I was wondering what you pro-abortionists thought of this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4592890.stm
You probably all heard about this, though im suprised there wasnt a thread on it. (To clarify my position, i believe abortion should only be allowed if the mothers life is at risk, if the mother was raped, and perhaps in cases of incest. Im not religious at all.) So it seems theres going to be a massive gender imbalance in India, much like the problem in China. The questions ask themselves, but im going to get slaughtered on wording as ever by the pedants. Dont question the questions, please just state how you interpret them, or state what you think the real questions and answers are. Is it still a womens choice if its purely for reasons of sex? Even though this will create an unbalanced soceity? Are there solid links between this gender imbalance and the rise of sexually motivated assaults? |
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Thinking it's the women who choose away the girls is rather shallow. I would assume, that in a society like India where the husband is the dominating person in the relalationship, it is he who takes the choice.
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Then take the question as "the parents choice", but the debate is always known as "the womens choice". Could you possibly stop being a fag for one minute and read the initial post? Cause thatd be just ****ing wonderful
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I hadn't actually seen that before but the claim that this might have been going on for 20 years seems a bit far fetched to me.
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Re: I was wondering what you pro-abortionists thought of this
India and China need a lack of woman.
I don't think it really is a bad thing what's happening over their. And even if it was; it still wouldn't be up to us to decide if they need to keep an unwanted child. They are the once that have to raise it. Not you. |
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Re: I was wondering what you pro-abortionists thought of this
Most of the points I wanted to raise have already been done so. But...
1. Is there a rise in sexually motivated assaults? In which societies, and can you supply a source for this? Rape is a notoriously difficult crime to get accurate statistics for. Conversely, populations with majority female populations (i.e. most of the world, including South Africa) do not exactly seem to be rape-free so I doubt there's a significant link. 2. Have you not considered that if these women were not having abortions they might carry out infanticide, or at the very least abandoment. Quote:
Your story is the usual misunderstanding of elementary freedoms. It's like people saying "Should people have freedom of speech, even when they're going to say something really horrible or racist?". Well, yes they should. The freedom is not at fault, it is the society (as T&F has said) which has spawned such a viewpoint, which has made such behaviour rational or at least understandable. Oh and finally, T&F has made this point but I am not pro-abortion. I do not want people to have abortions per se. I want people to have the choice. The only people I have met who were "pro-abortion" have been fundamentalist environmentalists who desire to reduce the human population as much as possible so the chimps can take over or some shit. |
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that article doesn't give the figures for male child abortion, and therefore you cannot really make an informed judgement. Also, looking at the figures it does give, i really wouldnt call that too unbalanced to be fair, it is certainly balanced enough to sustain a viable population
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Let us also assume that the female wants to pass on her own genes (this is also fairly trivial. Genes that act to pass themselves on better are more likely to be passed on, and so dominate). If there are more males than females, then there is competition between the males to pass on their genes. So, to make it more likely that the mother's genes will be passed on to a subsequent generation, the mother chooses a female, but chooses a male when there's more females than males. Therefore there's this negative feedback system, where the more the system deviates from the 1:1, the more beneficial it is for the individuals to restore the system to 1:1. Clearly, there are quite a few things that can cause deviation from this, but that's the basic concept, and introduces the concept of negative feedback which is extremely useful when looking at things from an evolutionary standpoint. |
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Lets assume that there exists, in a generation, more of the "Boy" genes. This means that in the next generation there will be more boys than girls. However, this means that girls are more likely to pass on their genetic information. As seen above, girls are more likely to carry the "Girl" genes, so the "Girl" genes will be more likely to be expressed in the next generation - so the number of girls will increase. There are three possible situations in the next generation. 1. There are still more boys than girls, in which case the same happens as above. 2. There are now more girls than boys, in which case the "Boy" gene is selected for using the above mechanism, swapping the words "boy" and "girl". 3. There are the same number of boys and girls, which means that the boy/girl genes are "Selectively Neutral" - they cause neither advantage nor disadvantage. (3) is rather implausable, and is not a stable situation in any event. But the actions of (1) and (2) are to tend the sex ratio to 1:1, because when it deviates in either direction the tendency is to return towards it. |
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(I appreciate you never said there was, and this is not intended to be a loaded or hostile question) |
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Maybe this is nature's way of rectifying the overpopulation of eastern and southern asia? Didn't think about that one did you huh?
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Another question is: why would you think that they wouldn't differ? |
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* = You know what I mean, clearly the mother's "line" has to be considered. |
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according to this site the birth ratio is 1.05:1 male to female, which differs from what that article claims, also, if you look on the BBC news site there is another article today casting doubt on the conclusions raised in the first article. Basically i think that the article is quite disingenuous and should be taken with a pinch of salt
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Re: I was wondering what you pro-abortionists thought of this
I thought the general pattern was more males were born but more females survived (which is usually why populations become imbalanced as you go up the age pyramid) - or something like that. Possibly the other way round, with another switch happening in later life.
