How many races should their be?
Hey all
This past round we only played with 4 races in the hopes it would improve the quality of shipstats by having less races. In some threads i've been reading some comments about it like:
I felt this discussion deserved it's own topic. How many races would work best in terms of creating good shipstats, have enough diversity, playability, prevent stagnation, ... and why? |
Re: How many races should their be?
What happened to 1 2 and 3? Why gather them under 'Other' when they are as valid as the ones given their own slot
|
Re: How many races should their be?
Is there in PA history other types of ships besides Normal, Emp, Cloak, Steal? I think if there was to be a 6th race, there should be a different kind of ship too.
|
Re: How many races should their be?
I think the number of pods in the stats (and by extension, the number of roiding fleets) is more important than the number of races.
I like the number of roiding fleets to be divisible by the number of classes (6). 6, 12 and 18 pods are all OK. However, 6 pods means that there's no overlap between the races, which makes teamups pointless and alliance fleet strategies much less interesting. 18... well, 18 is a lot of bloody pods, leaving very little room for actual combat ships. So I like 12. Whether you achieve that by making 4 races (with 3 pods each), 5 races (some with 2 and some with 3 pods), or 6 races (with 2 pods each) is much less important to me. Therefore, I voted 'other'. |
Re: How many races should their be?
U dont have to make each race symetric.
Ive said this a million times, as you base your stats on some "tiamata-esque" approach. If cath/etd has 3 pods each, you can have more fleets with EMP attack ships, wich is good in this modern fast paced value PA. Less "zero loss(def ships that fire before the attacker)" def ships is key, as no one in their right mind will land a dark red calc for 90% of the round anyways. The only ones landing red calcs is trolls, like Asc/HEROES, or alliance on a mission to destroy another alliance. |
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
|
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
More of the requirments that Jintao has been setting up for stats the last rounds |
Re: How many races should their be?
OK.
Relatedly: People who voted for 6 races, what should the 6th race be? I think we can all agree that another mix-of-everything-else like Etd is not what we should aim for. But what then? |
Re: How many races should their be?
Not Subversion. Just don't.
|
Re: How many races should their be?
Lol i think we are moving a bit too far ahead of ourselves. At the moment it's just a question being asked.
If it's ever descided to add a 6th race, i'm guessing there will be a long discussion on what it should be then. So let's not have it now and focus on the original question: Do we even need a 6th race? |
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
3 variations on each. |
Re: How many races should their be?
Please learn the difference between their and there.
|
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
|
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
I've tried to come up with ideas for new ship types in the past, and quite frankly, didn't get much farther than a turtle race with very high armor, mediocre damage and very slow init, pretty much Terran-squared... I think we can do better than that. |
Re: How many races should their be?
What if we start with a sketch that the "ability" is a drawback. Awesome ships in terms of stats but with abilities that hinder them.
I just thought something like: Phasing: each combat a random part of the ships with this ability doesn't take part in combat |
Re: How many races should their be?
6 races please
2 pods per race = 12 roiding fleets 2 FI roiding fleets 2 CO roiding fleets 2 FR roiding fleets 2 DE roiding fleets 2 CR roiding fleets 2 BS roiding fleets NICE BALANCE CHEERS |
Re: How many races should their be?
RACE BREAKDOWN
Terran (100% heavy kill) Cathaar (100% EMP, 1 kill maybe) Xan (100% cloak) Zik (100% Steal, 1 kill maybe) Etd (Terran base, with steal ships & some cloak) Pilgrims (Cathaar base, with kill ships & some EMP) |
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
Also I don't think a 5th race or 6th race should necesarrily be a mix of different types of ships or introduce a new type of damage (**** subversion). For me 2 races who only have NORMAL/STEAL/EMP/CLOAK ships but with a different focus/playstyle is perfectly acceptable. |
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
|
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
Would love to see, cant see it happening |
Re: How many races should their be?
newRace is driven by instant profits. They thrive on pillaging, looting and salvaging.
