Jesus rejected for Christmas
It seems that Jesus is not wanted at Christmas anymore. This article highlights how far removed Jesus has become during Christmas time.
To the people at Toys for Tots I have the following to say. Why not separate the gifts by holiday so that the Christian kids get Christmas gifts while the other kids get gifts that correspond to their specific holidays. |
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delete thread ban user
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to be fair jesus did steal christmas from Sol Invictus.
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It's funny how Christmas is supposed to be the celebration of Jesus' birth, yet there's no real evidence of the actual day he was born, they just threw a dart at a calender or something and said "December 25th...sounds good to us."
If Travler hasn't realized, Christmas hasn't been about celebrating Jesus birth for a few hundred years (outside religious groups, and even then it's sparse and most people only go to one service), it's mostly now a days about giving each other gifts, pigging out on Christmas dinner, and helping out the economy for the last month of the year by spending lots of money to get people things they don't really need. |
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To echo what yahwe said, the 25th December was never explicitly mentioned in the bible, even accepting any changes and development in the types of calender used there wasn't afaik any recurring celestial observations to tie into the time of his birth. The time Christmas is celebrated on was taken from the beliefs that preceded christianity; which just goes to show you can take god to the people but they feel mighty odd if you **** up tradition. They celebrated at that time, they just changed what they celebrated.
Far from avoiding christians they're just accepting the ambiguity of the date and letting people do what they want. Oh and because its government related and so can't advocate one religion over another, but we'll ignore that. |
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Toys for Tots is a not-for-profit public charity originally founded by the US Marine Corps Reserve. They undoubtably have to bend over backwards to be non-religious insofar as much of their work is done by marine reservists who are nominally government employees (even though they volunteer to work on Toys for Tots for no pay on their own time). Instead of criticizing non-religious charities for being non-religious, why don't you support Christian charities (e.g., The Salvation Army)? |
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Jesus, Josua bar Joseph, has always had very little to do with Christmas; even after we accept that the Empire swapped Sol Invictus for christ. |
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Humans are animals and winter is pretty bloody awful |
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Did the Christians just not pick significant days of Pagan celebration to make events in their New Testament easier for the Britain’s to remember?
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Jesus was actually born in march I believe, saw it on some cable channel. Oh and btw why was the first reply posted some guy saying delete thread ban user, seems a bit crap?
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A talking Jesus doll that quotes Bible verses?
Maybe the Marines turned the dolls down because they did not want 4000 children to grow up with an unreasoning hatred for the USMC based on the unbelievably wankerish* present they got as a child. "Did I get the Hot Wheels play set? Or the Bratz play house? No, I got a talking Jesus doll, and when I press his back he keeps telling me not to worship graven images." Besides, you KNOW that within an hour Jesus would be naked and lying on top of 'secular harlot Barbie' (a popular toy south of the Mason-Dixon line). * yes, its a word. |
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its true .. the pagan dates were used for the christian days of worship...
they also built chruches on pagan ritual sites... why ... to encourage the pagans to come to and celebrate the christian holy days and the christian god, not daft those early christian priests. basic math makes jesus born well after december .. seeing as mary was sat in the shelter of an olive tree, .. it had leaves and olives on it, so that makes it either summer or autumn .. add 9 months .. not december . |
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I continually fail to understand why people respond to Travler's posts, since he invariably fails to follow-up on any points made, and even when he does decide to reply, it's to further whatever motive made him create the thread in the first place, rather than reply to follow-on posts.
It's like trolling without actually knowing what trolling is. |
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You're a mod aren't you old man? You can save us from the evil one! |
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I always thinks of trolling like when you go fishing in a boat and you use the trolling motor to go real slow so as not to disturb the fish. I get the feeling it's different on the forums. Dee Dee Dee. |
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My main problem with Toys for Tots is that the toys were free and they rejected it. If I personally buy a Jesus Doll and take it to a Toys for Tots donation site will they also reject me? Why do they even bother to collect and donate toys at this time of year if they reject religious based toys? Why not have this program around the 4th of July which is a national holiday in the USA? I feel so strongly about this I have addressed my concerns directly to the Toys for Tots organization. I will follow up if I recieve a response. |
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this is not a religious program nor is it a religious organisation. to suggest doing at any other time of the year is to completely miss the point of the whole exercise of good-will to all men (and women). Quote:
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I don't blame them for turning down those highly tacky promotional peices.
And please tell me how christians can get up in arms about every little thing yet find it alright to have tacky toys made of the person they consider 'the son of god'. And anyway as others have said Christmas isnt really a Christian holiday, the christians hijacked it. Not that its a bad thing as its helped give the holiday a more marketable face so it rose above any religious basis to become a holiday about family and friends and the act of giving to and being kind to others. It doesnt matter what race or religion you are its a holiday you can celebrate and enjoy and christians complaing about the 'jesus' factor being forgetten should just shut up and celebrate in the way they want to and stop worrying about how others are |
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This is Travler reporting from the front lines of the war on Christmas !
