The Scientific Proof of Life After Death
Ok, on another forum* there is a religious debate going on and someone has just posted links that he claims "prove" that there is life after death...
I really don't know what to make of it. It seems to be some crackpot writings about conspiracy theories and quantum physics... I thought GD might be able to explain it to me, and indulge in an interesting discussion about it at the same time as I'm quite confused about it. Link to page 1 of 4 (links to other pages are at the bottom of the page) I thought I'd look around to see if there was anything else that would 'explain' but all I found was this on a Crank site *no not PB, there is a religion debate there but it's not as advanced as this one on another another forum. |
Re: The Scientific Proof of Life After Death
Paging Jakiri to thread 193446.
From a read through Part 1 it doesn't look well-founded, but I'll let a physicist expose it all. |
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It's bollocks. Standard misdirection, in both what it says and how it says it.
It continually claims that we have evidence - but it never says what it is. It claims that we have experiments to find it - and doesn't say what they are. It claims it has supporters - but never gives more than vague quotes as to what they said. It claims that we have the mathematics to support their claims - but not a single mathematical statement appears. The one "experimental result" that is quoted is one that is described without methodology, control or context, and at face value is something that can anyone can easily do utterly cold on any audience, simply because people choose to give vague statements greater meanings which can be built upon, or because the brain is designed to make faces or patterns out of the loosest information. What it does go in to detail on is why, once they have evidence, they're more likely to be correct, and the amazing histories of the people who it claims support or studied these supposed phenomena, although even if these are true, more learned people than they have been more incorrect before. As in mathematics, without the argument, the source is meaningless - argument from authority is a logical fallacy for a reason. They say that this information is "suppressed" - although they do not say by whom, or how. They mention "big names" - Carl Sagan, Albert Einstein, Richard Feynman - who have only the most passing of tangential relationships to what is being said, in order to give what is said more weight. They use false examples, like the Flat Earth one, to generalise from. Furthermore, they seem to engage in deliberate obfuscation, with a good example being the apparant inability to break up the walls of text which would, if they had anything to say, contain their main arguments. Balls, the lot of it. |
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For future reference, a site is guaranteed to be quackery if they start out with how the information has been suppressed by some conspiracy, doubly so if it's a faceless conspiracy that makes no sense. Leaving aside why atheists (which, let us not forget, are synonymous with Scientific Conspiracy) would suppress anything like this, why would religion?
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From a none technical view, it really is hard to argue wrather there is life after death or not. The only fact is that people have been revived after their hearts stopped beating. That raises the question of exactly where were these people during the time that they were "dead"? I think thats the heart of the issue really. The whole discussion about life after death as a whole always carries over into a religious discussion.
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I dont think it is possible to die.
Think about it, everytime you are close to death, something seems to happen which stops you from dying..... |
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It also claims that Einstein's Relativity was "a mistake" when compared to Newton's. It suggests that the incompatability between it and the Standard Model is anything but an artifact of the way they have been modelled. God. Every time I glance at the site, I'm reminded of more nonsense that they claim.
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ARGUMENT OVER! |
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Paging a random God -fanboy to the threat to come with the common circular logic claim of "there is no evidence of there not being life after death".
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Where is the evidence that you can die?
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Edit: Just when you think it can't get any worse. Quote:
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BTW - thanks Mark for having a read through it.
All I could spot was random quotes from university graduates and "omg it's all a big conspiracy" stuff. |
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I'm not suggesting you kill yourself.
My point was, where is the evidence that you, as an individual can die? Others may die around you, but they are not you. Quote:
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Tell ya what, why don't you do a scientific experiment for us, if you commit suicide then come back to life, you can post on here and tell us if you were right.
Edit: I'm not supporting suicide btw., just throwing it out as a suggestion to end debate. |
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Hopefully life after death is much like my reading of that site.
Brief. |
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Incidentally ste if you want to post some counter-points or something you could question William Crooke's experiments which apparently are called repeatable by that site but were conducted at his house with selected individuals who it is impossible to verify objectively as psychics which becomes appallingly circular.