Their swift attack boats allow them to move in and out of combat very quickly. Give them 4 fleetslots. Their people are mostly on the move, scouting for new targets. They don't need an infrastructure on their planet, all they need is Speed and ships. (Max 50 constructions, slow construction, slow research. Basicly - their research is half-way finished with startup bonus) This race really profits from combat trough Attacking Salvage. They have very weak but insanely expensive astropods. They don't attack your planet for the asteroids, they attack it for the raw RESOURCES they can harvest from yours. (Cargo ships style here, but maybe not limited to amount of resources earned / tick). There is only x amount of resources that can be gathered from a planet when hitting it. Since the gains newRace gets are not sustainable (they don't have roids, they need to profit from the actual harvesting of resources) teaming up for huge battles really isn't profitable, certainly not at earlier stages of the round. Needs to be fleshed out, but think most of this is already in the game in some way. Additional Idea 1: Bonus salvage for defending planets that manage to 'win' a battle at their planet. (Because the attackers would be carrying resources etc) Additional Idea 2: (this is probably harder to implement) Red defence could be a thing again. let the newRace actually combat both attacking and defending fleets at a planet. |
Re: How many races should their be?
Although this might seem very abusable, i like this idea.
It gives a new setup and strat for a new way of playing. |
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
|
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
and new race has OP covoping. In that the success ratio is the same, but new race gets x5 bonus when completing a covop |
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
Quote:
The goal is to spread the fleets over multiple targets where they can deal considerable losses (think: 5-6 ticks of income for each wave landing?) rather then grabbing 500 roids from 1 2k planet. This way with enough effort you could actually still cause said top planet to gain no income for 24hours straight, but he atleast has a chance to cover some of your waves, even if the first one manages to land. 2) Hiding ships takes 8 ticks - what if my alliance sends a wave 2? 3) Having ships in prod means there is half-finished ships and stocks of resources in these factories. Those could be mine, if I only tried to actually get them! |
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
The thing is, while gaining resources is the goal of value-based PA strategies, you don't actually want to have to go out to get resources directly. It's much more efficient to sit on your ass gaining value passively, ie from your roids. Sitting on 500 roids is better than capping X ticks worth of income that those 500 roids would generate, for almost any X, because if you have the roids (not necessarily capped in one attack or even one day), you get the income even if you don't land for a while, whereas if you depend on stealing resources, you have to cap every day or fall behind. And that's on top of requiring that there's no methods of stopping you from capping even if you land clean, by hiding the treasure (whatever it is) in some way. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
Stealable resources == Earnings from combat tick + stock + ongoing constructions + ongoing productions + ongoing ship sales + salvage from dying ships Quote:
The point is: while your planet will never generate enough to keep up, your 'raids' will help you to keep up. Quote:
Quote:
Anyways, just trying to describe the idea a bit and using you as a sparring partner mz. I guess I want to introduce a hit & run race. Grab what you can. Even in very tight corners you could come out ahead (maybe you are not able to recall attacks, but everyone of your ships has a 33% chance to limp out of combat rather then die? - (dc's can't just cover with 'equal value loss', they'll need to make sure defence is worth it, cause newRace is going to land anyhow!!)). Nothing is to be gained by attacking your planet, but when the defending party manages to spring a trap on you (cover your attack) they'll be feasting on your juicy cargo. |
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
Damn Veil this is a bad quote :s - who are you talking to? |
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
I think it'll be a challenge implementing such a different style/game play. |
Re: How many races should their be?
I don't personally have an issue with new styles of play (or even taking back a form of subversion) but I agree that having a race which it's not possible to win with is not really a viable solution.
A slightly different idea which I saw - related to attacker salvage - is that instead of getting any salvage, they get direct salvage in ships either of their own or of others, even when attacking (potentially). It'd be more of a unique race ability. |
Re: How many races should their be?
Lets just completely re-run round 3 stats, research and construction :banana:
|
Re: How many races should their be?
