Spelling equals intelligence?
 

II waz recentlly advized thaat Ii havee pour speling annd aas suchh I musst therrefore be stupidd. Obviouslyy thee authorr thoughtt thatt spellingg equaledd intelligents witch hass bothh argumints forr andd againssst.

Firsst lettuce deefine tha termss wee arre speakking of.

spell
v. spelled, or spelt (splt) spell·ing, spells
v. tr.
1. To name or write in order the letters constituting (a word or part of a word).
2. To constitute the letters of (a word): These letters spell animal.

Main Entry: in·tel·li·gence
Pronunciation: in-'tel-&-j&n(t)s
Function: noun
1 a : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations b : the ability to apply knowledge to manipulate one's environment or to think abstractly as measured by objective criteria (as tests)
2 : mental acuteness

mem·o·rize
tr.v. mem·o·rized, mem·o·riz·ing, mem·o·riz·es
1. To commit to memory; learn by heart.

By definition intelligence seems to be the ability to learn, understand, adapt, apply knowledge, abstract thinking, and mental acuteness.

Spelling seems to more a function of memory than intelligence. Of course you could argue that the application of memorized knowledge indicates intelligence but then any computer would be deemed as intelligent with that argument or for that matter a tree with carved initials would also be capable of memorizing the carved letter and is therefore intelligent.

The beggining of this thread was purposely mispelled just to show how inane and contentious people can be when it comes to english and grammar.

My argument is that spelling does not constitute a sign of intelligence but only the ability to memorize words and edit or use a suitable program to edit your work.

Intelligence still involves the ability to comprehend, evaluate, and respond. It would not be difficult to argue that anyone that believes incorrect spelling equals stupidity is in fact lacking the ability to reasonably evaluate the flaw within their own beliefs.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

While your argument might be true, most inteligent people like to see a well worded, well written, and well constructed argument. There is differences, there exists inteligent people with dyslexia, or who might not know a launguage firsthand. But from my experience, 99% of poor spellers are not particulary inteligent.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

There's an indication of a diminished mental capacity and acuity if you are unable to pick out gaping spelling errors in a piece of your own work. For example, most decent university professors will knock marks off for incorrect spelling and grammar on an exam or paper. It indicates complete unprofessionalism by the writer.

That not being the case, then chances are you have a complete disrespect of those you are talking to, in the sense that you do not deem them important enough to construct clear, concise, writing as mentioned earlier by snurx.

Btw.... the word 'beginning' does not have 3 g's in it. :p [/picky]

Edit: Beaten by T&F. Doh!

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

There is no such thing as intelligence. Quit believing in myths. There is an ocean between you and reality Travler, and you're in it, pedalling with your feet against the current.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Is there such a thing as beauty?

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

I believe in competence, measured by accomplishment. It is context specific and limited in time and state. Luck is always a factor. Intelligence, however is a joke. Beauty is personal, etc.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

syx years agoo I culd not spel teknishun but now I R one.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Now, computers can't spell worth shit. Even reasonably specialised software is still remarkably bad on figuring out if you just wrote the word you intended to or a completely different, but still valid, word. Spelling is more than stupid dictionary checking.

Besides, by your own definition intelligence is 'ability to learn'. Are you also arguing that spelling isn't learned, but rather magical knowledge that pops into your brain at convinient times?
A computer has perfect memory, and it can't spell.
If you think it wouldn't be hard to argue, could you please try?

Either way, If you tried arguing against causation, instead of just correlation I think you'd have a much easier time making a good case.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Being articulate and coherent helps on an internet forum

that's my only advice

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

I do agree with one thing, spelling is not a measurement of intelligence. Spelling is more a measure of ignorance. It seems that younger people have become worse at spelling over the last few years, and I don't think it has to do with intelligence, but rather ignorance of learning the proper way to spell even the most basic simple words. Perhaps teachers in grade and secondary schools are not caring about spelling so they aren't learning, or they're so used to internet chat and writing like shit and not caring whether or not it's right as long as they get there point across. This however is not a chat room, while it is still an informal medium, most of the people that read it are going to expect the post to be better thought out, with better grammar and spelling.