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I can't be bothered to go into it now, there's no evidence for what I think, therefore it's not worth mentioning. It's just a thought and it's developing. Quote:
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Of course you can die. You just aren't likely to care about it very much when you're dead. |
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I dont know, Ive been lucky so far - I have almost died loads of times, yet Im still here to talk about it....
strange dont you think? |
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It is true of everyone that they do not die until they do. This is not some major philosophical breakthrough.
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I hope for ste's sake he didn't look up the anthropic principle on wikipedia because that page is just murder.
I've always preferred to reduce things to the statement "how unsurprising that my observing of the universe is contingent on my existence within it". |
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I looked. There's FAP and CRAP there.
edit. the SAP wasn't as convincing. |
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It looks like you're arguing that the world revolves around you - "other people die but I am alive and the world will cease to exist if I die"
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EDIT and yeh i did look at the wiki page :( |
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Weak Anthropic Principle
Q: Why does the universe exist? A: Well, what else would you expect to observe? Strong Anthropic Principle Q: Why does the universe support life? A: Right, so you'd be dead, then? I've always liked that formulation. Trite explanations are wonderful things. |
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You're dead when there is no brain activity (at all), so therefore you can't perform any automatic functions such as breathing or circulating blood. |
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It's impossible to prove whether there is life after death or not
The lack of proof would suggest that there isn't but that isn't really the reason why I don't believe in life after death I've seen people who were litterly not more then animals in their behaviour and people living in constant pain in nursing homes It's safe to say that your brain limits your spirit, maybe to such an extend that it is the same it's also obvious that no higher force is looking after those people Ofcourse that doesn't has to mean their is no such thing as an afterlife, but it did give me that impression as religion and the idea of an afterlife are highly intertwined Quote:
The thing is that a brain quickly deteriorates in such a state so the chance to activate it again is very slim and the chances of the person having mental problems afterwards is very high Besides the failing godpart of most afterlife theories the idea of an afterlife raises the following questions: Your body self-destructs and it get's recycled again.. Organic tissue will stay here on earth So where would all the new souls from babies come from if they arn't organic? Are they being created by organic beings? Is a brain a soul catching shell? It seems very far fetched And what's the case with animals, they do think like us but according to most religions (where the idea of an afterlife comes from) most animals have no place in the afterlife The answers seem fairly obvious to me Believers of an afterlife believe in speculations which are limited by our own imagination It's possible to raise a hundred questions about the afterlife, and maybe even answer them all you can make the universe as complicated as you want.. but that doesn't makes it more true |
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'ste thread'
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Or should I not bother? |
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Yahwe only tolerates posters that meet up to his standards, anyone else (read 95%) should stop posting and learn from his highness. I seriously believe the forums would have more active users without him and a couple of his followers. Maybe the quality would've been less according to his standards but there would've been more people still around here and more people having fun reading their posts. |
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I'll admit to liking Yahwe, but I'm hardly a follower of anything except pastafarianism :(
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As Jakiri said though - who are these followers supposed to be? |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster |
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I couldn't be bothered to read too much of that site. Any text that spends that long on convincing the reader that what follows is The Truth, and The Truth normally indicates bullshit.
The part I did read which basically, as far as I could tell, states there are frequencies/elements we cannot see - radio waves, atoms etc. - and so life could continue in a currently invisible frequency/whatever is interesting at least. I wouldn't rule it out. I'm quite sure the scientific world will at some point discover something that backs up an after-life - more of a continuation of life beyond physicality and intellect - and in the knowledge that that discovery has yet to be been made I remain blissfully indifferent to rants such as this. Even if it has been made it's not really going to affect me, not now at least, so why care so much. |
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Why are you "quite sure"?
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Progression. I'm no soothsayer though.
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Progression towards random unsupported statements?
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No-one knew atoms existed. So my belief is that at some point someone will discover the continuation of a person's conscious, in the same way atoms continue after your body gives in. I don't believe your physicality or intellect will survive though. Yes, it's a belief in scientific progress in the same way people believe in God, Allah and Buddha.
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