Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

I think the actual question you're asking is flawed - as it leads people to focus on the MEANS by which spying occurs rather than on the spying itself. Relaying is just a more efficient way of having a spy report on what happens in someone else's channel - as such it's moral validity is no different to the morality of having spies in the first place.

Put simply: if having a spy in another alliance report to you is acceptable (morally, ethically or as far as the game rules are concerned) then relaying the channel is also acceptable. The acceptability of a course of action isn't determined by how efficiently you do it. Or is it the case that those arguing that relaying is wrong believe that manually copying/pasting from a channel is acceptable but somehow using a script to do it makes it unacceptable?

Any focus on the ethics of it also needs to distinguish between the ethics of the person doing the relaying - and the ethics of the alliance leadership receiving the relay. It is entirely possible to argue a case that in some instances the relayer is ethically challenged whereas there is no such issue with the alliance receiving the relay.

There are also two types of spies (an issue Mazz referred to earlier). There's the dedicated spies - who enter the target alliance purely to assist the alliance they work for - and then there's the sell-outs (who usually offer to relay in return for a planet nap). Personally I've always tried to minimise any dealings with the second category - as they're unreliable and have already demonstrated their untrustworthiness.

Spies have, in my opinion, been an acceptable part of PA since very early on. Aside from the fact that it would be impossible to prevent or legislate against spying I believe it to be an integral part of the game. Spying definitely isn't against the rules of the game - hence spying can't, itself, be cheating.

Is spying ethical? Well PA is (or is supposed to be) a war game. Is war ethical? The entire game is designed for players to carry out actions which would be considered unethical in the real world - hence the total stupidity of the RL reference by an earlier poster. Is it ethical to attack other players and steal their roids/ships just out of greed? Is it ethical to attack others just because their fleet setup compared to your own makes it profitable to do so? The whole "ethics" issue has been grossly misinterpreted by many of the posters in this thread.

The only place I see any possible "ethical" failing is where someone in an alliance betrays that alliance for THEIR OWN personal benefit - i.e. the turn-coat type of spy. And whether that's unethical or not would depend on whether you viewed PA a primarily a team game or a solo game. Alliances spying on other alliances is an acceptable tactic - and hence real world "ethics" have no relevance in this GAME.

And as relaying is just a more efficient means of manual copy/paste spying all of the same conclusons about its morality apply.

I would note that hacking into an irc network (including stealing someone else's P password) is an entirely seperate issue. Not only is the ethics of that dubious it's also a criminal offence in many countries (including the UK). Similarly, using someone else's P identity (even with their permission) MAY, depending on the circumstances, be a criminal act. And of course any criminal act is certain to be defined as cheating by PA team.



EDIT: For the tl;dr crowd
CN: The ethics of an action in the game can only be judged within the ethical framework of the game itself - not by trying to apply RL ethics to one element of the game taken in isolation. Accordingly, in a game where the entire premise of the game is warfare - and where information is a commodity - spying is an entirely legitmate and acceptable activity. Relaying is just a means of spying and so is also perfectly fine.

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

It isnt any more pathetic than playing this game in the first place or posting on these forums.

Spying and relaying are completely appropriate in a war game. I often wonder why some people play a war game and then whine when people use ruthless tactics. In a game based on killing and stealing, spying is hardly low.

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

Yes, there's a lot of people that seriously need to get a real life.

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

well earlier ppl actually was mainly working for and with the allie they was in. now every twat and his m8 spies on their allie to give info the an other one. so if you cant trust your m8s or in this matter you can actually count on that all info are leaked so...

allies are about to die and with them ofc the game :)

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

Allies were spying on each other since round one. Your point doesn't follow.

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

Every one has a life, why do you say they need to get a real life? They have to get a life like you say they must have? Everyone has a other definition of life and so do you. If people want to sit 24/7 behind there computer who are you to tell them not to do that, its there life isnt it?

I play alot of game, should i get a real life to then? I have a life, go to college have friends, family but there is no one on the internet that could check if what i say is true. I love playing games, and im not the only one i am sure.

For example 6 million people play WoW im sure 100.000 people play more then 100-150 hours a week, should they all get a real life? They have a life else they would be dead dont you think.