If nothing else, there is a spell check button, use it. It won't catch grammatical errors like putting 'now' instead of 'know', but it will catch words that don't have similar pronunciation with different spellings and meanings.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

You start out on the correct path, but then take a wrong turn leading to an erroneous conclusion.

Whilst one can indeed argue that the proper application of spelling and/or grammar is merely a function of memory and not intelligence, you overlook the simple fact that the acquisition of the knowledge stored inside memory, in fact is highly related to intelligence.

A more intelligent person will generally have an easier time acquiring knowledge, frequently accompanied by a greater desire to do so; someone who, for example, reads a lot, will likely have a larger vocabulary than someone who doesn't, with a direct relation between the level of difficulty of a text and the size of the vocabulary.

Additionally, I would dare to argue that applying the rules of spelling and grammar onto the thoughts inside your head in order to form a coherent text that conforms to the rules that have been accepted with regards to whatever language you are using, has quite a bit to do with intelligence, although more on a subconscious level. It'd however turn into a bit of a debate that still goes on between linguists though, as to how language is formed - whether the brain stores text patterns for simple retrieval when necessary, or whether it actually pulls a basic vocabulary through a series of operators.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

While this may only be an internet forum, which is of course a medium for communication based purely on a text format (as mentioned by T&F above), spelling and grammar should be perfected.

To make a small mistake is one thing, but to completely **** a written response in the ass, for example like neptis frequently does, is in my opinion unacceptable. You have spell check and other readers as forms of feedback. I feel that writers should have the respect and common courtesy to perfect their work, in this case a post, as much as possible for their readers, and even themselves.

If English is your native language then I feel that you have a duty to know your language to the best of your ability. It is your primary form of communication, and to not excel at something you do every day (communicate in English) is to demonstrate ignorance, a lack of respect for those around you, a lack of self respect, and it also deteriorates your image to others.

If English is not your native language, I think that to make errors can be expected and forgiven, for you have proved that you are dedicated to the learning of another form of communication. You have made an effort to learn, adapt, speak, read, write, and understand another language and this I think shows dedication and responsibility. You will be respected more by your peers for trying and making mistakes, rather than not trying at all. Even worse still, is the native speaker who has not mastered his own art.

People that cannot communicate in the generally accepted ways are considered ignorant, or different, and are usually shunned by the majority of people. I agree that a lack of spelling and grammar skills does not reflect intelligence, but I also wholeheartedly agree with jt25man when he said that it is a measure of ignorance.

How can you hope to be successful in today’s society when you cannot communicate in an accepted fashion? Such a thing cannot exist.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Don't take things on the internet so seriously.

Have a thicker skin.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Yes, I think "intelligent" people certainly used to read more, generally got higher education etc, and thus ended up with generally superior writing skills. I am however very uncertain if this still holds, as IM, chatting and the web has made written communication much, much more common for the vast majority of people. Addionally, in my experience, the ability pick up new languages does not seem to correleated with math/physics skills at all. In fact, they almost seem to be inversely correleated. Obviously, we're running into the problem of intelligence being a hopeless term, pretty much unusable for any serious discussion.

Also, look at the endless stream of mediocrazy that's streaming out of "journalist"-schools. Endless piles of stupid people wanting to run around taking pictures, all capable of writing relatively eloquently, but apparantly incapable of any logical thought whatsoever. I really do think the link between intelligence and spelling is overrated. Partially because it's very self-fulfilling; we assume bad spellers are stupid, and hey, suddenly 9/10 of the stupid people we've met are bad spellers, so obviously it must be true!

Travlers starting point was having gotten a reg-nep stating he's a bad speller, and therefore he's stupid.. and I think Travler is quite right in arguing against that statement. Just too bad he got a little lost on the way, the poor soul.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Where are the 40 irrefutable proofs?

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

It's all about oneliners, twoliners and eyeliners

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

but he is stupid though.

no kindness on your part (and no sympathy for your kindness on my part) will change that.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Ah Yahwhe, always the same comment on every post. Nice to know your vocabulary is still limited.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Quite right, My off tangent point was that even an inanimate object such as a computer could spell correctly given a specific set of circumstances. To be honest I usually don't run my posts through a spell checker in the interest of time. The funny thing is often people around me ask me for the spelling of a word and I consider myself a poor at spelling.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

I usually, but not always give the google toolbar spellcheck button a click. It's pretty fast and convenient. And to be honest, I guess you and I are agreeing here, spelling does not equal being innately better than someone , but as others have said, there's something about courtesy involved in making your posts readable. The casual misspelling wont put anyone off though.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

So in truth its not that I am stupid but really just an inconsiderate bastard.