6 races
terran= high armor xan= cloaked high dmg cath= emp zik=steal etd= steal + high armor new race= Emp + cloak just a suggestion, on new race... make it a Mashup of our top 4 sorta like what you did with etd. or if u want to implement some salvage ships that could be interesting but again will need to run through testing to make sure no abusable... but it will make fc tags alot stronger which can be interesting for pod ships... I suggest more pods tbh... alot of people are using covert ops to get certain pod classes to play a class anyway... so just let the people build the pods to begin with so everyone isn't playing the same setups...I'm not saying 6 pod classes per race... but 2 is not enough...3-4 sounds alot more reasonable.... |
Re: How many races should their be?
also.... full tag should contribute to score to remove effectiveness of support planets..... allies with top40 avg 7mil and bottom 20 avg 3mil.... and all bottom 20 on 1-2 ship builds???
somewhere it shows your system is broken and being abused this only hurts the game and it's community tbh... if u want to keep large tags and try and reduce blocking.... I suggest full score contribution and remove defence from out of tag +1 |
Re: How many races should their be?
Since multipple races was included in planetarion it has Always been 4 ones. When i saw that zik was back and Etd was removed, my first reaction was to piety that they didnt also kept Etd so there was atleast 5 races in the game. I do belive that the crew whould implement up to 6-8 races, it makes this game even more interesting
August the crazy Sweden |
Re: How many races should their be?
i think appoco was working on reimplementing subversive ships, no idea how far that is or if it can be implemented at all in the current battle engine!?
subversive race would for sure be an interesting additional option other then that i was thinking about cloaked ships that have emp weapons only this would be a rather easy implementation i would think and could be the sixth race we are looking for overall (yes i voted 6 races) i think making stats with an even number of races is easier, escpecially as we are facing a even number of shipclasses while saying this, i dont think rounds with just 4 races do any good - the game turns even more predictable then it allready was imo Last but not least we could stick with 5 races and just add another shipclass - odd number of races with an odd number of shipclasses Goliath Class slower and bigger then Battleships or a Drones Class if you wanna have it smaller and faster then your manned fighters just some thoughts |
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
4 races definitely feels like dumbed down Planetarion. Yes it makes balance easier, but balance is no good if it comes at the cost of fun/creativity. |
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: How many races should their be?
My preference has always been to give Fi/Co one pod, the rest get two, still making it ten pods for five races. Fi/Co is inherently stronger, so limiting teamup options for those two was my way of managing them.
And yes, you can already have cloaked EMP (or Steal!) ships. |
Re: How many races should their be?
Patrikc and Mz are correct
The shiptype is split into 2 fields: Cloack: yes/no (1/0) Type: Normal, Emp, Steal, Pod, Sk, Resource Any combination of these can technically be made. Only problem is that PA currently has no method to display what type of cloaked ship it is. It will just display cloaked in the shipstat overview. |
Re: How many races should their be?
One of the hardest parts of even attempting to make a stat set (standard 5 races) is figuring out what to do with ETD. It has no true identity. More often than not, It's very strong and highly represented or a weird combination of ships that no one uses.
I'm all for a 6th race but, What on earth would we do with a 6th race without changing the combat engine? I suppose there is the option of making all 6 races have every ship type. good luck with that! |
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
What might help Etd specifically is if we made it a little more focused. Not a bit of everything, but a mix of just two types, for example. |
Re: How many races should their be?
clear from poll community wants more racial diversity!
|
Re: How many races should their be?
What about ships that use their hull as a weapon? Sorta suicide-y with salvage or something as reward :P
Or a matryoshka style ship that becomes another smaller ship once destroyed - just being crazy here :P |
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
|
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
Quote:
|
Re: How many races should their be?
Quote:
|
Re: How many races should their be?
Lets discuss this again :p
|
Re: How many races should their be?
6th race: one pod in every class, one "cargo ship" in every class. High armor, high emp res for the flak ships. Pods should be weak and expensive.
Peaceful stealing, faking possible somewhat. Give them an inherent bonus to mining output and/or significant ship production cost. Immune to ship stealing covops. Stupid/funny/funky "support" planets. I'm about 50% serious here. |
All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:21. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2002 - 2018