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It's funny that people speak with remorse at how 'commercial' christmas has become in the modern day & age, but I say it was always a commercial venture from the beginning and the only thing that has changed is the currency.
There are too many variations on just how christmas came about for me to accept any one answer, however the one thing that is very clear is the holiday was never meant with pure intent. If I take Wakey's version for example then the commercial gain was an investment in more souls for their religion and with it more power or hold over the people. Dress it up how ever you like, I still do not believe there is any pure intent behind christmas. This whole giving and goodwill thing is a farce, we all have our own reasons for celebrating christmas and something to gain from it. I sometimes like to test the moral fibre of family and friends by not giving or accepting any gifts on christmas. When they look at me with stupor that I have not laden them with extravagant gifts I simply say 'My gift to you is love, Merry Christmas!'. |
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Its easy to label commercialism and self intrest as 'bad' things but its not as simple as that. Most 'acts of good' have some kind of personal gain at the centre of it.
At christmas for example
Its like above when someone comments that the donation of the Jesus dols was for the tax breaks. Alot of companies do such things as it has a finacial benifit to them. That doesnt mean the donation doesnt help someone. Christianity made the holiday more marketable, the better marketability meant that firms could make money off it so promoted it and this promotion opened the holiday up to more people inturn having the positive effects of people being more charitable, giving and getting famailies together |
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What are these other versions? |
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The most vulnerable members of society need religion and help more than anyone else. If they become believers thats great. If not then God bless them. But helping the disadvantaged is exactly what Jesus wants us to do. Gaining members has is both a good thing and a challenge for a church. One the one hand more people mean more money and more hands to do stuff. On the other hand more people means that larger buildings are needed or more services and more people to run things. |
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Nevertheless, a quick Wikipedia search told me that a good majority of these charities are secular. |
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Surely if the bibles to be believed then ‘Jesus’ also wanted us to also be tolerant of others lifestyles and actions did he not. After all the bible goes to great lengths to show him hanging around with whores and other ‘unpleasant’ characters and showing them forgiveness and understanding but that doesn’t stop Christians being some of the most intolerant, quick to judge, bigoted people on this planet. I just wish people like you would stop with all this “WWJD” type crap because the ‘Jesus’ that the bible talks about bears no resemblance to the ‘followers’ that your religion churns out. If the church is going to preach about how we should live our lives then they should first get their house in order and actual act in a way that is more like the way ‘Jesus’ lived rather than ignore the parts that tell us we should live in a tolerant and open minded manner just because it undermines the church’s ability to brainwash and control their congregation. If there is a god, unless he is some kind of megalomaniac I bet he’s completely embarrassed to see those following organised religion acting in the brain dead, bigoted manner that they do especially when it’s being done in his name. After all if he did create us he made us all the way we are be it black or white, male or female, straight or gay and he also gave us the ability to be free thinking. This means if you attack others for how they are or attack people for their choices then your attacking the very person you worship as it was of ‘god’ doing. Anyway if religious groups want to start charities then good for them and it should be encouraged but charities are there to help people and at no point should they start being preached to and attempted to be converted. If they want religion there are enough churches they can walk into without people taking advantage of their situation to bring them into your ‘cult’ |
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When religion is used to help people, then power to it. When religion is used to blackmail the less fortnate into belief, then it is by definition, evil. Quote:
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Jesus replied, "What is impossible with men is possible with God." I did not receive a personal response but the following is from http://www.toysfortots.org/ Quote:
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What you have witnessed is the power of the mob and the power of capitalism. Is your god so utterly devoid of beauty? Is he such a wordly god that he must play in the filth of human politics? Is he such a pretend god that he needs you to protect him? |
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Call me a romantic, but to me the 'Power of God' would be more, I don't know, God helping starving and loney children with food, shelter and good health. Not so much God (through the power of several hundred psudo-indignant emails) making sure 1000 children get a talking Jesus doll which spouts Bible verses. Then again, perhaps it is God being good to his family, after all, it is illegal to make a direct representation of someone without violating copyright laws, so Jesus must be getting some sort of kickback for every doll sold. Maybe It's just God trying to help his son out a bit now that the carpentry business is fallen through... Hey, you abandoned the other thread, you still not believe in random chance? |
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For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them. Don't discount the little miracles. God works in our lives in all things not just the great and the grand. I'm just glad this one little prayer of mine was answered. |
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that you think God would bother with this when millions of people are starving to death just cause you asked nicely shows signs of dementia. |
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Why did you need to pray? I mean, if its God, surely he knew what was in your mind and decided to do it or not do it based on its own merits. Where does 'prayer' enter into it? Or does god do things for people, not based on the goodness of evil of the act or the asker, but based on how much people praise his name? Aren't pride, arrogance and greed sins? Doesn't the necessity of prayer make God evil? If there is one thing I adore about fundamentalist Christians, it is that whenever anything goes their way, its God's work, and whenever anything evil hppens, it has nothing to do with God. When your delusion is so self-reinforcing that reality simply connot penetrate, then you can use it to justify anything. Such as the litany of human atrocity over the last few thousand years performed by 'pious' men entirely in the name of 'God'. |
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