Its in our nature to be stronger then someone else, in some cases this means doing stuff you guys are talking about. In WW2 do you think they didnt do stuff like that? Spying, militia, every change of information can win a battle so why not use it in this game when information is on IRC to grasp.

Always the same every where, people like to be fair and unfair. At work people suck up to the boss to get better jobs, at school people cheat to pass the test.

My point is, life is fair and unfair. What you think of life is something else someone else thinks about life. People died to get even the smallest information, information in a strategie game makes that one little advantedge of winning a battle.

This is just my opinion. Keep it cool ;)

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

Alliance channel relaying is a load of fun, but pretty pointless really unless it's command channels, as all (decent) alliances work on the assumption they have spies in their member channels anyway (a kind of pre-emptive damage limitation), which means there is rarely anything of real value in the alliance channel anyway.

If an alliance knows it's channel is being relayed, then that alliance can have a great deal of fun also. The whole information/misinformation scenario gives more depth and interest to the social side of the game, which is the part that has kept the game going. From an honest, honour-bound gentlemans point of view, relaying is probably immoral, but how many honest, honour-bound gentlemen would play a war-game for the (let's face it: sadistic) fun of it. Ultimately, it makes the game more interesting and adds a dimension that doesn't rely on having the most active members, the most fleets or the most experience. Surely, this can only be a good thing from the perspective of making the game more interesting.

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

i like knowing when to launch my co.

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

Sitting in front of a computer 24/7 may be a life choice, but how does it benefit society to have a bunch of people who's only contribution is that their good at online games.
If this is true about college and friends, then you have a real life, so what do you care?
Absolutely, they need to get a real life if they spend 100 hours on WoW in a week. I'm addicted to that game, but I limit myself to about 2-3 hours a day, and not even every day. I doubt many pull off 150 given that there's only 168 hours in a week leaving them with 18 for sleeping (that's a little over 2 hours a night).
What does spying during WW2 have to do with Planetarion tactics? Spying in an actual real life war is much more serious and deadly than spying on an internet game who half the people do it just for fun.
So are you saying that it's fair to cheat on a test to pass it? I've always considered that immoral and the people who feel the need to cheat to pass a test seriously need to get a swift kick in the ass.
As far as I know, not one person has died trying to get information or spying during Planetarion. Comparing people who've died in real battles to people spying on an internet game in my opinion is insulting to those who did actually die in real life.

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

You spend alot of time posting and playing a game to claim you have a so called life, basically stop playing the 'i have a life' trump card because noone really gives a ****

Your preeching to a crowd that really doesnt care. ty <3

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

what kind of deep bowels of your coherency this marvel came from ?

i am failing to see any sence in this statement more so (if at all possible) then any other post by any one poster in the history of me browsing AD, GD, PD, etc...

Jeesus :o

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

This thread is silly.

Of course it's okay. I hate it if my members do it ofcourse but then what sane person would like their channel to be relayed?

End thread.

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

Aparently you've never read your own post before.

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

I wasn't trying to compare WW2 with planetarion, i was talking about people doing crazy things to get what they want. Thats how the world is and i don't think that will ever change. No matter what people will always try to "cheat" if you like to call it that way. For some people relaying is fun for them, for some people this game is serious. What i care and don't care who cares. I just wanted to give my opinion. Not saying people should do it but there is no stopping them.

Cheating on a exam doesn't benifit the cheater but who cares. Like anyone cares what someone else does. I don't care I don't care thats what people say and only they know if they really mean it.

How can society benifit of anything if people don't even care about one another?

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

Horn is for serious a internett champion :cool:

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

he voted for bush????????????????
edit: wait vs gore or kerry, if kerry it's at least vaguely understandable

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

how so ?

Given, Kerry is a puts and COULD have been a shit prez...

but... we KNEW bush is a shit prez (and it couldnt get much worse...)

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

Being in relayed channels is all a part of pa life. Being the one who relays the channel, is all part of being a low-life.

Re: Relaying Alliance Channels - is it ok?
 

I've seen far worse posts on AD, at least I put thought into mine. I'm sorry, I forgot to post on AD you have to give up reason, logic, and sanity...next time before I post on AD I'll clunk myself in the head with a hammer a few times.

If you didn't notice, I said in the previous post it was my opinion, which means that I don't care if you agree or not.