My know-it-all wife is right again.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

My memory is absolutely atrocious and my spelling is fine.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

and to think you call yourself nondescript!

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

As has been pointed out, the vast majority of poor spellers are, in fact, slow of the brain,

as has also been pointed out, activities which intelligent people tend to enjoy lead toward better spelling,

further previously pointed out, if you choose to use a written medium to communicate, use of proper spelling and appropriate grammar is simply common courtesy,

but not emphasized has been the fact that intelligent people, upon hearing a new word, are much more likely to guess the correct spelling (vs. the other category of people). If your problem with spelling is that it is purely an issue of rote memorization, your real problem is likely that you lack intelligence.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

There is differences,
Surely there "ARE" differences Snurx. That was the way I was taught English :)
Correct me if I`m wrong GD?

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

While true for the majority there are many people that are intelligent yet lack the ability to properly spell.
Applies to the majority but is by no mean conclusive for everyone.
True, taking the time to spell check by some means indicates a level of consideration.
The thing many of you are overlooking is that we are not all the same nor do we think in the same ways. Math is easy for one person but not the next. Why would spelling be any different? Some people are awesome at spelling and it boggles the mind as to how they do it yet these same spellers may find trouble debating politics, semantics, or religion.

If you have trouble with this point please first find two or more brainwave patterns from 2 or more inviduals that are identical (excluding twins, triplets, ect.) and then we can debate that people should be thinking in the same ways.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

The inability to construct sentences in your native language is not exactly an indication of intelligence

nobody denied that there are stupid people.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

I sometimes resort to calling people 'stupid.' But I don't believe it has anything to do with some nonexistent characteristic called intelligence. More than likely it is a combination of ignorance, stubborness, intractable laziness of the mind, a different way of thinking about things, different priorities, psychological deviance, and more.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

the ability to think in an ordered and rational process is integral to intelligence.

so an intelligent person would see that "a combination of ignorance, stubborness, intractable laziness of the mind, a different way of thinking about things, different priorities, psychological deviance, and more" must equal idiocy. Therefore the combinations of the opposite characteristics must equal intelligent.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

could you give an actual reason why your 'alternative perspective' is the right one and the perspective shared by the other 6 billion 'tractable, flexible, and well-informed' entities on the earth is wrong?

i'm honestly curious.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Hogwash!!!

That’s just being methodical in your thought processes. Not every mind processes information in what could be subjectively called an ordered or rational way.

Please see where I have already provided a definition for intelligence at the beginning of this thread.

And thanks again for using your favorite word “Stupid” in another post. Your mommy and therapist must be really proud of you.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

My logic tells me that a definition of intelligence which includes the way which all minds work is fundamentally flawed as it precludes the existance of stupidity.

It also tells me that you do not understand the word subjective.

Statistics alone should have told you that you that you were ill equiped to understand my point (or your own; or how they inter-relate).

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

quazok please leave me out of this. I do not appreciate my name being used in arguments without my permission even then i do not like it
so i will ask once nicely please me out of it .

neptis

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

You are just miffed because I did not supply a definition of your favorite word. Well here you go. Enjoy. :)

stu·pid ( P ) Pronunciation Key (stpd, sty-)
adj. stu·pid·er, stu·pid·est
1. Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
2. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
3. Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.
4. Dazed, stunned, or stupefied.
5. Pointless; worthless: a stupid job.

sub·jec·tive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sb-jktv)
adj.

1. a. Proceeding from or taking place in a person's mind rather than the external world: a subjective decision.
b. Particular to a given person; personal: subjective experience.
2. Moodily introspective.
3. Existing only in the mind; illusory.
4. Psychology. Existing only within the experiencer's mind.
5. Medicine. Of, relating to, or designating a symptom or condition perceived by the patient and not by the examiner.
6. Expressing or bringing into prominence the individuality of the artist or author.
7. Grammar. Relating to or being the nominative case.
8. Relating to the real nature of something; essential.

