any stats, is to unify ETA's, this will be the last time I will post this.

I also think a large increase in ALL armor would be nice.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

I should have made the cutlass a FI.

We've had balanced stats before without FI/CO dominance. This can be achieved just by nerfing FI/CO relative to everything else. It should look weaker on paper, and there needs to be at least a good FR/DE that can shoot xand FI/CO early and maybe a couple of FR/DE that are flakked vs the cath EMP (like the tycoon this round)

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

there would be pros and cons to that

I would just prefer banning out of tag def as only fi/co arent subject to that

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

Over the last few weeks you have shown not to fully understand this game or how games are designed. You want to nerf things, make things impossible (like out of tag defence) while those are the things that make life easier so you can play for fun. The in-tag eta bonus is a pro and a community building aspect, but you can still defend others out of tag. (like, you know, friends?)

What might be a solution to this is to give FI/CO pods the FR eta. That has pro's and cons too, but opens the way for far more fun.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

As i like doing crazy crap with PA....

http://pastebin.com/m1be10316 Also includes research tree etc.

Overview:
1) All races get a set of 8 basic ships (6 attack ships, 1 pod, 1 structure killer).
2) Each race then gets a set of unique ships (4 attack, 1 pod) which have features related to that race (Cloaking, EMP, Steal).
3) Race specific research needs to be completed before the unique units can be built.
4) All Meta Class have the same ETA to target, and -1 on defence ETA.
5) EMP is based on EMPArmor (aka Shield), so no more resistances.

I admit that I dont have a clue about ship stats tbh, but I think the general idea is there (Shield stats would need to be increased as it currently equals normal Armor) .

I did think of maybe allowing all techs to be used by anyone, but then each player would have 20 odd ships to try and work out which is best. Only way to combat that would be to decrease unique ships.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

Have to say, i haven't really looked at the stats much. But i do like the idea of having a standard set of ships, and then being able to research/select a specific area. Gives you more ship options and should atleast mean that the standardised ships are balanced off each other.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

hmm Can't they just post weekly updates to stats what is uploaded to x url, so we can comment on them. You can always use #stats to discuss xxxxx stuff and then just according to chosen timeframe update them to stats page. Most mistakes don't need testing, you can see them straight off from the spread sheet or by using few !eff thingys on a bot who's tied to that spreadsheet.

I'm not that fond of idling in #stats waiting for someone with authority or complete idea to explain why they did what as I'm personally atleast not that fond off waiting for someone else without any timeframe to get some answers on a matter what isn't work related at all as the game is just a hobby these days when I can play..

easier to read forums and then give reasoning or alternative solution if the points made by posters are right in weekly summary or 3-day or whatever timeframe they want.

Anyways just my opinion, I gues there are people still who aren't that heavily loaded in RL at work affairs who can do stats, but atleast this way you would get more input bad/good I gues.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

considering that the forums are full of "hey look at the stats i've made and comment on them" posts, i've personally chosen to stop trying to filter through what stats set everyone is referring to with all their posts and i sit in #pastats (where apparently the real set for next round is being worked on) either commenting when people have questions, or getting back to them whenever i return if i feel their questions or comments have not been addressed. there are quite a few capable individuals there.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

Having thought about it for a while I made a stats set for next round.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...Sg&output=html

Emp efficiencies aren't added but I'd go generally easy to emp xan, harder to emp terran.

Basically 2 pods per race, 3 was getting messy, down to 6 ships per race and classic formulae in general. Every race has something cool going for it which would make me want to play it, and has proven popular, ter de army, xan having both fi and co, zik ships having huge efficiencies, cath co fleet and I still have no real idea why anyone would want to play etd.

Efficiencies are just a rough guideline. I'm quite willing to nerf xan's efficiencies to shit and back again (preferably by nerfing armour, not damage) if there is a perception that they're overpowered and so on.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

A very pleasant surprise to find a competing set of stats here.
JBG is very experienced and knows what he's doing, so im not surprised that once i opened the sheet, i was amazed by how simple but yet appealing they were.

I honestly think PA needs a simple, aswell as good set of stats, to be more appealing and easy-going for new players. So far, these stats proposed by JBG is just the thing for it!

Objectively, every race has something nice in them that makes me want to play them, but subjectively i have never understood why on earth we need ETD?!?!, and EMP is not really my thing. Luckily i find terran/zik/xan very playable as each race has something that attracts my attention.
Zik with its pure stealing ships with high efficiency.
Xan with its brutal initiative, and teamup capabilities to improve its weaknesses in attack
Terran, just hardcore armor and one-class fortress!

Lovely surprise!

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

Simple and effective, with fewer ships to have to worry about.

I quite like them.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

I like! Def whats needed, I know ppl prefer every race to have 3+ pod classes but these seem much more balanced then the other sets put forward for this round.

Good job!

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

I'd quite willingly remove etd. My only concerns are over them really. I'm considering removing the bs fleet (as it's pretty shit really) and just making etd all fr/de, which would then give etd a sort of uniqueness which they don't really have anywhere else.

I did it, considering giving etd a de class emp fi/co ship.

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

I said a long time ago that the stats should be simple and balanced and only minor tweaks each round should be implemented with the aim of greater balance. I compared PA to chess. You don´t need stat changes every round to make the game simple and yet ulimately complex.
I do however think JBG´s stats are a little over simplistic. I know you are complaining about etd but I can´t see a single reason looking at the stats for playing terran. AND xan with speed and power will just dominated again especially if caths are downgraded from last round.

Well that´s my first impression anyway

Re: R32 Shipstats
 

Terran de army or roiding xans (roiding what is perceived as the #1 race is always good) with bs (unless they go for shadows) extremely easily. Xan will have speed and power yeah, I'd nerf their armour probably a bit more than it is, maybe downgrade some other efficiencies but I think this is how xan should look. Intuitively the stats make sense to me in terms of the races and how they were conceptualised.