Either way, if you can't get a date it's probably not going to be because of demographic issues but because you're shit. |
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Are you claiming gender-ratio affects future gender-ratio? Since a child (made the tradional way atleast) has one mother and one father gender-ratio can not affect anything at all genetically. I mean, the relative amounts of the genes for each seperate gender are usable variables, however using a single variable for total concentration when the selection-process is biased (through demanding one male and one female) is a fallacy. |
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I enjoy how you go on to talk about me trolling apparently but fail to actually read what i wrote. I was saying "if you dont think the questions im asking are relevant then fine, answer what questions you do think are relevant" which would have singlehandedly stopped one line "its a womens choice" or "its pro choice not pro abortion you fag" replies. Congratulations, you singlehandedly deliberately misinterpreted my post and set the thread back. Going back to the "is abortion right" argument isnt going to help anyone (which is why i stated my view and left it at that). But if you're going to try and enforce your _personal_ view of liberty and human freedoms, mine is that a women's choice / parents choice is before you put your ****ing cock in someone. Everyone has a choice, its just your point of view tends to ignore that blindingly obvious fact. May i just say as well that although i dont respect your point of view (pro-choice for whatever reason imaginable disgusts me), i do acknowledge that it is a widespread point of view. But whats the point? You're never going to convince me i'm irrational and im never going to convince you your point of view is pretty revolting. So why bring the whole argument back up again? Pro-choice, pro-abortion. I dont care. You've gone ballistic over a choice of words, which i wont apologise for. Its nitpicking, and im not trying to hide my bias. Again, im asking questions, not stating facts. Interpret them and answer them or state what you think is relevant all you want, im not claiming to have all the answers. Youd love it if i was though. As to the sexually motivated assaults, the reason i phrased that as a question is because im pretty confident i read something about that in china & hong kong somewhere, but as of yet, i havent looked up a source. I wondered if anyone else had any info. |
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On a side note, despite my disclaimers, guess what happened! the bias of a thread starter was attacked rather than the actual issue. The thread did evolve into something interesting with the discussion about balance, but again, most of you would rather throw your toys out of the pram and attack the poster and the post rather than the issue. I'll gladly take neg reps all day for that sort of internet faggotry
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Anyway, your only real question is pretty easy to answer, and has been done by at least two people quite clearly. A woman is free to dispose of a bunch of cells in her body however she pleases. The end, gg, wp, new map plz. Quote:
Anyway, I'd still wager that China probably has a lower "rape" rate than South Aftrica, Brazil or even the United States anyway. If only because domestic rapes probably still aren't categorised effectively as rape (again, no evidence for this) and it's probably still more of a male-dominated society (although I suspect China is better off than many of her neighbours in this regard). Finally, I'm not sure why Hong Kong would be lumped in with China in an analysis since they've had radically different socio-economic systems until quite recently. |
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[edit] To answer your questions, "Yes", "What?", "No" respectively. |
Re: I was wondering what you pro-abortionists thought of this
when a thread is terribly constructed there isnt much point in actually discussing the questions that it tries to raise, as they will be hugely flawed. Do you not understand that or do you not agree with that assessment of the OP?
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Re: I was wondering what you pro-abortionists thought of this
Would you have preferred i posted a link, and left no comment? I typed out some questions that i felt were relevant and invited people to discuss questions they thought were relevant.
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If you could just answer me that would be swell.
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assessment of the OP?
Im not sure i understand. |
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I've lost count of how many times ive said this now. Im not a troll, and i dont have all the answers. I was asking some questions, and asking other people to state what questions they thought were relevant and debate them. Funnily enough i was looking for some interesting discussion, and its nothing short of incredible that despite trying to leave everything open ended, we've been bogged down in semantics and tribalism anyway.
Edit : The sheer arrogance of presuming my entire basis for my thread is wrong based on some peoples _opinion_ on abortion/pro-choice is pretty dumbfounding, and i'm certainly not the bad guy here. |
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In summation, you agree with me. |
Re: I was wondering what you pro-abortionists thought of this
As per usual, you're nitpicking. I'm not suprised but you're not going anywhere. You're still trying to say i loaded the questions deliberately, when its pretty plain to see i already expected complaints about wording, and explained briefly my position so people could factor it in when making up their own opinions.
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Furthermore, your "explanation of position" just confirmed that you were in the expected demographic that would make such a claim. |
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(When i said OP i meant original post rather than original poster)
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Of course most of this has been said already and this thread has become your rant against people who prefer using the correct words instead of just using whichever ones seem to aid your point most. |
Re: I was wondering what you pro-abortionists thought of this
As I understand it, the pregnancy ratio, when untampered with is 100 female to 106 male pregnancy. This has to do, they believe, with the difference between the size and strength of the male as opposed to the female loaded sperm. Lighter and faster due to less genetic material to carry. However, in as much as
ph-balance in the mother at the time of conception is a major factor and the shell of the ova can also influence it, it is hard to tell exactly what causes it, it just is. I have been aware of this trend in Indian society for a number of years as I read one about fertility doctors in Canada who specialize in Indian families who aren't trying to be more fertile but who are trying to have male children and not female children. I read an article on this over ten years ago, I am sure. I do not feel myself in a position to pass judgement on others for wanting their families to be of a certain composition. The methods they choose however is a different quesstion. Abortion of a fetus within the first tri-mester is okay by me. Infanticide is not okay with me. Partial birth abortion for not medical emergency is not okay with me. Second tri-mester for cosmetic purposes, I am ambivilent about. Seems like a bad idea. However, who am I to say? Rape? Not a likely response to any perceived imbalance. Why not ask if homsexuality would be a likely result of too many men to women? |
Re: I was wondering what you pro-abortionists thought of this
A balanced society has equal numbers of black people and white people, so forced abortions aimed at reducing the birthrate of a certain race (coupled with denying abortions to people of the other race) is justified in order to restore equilibrium.
edit: I class myself as pro-abortion :cool: |
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T&F's post did discuss your questions as well as criticise your phrasing though. Aside from that most people responded to the questions and the thread evolved into a bit of a lesson concerning genetics and then you made some insane comment about most people attacking your bias which was just not true and then mark made a connected point concerning this issue and then I posted. Oh and I had a delightful little troll which got ignored about 20 posts in :(
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