I though that subjective meant that it was a personal viewpoint. So again ordered is subjective because what one person thinks is in order another may not. Rational by whose definition? Ordered and rational will always be subjective unless pre-defined for a specific purpose, cause, or event.

What statistics? Do you mean that there is a compendium of statistics regarding your subjective feelings over whether or not I understood your post? Exactly what planet are you on? You need to stop thinking that what you say is therefore necessarily true.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Ask a grown up to help you before you use scissors.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Oi :(

The three years I did English as a subject in school, I got 3 6's (oral) and one 1, 2, and 4 (written). (for all you non Norsk, 6 is best while 1 is failed)

I got some errors that I almost always do. I write with whit, for instance, and have to correct it every time. I've tried and tried to fix it, but I just can't. Also, as you pointed out, I have troubles with is and are. Also, I write too much like I speak, so there are alot of , and bad sentences

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Unless you're changing into Carmen Electra. In that case full moderator permission status granted.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Another fine example to point by neptis. He starts his paragraph without capitalizing the first letter of the sentence, his spelling is much better, so he either started using spell check, or stopped being lazy. He uses a period at the end of the first sentence. The second sentence starts out with a capital 'I', very good spelling up until he uses the lower case 'i', and finishes off without punctuation. I don't know if the next line is either a continuation of the previous, a new paragraph or what, but no capitalized first letter, didn't capitalize the 'i' again, and uses punctuation, even if he does make a slight error of the space before it.

This is probably by far the best post I've seen by him, so the question isn't whether or not he is more intelligent, the question is what brought about the change. Is he less ignorant now because of being bashed about his poor spelling and he finally decided to go about figuring out tools to make it look better; has he stopped being as lazy and careless with his spelling; or has he stopped treating the forum like a chat room and realized he can't get away with the far less formal stylization that is common and acceptable?

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Why? You still will not be able to tell the difference.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Either something follows logic or it does not. Whether an argument is rational or not is a logical analysis; whether the axioms on which the construct is based are accurate are another matter entirely.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

U hit it right on da noze my freind. I have horrible spelling ethics in chat/freehand writing. But I do find that when I chat with my moms I am careful of my spelling.
If a person is submitting misspelled term papers in College, yes, I agree this person lacks intelligence, but not in a knowledge sense, but in a sense that he/she/it doesn't know how to spell check thier work or use a dictionary.




*smart people, unite (a lot)

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

6 billion people do not agree with you. There's an ongoing debate about the topic among evolutionary biologists, anthropologists, psychologists, and sociologists. Again, I know I am sounding like a broken record here, but it is true, not every culture has the same concept of 'intelligence'. In fact, not every individual within the same culture has the same ideas about what is or isn't intelligence. You can not measure it, for one (IQ tests measure social status competence and knowledge), and you can not get people who study the thing to even agree to a definition of what the word means or what traits exhibit it.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

If that is true then why are most of us quick to point out what is not intelligent?

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Because most of us talk about things we really know very little about.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

dam I relise whair I went wrong now with the i's. Thay should have been I's
thanks for that
I was aculy quit ofended by being bashed about on this forum. I have always had the tools I was in italy on the hotel computer that had nun of the tools I neaded for it . Thats why it was so bad

I was never lazy
i have NEVER treated the forum as a stupid chat room. If I did then how could I be a mod on anuther site ?

neptis

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

I agree with all of this. I still however think the word intelligence has some meaning in lay terms (i.e. informal conversation). The idea it can be studied scientifically is fairly ridiculous, but that's not what we're doing here (as far as I can see).

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

Instead of pointing out the errors this time, I'll just go with - Hukked on fonix wherked four me.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

In its colloquial use, the word stinks of biological determinism, racism, and bigotry. Using it for me is tantamount to tacitly accepting and approving of the other's misconceived world view. Something that is unacceptable for me. Obviously hateful words like 'fag', 'nig*er', etc are not nearly as dangerous as words commonly accepted to be of appropriate use in discussion and fair representation of ideas, but in reality are enablers of hate and ignorance.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

I assume you find the word 'rational' offensive given your dedication to not being it.

Re: Spelling equals intelligence?
 

I assume you find the word 'fat' offensive given your your physical condition. Also you have poor posture.